skyrider

SO..........where is the "spiritual perception and awareness" that these offshoot "leadeers" boast of and perpetuate?? Where?? When things like momentus and "nose spiders" are allowed to roam freely to those who seemingly are sanctified in Christ.......WHERE ARE THE WATCHMEN??? Time and time again......they hide behind labeling the outspoken ones "possessed." Gee, where have we heard THAT before? Yep, from the same cloth.....they are "wierwille-like"......NOT Christlike. Yeah.......they hide behind their "research books".....their websites.....their list of beliefs. These offshoot leaders have to be in control.....they have to manipulate you......they masterfully steer every conversation. The pattern of evil was not written by twi......many came before wierwille, and many will follow. IMO.......wierwille rode on the wings of worldly evil. His timing of the pfal class, just around the zenith of the Jesus movement.......added to his mystique at one time. But no more. <_<

Besides the "leaders" of these splinter groups...........another WHOLE ASPECT of this issue revolves around the followers of these offshoots. For instance.....one doesn't have to venture much further than the CES/STI group to see major flaws in their model structure and the "spiritual DNA" from twi (as DWBH has noted several times). Although CES fronts its "biblical research" in their books, website, etc..........there was this DESTRUCTIVE "PERSONAL PROPHECY" DOCTRINE in their midst accompanied by a high prophetess, and prophets, and council......wherein lives and marriages were shