skyrider

Time and time again, posters come forward to admit being naive, or childlike, or gullible to being drawn into twi's web of deception. And, so often........it's really embarrassing to admit that some of us STAYED SO LONG. Sure, I had (and have) free will.......and could have walked away at any time. But I submit that.... EVEN AT TWI'S ADVANCED CLASS THE PROGRAMMING STARTED. I mean, sure I was kinda hyped to hear this "deeper knowledge" and had been preparing all year to sit in this advanced class............but, stuff on the illuminati, the myth of the six million, the 13th tribe, the babylon mystery revealed, seeing and fixated on a devil spirit world, etc.........had a unique way of programming my inner conscious with deep-seated fears. The Advanced Class was "the gate of acceptance".....NOW I had arrived and was counted "faithfully competing the pfal series"........fully instructed, ya know........ready to kick the devil in the azz and all that. So, obviously when the suggestions of GO WOW.......GROW 10 YEARS IN 1.......these manipulative suggestions were enough to influence my young mind and disregard all else. EVEN BACK THEN..............I stepped back and wondered WHY IS THIS ADVANCED CLASS FILLED WITH SUCH "DARKNESS" AND MAGNIFYING THE DEVIL'S HANDYWORK???........In my little mind, I was fixated on the scripture that ".....greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world." And, when I asked my adv. class group coordinator, he sorta scoffed and smugly said that I was being instructed into deeper truths and this knowledge was needful......or some such paraphrased bullsheet. AND..........when people lavished victor paul wierwille with praise.......I remember detesting the idolizing of men......"for there is none good, but God" (as Jesus had spoken in the gospels). Now, looking back at all this............I tend to believe that wierwille's german background, his narcisstic and authoritarian demeanor, and in marketing his ministry......it was strategically orchestrated to draw away disciples unto himself. Maybe wierwille knew where he was taking things.......or, maybe he was flying by the seat of his pants (with his zipper down). Doesn't really matter much now.........except that the end result for so many was abusive and destructive. It just seems that........as vpw ventured further down the path "of scriptural knowledge".....away from b.g. leonard's foundational class.....the MORE AND MORE bizarre and incredulous this bible path became. And, yeah,........as some have posted, with ties to conspiracy theory magazines and hot-lines, even wierwille was swayed from pillar to post, hither and yon. Anyhoo.............imo, twi's two-week advanced class was the beginning of a suble programming of knowledge, and insider vocabulary, and "special entrance" into twi's cult-world. NOW.....I desire to spend the rest of my life getting back to "the simplicity that is in Christ." :unsure:

Yeah......the reality of being there is ALOT different. Kinda like that ole boxing cliche: "Every boxer has a plan until the first punch is thrown."

Ductape......I have no "beef" with you either. And, just so you know...........I have chosen NOT to sign-on with that corps only site. I've never gone there. Personally, I just don't get "warm fuzzies" to those inrez days or whatever. I've stated my opinion MANY times on GS.......to me, the corps program was A WIERWILLE INDOCTRINATION PROGRAM, not christian leadership training. For the past eight years, on Waydale and GS.....I've posted my experiences and viewpoints of the wierwille-idolatry. And, in following twi's chain of command for over two decades...........I certainly have no desire to be grilled and/or questioned of my motives of heart. I had no knowledge of wierwille's sexual predation......or anything that resembled a "top-down path of corruption." But once I came face-to-face with that 1998 Advanced Class situation with martindale and a married corps woman..........and then further info.......THE SCALES FELL FROM MY EYES. I guess......at this stage of life, after jumping thru those twi hoops......I have little desire to do those mental gymnastics of "woulda, coulda, shoulda" scenarios. To me, any dialogue that opens areas of understanding is acceptable........at times, it's gut-wrenching to even re-visit this stuff again. Peace.

exie........I love and respect you too. Unraveling one's twi experience and various commitments is a daunting task, for sure. To express my pov in its simplest terms, I believe that God looks on the heart.........it's not a corps nametag, a clergy status, or having the uppermost seats in the marketplace.......it's from A PERSPECTIVE OF SERVICE. For some here..........perhaps, the corps should wear a "target of ridicule" for going into the corps program. Didn't we realize that it was wierwille's indoctrinational process for nazi corps?????? Perhaps, all who accepted twi ordination should hang their heads in shame for aspiring to the level of I Timothy 3 and all that???? I dunno............it's all a matter of one's perspective, isn't it? IMO.......it's NOT a pecking order here, but rather a clarification of one's position within twi. If we are going to expose twi's underbelly to help ex-twiers and/or current twiers........it seems logical to speak in terms of their understanding. Besides.........in cult mentality, only the TOP LEADER wields the power to sway "present truth" and dictate the dogma for the followers. It's obvious that even in wierwille's day......harry and ermal were mere figureheads in those trustee meetings. I, for one, am so thankful for DontWorry coming here to GS.......sharing insight and perspective. Seems that some 380 or so former twi clergy have stayed SILENT ALL THESE YEARS........of course, many have their own little splinter groups where fawning followers come "to worship" and stay in a mode of offshoot conformity. And others?.......choosing to "cut all ties" and make fast tracks into business/career adventures.......having no desire to take any time to "build a bridge for others to cross over the chasm of cultdom to wholesome living." Is it any wonder why the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" insignia lingers for some????????

Yes, I would agree that "we all came from different places and all our twi's were different." Plus.....different backgrounds, different emotional levels, different family situations, different EVERYTHING......really. But, no........I do not think that "this place can become as cultish as the cult ever was; complete with privileged posters and peons..." The twi that I left.......was ruthlessly micro-managed from the top-down by the mid-to-late 90s. Time schedule sheets were to be filled out in 15-minute increments and faithfully faxed to branch/limb/region/trunk personnel. All traveling had to have twi leadership approval.....traveling to another state involved at least a 7-day notice to that limb coordinator. For full-time corps: no pregnancies without stated permission, no pets, no karate lessons for your kids, etc......full disclosure of finances. No home ownership. Etc. etc.............. Today, it's supposedly "kinder and gentler." NO..............GS is not ANYTHING like the cult I left.

Why is it?...............at times, when a poster attempts to expose wierwille's "ministry" by delving into blatant disregard for scripture, or detailing vpw's lusts & drunken carnality, or a victim posts her incident of rape......that some "self-righteous soul" comes forward TO POINT OUT WHAT YOU WOULDA - COULDA - SHOULDA DONE. Why is it?...............at times, when a poster is sharing his WOW or Corps experience that some "all-knowing individual" (who never went WOW or Corps) wants to point the finger right back at you....telling you what HE would have done in that situation! Why is it?...............at times, that a poster wants to "bust the chops" of an ordained clergyman who STOOD TOE-TO-TOE CONFRONTING WIERWILLE OF HIS EVIL DOINGS.......insinuating that it wasn't enough.....and, had he "done better" there wouldn't have been this long line of twi victims. Man.........wierwille was nearly 40 years older than me.....and had surrounded himself with an entourage of "yes-men," a couple of trained "bodyguards," an allure of "mog-ness," an isolated motorcoach world, a stage persona for glassy-eyed cult followers, access to finances & lawyers to cover his tracks, a teaching platform that thundered down on those who left twi "possessed," an "army of corps men and women" who followed his orders and reported back, an organized system of paranoia where "us versus them" included one's family, government, illuminati, seed men, and the devil himself........and the list goes on and on. Or............martindale who was hand-picked by the mog-wierwille, and publically-displayed the mantle placed on his shoulders at the 40th Anniversary Celebration and the Elijah/Elisha references, the adulation that wierwille heaped upon him for years, the Corps Chalet that wierwille passed onto Craig and Donna as the "new president's home," the new motorcoach and image that was fashioned after the wierwille pyramid........etc. etc. Or............cgeer who stepped into the void, claiming to have "the last will and testament of THE MOG" and given main stage to present his pop-paper, the same allure and isolation that wierwille fostered thru the years, attempting to speak and write posthumously "for wierwille," speaking in cryptic sentences and broad strokes to raise questions and mystique, and cleverly dividing the twi power base while gaining access to pfal copyrights........and so forth. And, to this day........some postulate "why didn't YOU confront wierwille?".......or, "why did YOU stay after 1987" (even though MANY went into the John Lynn camp where Momentus and Nose Spiders were prevalent.....and the same downward spiral happened AGAIN)........or, "why did YOU allow that stinky, pudgy 60 year old wierwille to have sex with you".......or, "being in the corps surely YOU were on the inside track of this adultery stuff." Sure, I saw things in twi as early as 1977 that "perplexed me about twi's christianity".......but being in my early 20s, I wasn't ready to confront or leave twi. Like so many have stated......I saw things, but NEVER thought that it was a TOP-DOWN EMPIRE OF EVIL. Sure, had I known then what I know now.........I woulda done things differently. Sure, had I known then what I know now.........I couda helped so many others, maybe. Sure, had I known then what I know now.........I shoulda openly confronted wierwille for all to see...?? Or, maybe I did THE RIGHT THING by staying as long as I did.......getting my whole family out of twi intact.......posting my twi experiences of 1974-1998 for many others to see on Waydale / GS.......and helping scores of others LEAVE TWI by utilizing a systematic approach of logic and critical thinking whereby they too are able to unravel their own experiences in this cult of personality. And, rather than getting thrown out on my ear .....like say, 1982 or whatever......maybe, just maybe I did THE RIGHT THING and all this "woulda, shoulda, coulda" questioning can go take a flying bite.

Systematically and strategically, wierwille down-played and virtually eliminated ADULTERY in the believer's consciousness and replaced "renewed mind compartmentalization" in its place. Even thoough adultery is...... ONE OF THOSE "BIG SINS" LISTED IN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.... wierwille's sexual predation and lust-filled habits had to eliminate it. Wierwille's "word" is THE WAY, IT WAS.

With each and every DETOUR......wherein wierwille redirected the hearts and lives of those hungering and thirsting for truth in pfal........planting "signs" of manmade doctrine and theology whereby he established a corps program that siphoned off an inner circle of "leaders" where lust, greed, power, and pride dominated any and all thought processes or godly action......clearing the way by 1986 and yet further, by 1998, where martindale and "the board" found themselves in desolate surroundings. The pyramid structure in twi.......and subsequently found in twi's offshoots......drives the system of NO accountability in any sense of true doctrine and/or practice. The "man in charge" is always right.......even if he's wrong......and its his way or the highway. Today?.......Martindale is an ousted ex-president of twi, sent packing by twi's lawyers to salvage the mess. Don W. died a couple of years later. Howard sits in retirement and visits wierwille's grave, about 100 yds away, often. <_<

And that folks............is "doing the word" according to LCM.

Exceptions where twi leadership was concerned??.......ABSOLUTELY. VPW kept pornographic material in his collection, his library.......yet, "everything gives off something" doctrine was a staple teaching for decades in twi. VPW went to seances and hooky-pook situations to learn how the devil worked........yet, anyone else could easily get pozzezzed as a new boot in hell. VPW told the WOW men "to keep it in their pants"...........yet, wierwille couldn't abide by his admonitions, or his marriage vows to solely cherish and love his wife. Don Wierwille would smoke at twi staff meetings.........yet, the staff and corps (especially from 1995-1998 during cutbacks) were mandated to STOP SMOKING, period. Rosie enjoyed her pet and swimming pool..............yet, all corps were told to get rid of any "serious pets" and cut expenses when 10% salary cuts were issued. Etc. Etc. Etc.

In response to Mark's post about "praying for our enemies"..........I was simply turning the tables of that scripture back at them. Caring whether they pray for us or not is of very little interest to me.........but showing their hypocritical nature IS valuable to expose them for all to see. When the scribes and Pharisees tried to corner Jesus' words....in Matthew 15.....he gave several vivid illustrations of their hypocrisy.

Like them???............. Gee, I think that its fair to say that MOST of us have taken the high road.........far away from this cesspool of spiritual filth and degradation.

Enemies??........no, I certainly don't think of them THAT way. Maybe deceived and delusional.......but not enemies. And, wondering................do they PRAY for us "greasespotters?"

Mark......I understand what you're saying, but the track record of "top twi leaders" turning from this twisted doctrine, this self-serving entitlement, this I-am-righteous-now-and-forever-will-be hypnotic mantra, and receive with humility God's sovereign authority OVER AND ABOVE the wierwille-laced doctrines of deception..........any turn around is slim to none. IMO.....Cgeer took on the wierwille-visage and persona and "calling" after the death of vpw in 1985. In action and content, cgeer has been writing post-humously for wierwille and mandating the wierwille dogna. So, I think that it's fair to say that any *turning to the Lord* is just not going to happen. And further..........even major players of twi-offshoots "call upon the name of wierwille" when the chips are down....i.e. John Lynn's June 2008 letter. Martindale doesn't make the list of "turning to the Lord" either........... Should I continue.......??????

You don't expect her to speak truthfully for once do you??? Come, come....skyrider! (tongue in cheek, of course) It's my opinion, that she's been so evil for so long, that she is now unable to speak the truth. When you live a lie long enough, it "becomes" true (in your mind) and everything else is false. Krysilis........no, obviously that's NOT going to happen........but it DOES singularly point to the fact that, as president of twi, any sense of spiritual integrity is not forthcoming. Perhaps, this thread will help one more person exit twi.

Again......when Rosie was deposed for the Allen lawsuit, under oath she stated that she KNEW about martindale's sexual proclivities as early as 1995. Then.......in 1998 this incident at the advanced class surfaced with martindale and a married corps girl. So now, what did Rosie do???........after all, this "advanced class" is to prime the pump of the spiritual heavy-weights, right? Surely this would send RED FLAGS FLYING OVER TWI FOR ALL WHO KNEW.......right? Nope.....the trustees did nothing of substance. Then.......in 1999 P@ul and F3rn Allxn abruptly leave twi hq after P@ul sternly confronts LCM about sexual relations with his wife F3rn and demands for martindale to resign. Later, the lawsuit is filed and martindale admits, in April 2000, of his involvement. Hello, Rosalie Fox Rivenbark...............and why did you sit back and DO NOTHING????? Finally.....after twi's lawyers work every angle to salvage martindale's defense and the mountain of testimony AGAINST him........twi settles out of court.......and martindale is sent packing to Toledo under the cover of extreme secrecy. And Donna???......well, she stayed at hq and given the position as Special Assistant to the President [Ros-a-lie]. Another lawsuit.......the parker lawsuit......was filed and settled. Even to THIS DAY.......JULY 2008.......many staffers do not know these details. My oh my, how effective those indoctrinational techniques are when the trustees tell people that "people get pozzezzed and try to discredit the man of gawd." It is baffling to see grown adults fully given over to cult mentality......and going nowhere in life. Unbelievable........that I once was a part of this deceptive organization. <_<

Yes.......the internet is a terrible thing in terms of recruiting others to way doctrine.

For those who've wondered about HOW TWI ASSIGNMENTS ARE GIVEN......here is an example. Martindale offered this Way Disciple Coordinator position.....IF this corps guy would shut up and stay at hq [and "share his wife" with martindale]. NOW.........doesn't that "fit like a hand in a glove" with twi's inclusive evils????

Yeah.......and whitedove has displayed this same behavior on my "Corps Indoctrination" threads, relentlessly attacking my perspective, my experiences. As many here know, I challenged him several time on his qualifications and first-hand knowledge......but always, he side-steps my direct questions with more drivel. His m.o. is always the same..........a barrage of bullsheet. Someone in Kansas called him out once.......confronting him and openly stated that he'd never gone wow, never went thru the corps program, never left his area. What did wd say to all this??????....................nothing but silence. He seems to have VERY LITTLE FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE OF TWI LEADERSHIP, OF PROGRAMS......except going to emporia campus and bumping into uncle harry and a few others on a work day. <_<

WW quote: EXACTLY..!! And, what's going to be the NEXT big thing while "sniffing in the wind?"

Belle, Absolutely..!!!......THAT is the sickening of it all......Rosalie KNEW (according to the deposition...as early as 1995) and DID NOTHING......Howard? Don?.......the security guys?......some of the presidents' cabinet?.......the inner circle of girls? of course. Obviously, there was, and continues to be, an orchestrated cover-up.........where the insiders live in a world of sex, lies and mog-fawning. Bribes? Perks? Gate-Keeping Secrets? Midnight Escorts on the Grounds of TWI? All in the name of "doing God's work on earth." patooie The lies continue......the damage control measures stopped some hemoragging.......the old staffers don't want to leave and work in the real world.......the young kids haven't a clue......what else is new? Twi's investments keep them solvent......and the monk-ish lifestyle at hq helps to keep the expenses down. Some corps & leaders have split......others seem to find a way to rationalize away all their questions, living in a dead zone of no thinking, no questioning, no free will. The frog in the water pot, as the temperature rises......comes to mind. <_<

krysilis, Thanks for coming forward to bring these facts to light. My life was dynamically changed as a result of your son's actions to confront martindale and the evil in this organization. As one phone call led to another.........lots more found the exit doors and through the years, I know of some 70 people (and counting) who've left twi as this information rippled to the "outer shores" to freedom. May you and your family abound in riches and grace! :)

Yeah.......P Mosq.... came forward on Waydale and put together *an exit strategy* for anyone who wanted to extricate themselves from twi's vise-grip. He and Bev gave out their e-mail addy for a period of time to help. Looking at the list of ex-corps coordinators........john l. and steve s. and paul m. and wayne c. and a few others......is an eye-opener to see how many have left twi. As "big names" go, it seems that bob moneyhands is about the only corps coordinator still associated with twi. But then, with his wife's connections they are set for retirement anyways.

Not sure about "all the toadies"......BUT at least six or seven Region Coordinators have exited twi's doors when the martindale "admission of an affair" and subsequent lawsuits came on the horizon. Two guys, L@lly and P@n@rello,.......did stints as the Trunk Coordinator so guess that they hit the exit doors after martindale was ousted in 2000. But then, from what I've heard of these two.... LP still holds to twi teachings, doctrine, etc. for the most part. Just seems like very few SHOUT FROM THE HOUSETOPS the twisting of scripture, the deceitful doctrines, the lewd behavior, the secret agendas, the wierwille idolatry, the pyramid of power, the raping and abortions, the wholesale plagiarism, the cult mentality and isolation, the use and abuse of way corps, the grooming of lcm/geer in the image of wierwille, etc.. How many splinter groups/ wierwille-imposters are there nowadays, anyway>?????? Geeez

Ten years ago, in early July of 1998........the advanced class was running at twi's hq. To help oversee the new students, inresidence corps were brought in from camp gunnison as branch coordinators. As twi events go, this one had all the same standard procedures and pecking order as usual. Except for one glitch........ At this event, martindale set his sights on a corps woman, a married woman whose husband and children were back at camp gunnison, and this sexual encounter brought extreme confusion, hurt, and emotional distraught to this corps woman. As this *damage* spilled over to her corps brother, who took it upon himself to personally CONFRONT CRAIG.......the damage control liasons of twi, the gun-totting guys, were unleashed to get this corps guy packing and on a bus within the hour. Others know much more of these details than me.......but it later involved a Colorado Court Case. As the phones began ringing.....and word spread of this sexcapade involving martindale and this married corps woman, it left little doubt that THINGS WERE ROTTEN AT THE WAY INTERNATIONAL. For indeed, some of us truly believed that martindale and howard and don were sincerely committed to *cleaning up the way international* and taking this *prevailing word* (cough, cough) to all who wanted deliverance. Like his predecessor wierwille, here martindale had "a secret life of lust" and was preying on the young corps women......a married woman, no less. MY FUTURE CHANGED.......with the knowledge of this!!!!! IT WAS TIME TO LEAVE TWI. Sure, I heard Cgeer's poop paper back in the day (of the power grab) .......but honestly, it was filled with SO MUCH pomp and arrogance of cgeer's "wisdom and accomplishments" that I could barely hear what he was saying. And then, with Schoenhxxt's adultery paper, the firings, the shenanigans of geer's now-you-see-me-now-you-don't.........I just wasn't ready to "jump ship" when that loyalty letter came out. WHY NOW?? WHY THE CHANGE??.............Well, for one thing, I was ten years older and had plenty of time to assimilate the geer-martindale-offshoots splintering and all that. Plus, the homo purge and the micro-management and the "promised land of the prevailing word" brought MORE and MORE LEGALISM INTO TWI. So, when this martindale sexcapade event spilled out.....at the advanced class, no less.......with a MARRIED corps woman......and hearing subsequent information from others as this information opened insider information of twi......THE SCALES FELL FROM MY EYES. So.............TEN YEARS LATER, what have I learned. Well.....Martindale was ousted two years after I left -- in 2000. And, Rosalie has done her best to squelch any information or anyone who want to resolve twi's dark issues. Plus, without a charismatic leader anymore........twi has resorted to *bringing back from the dead wierwille-idolatry and the over-the-top adulation of emeritus trustees. The Multi-Level Marketing administration is firmly in place and "business as usual" has gained residency once again.......as well as the "serf system," the corps program. Notwithstanding that twi's sunday teachings are SO BORING, AND DULL, AND READ FROM THE LECTURN each week........imo, it gives rock-solid proof that the twi religion is dead. Looking at life......TEN YEARS LATER......and life is so very good. Fresh air and skying high. skyrider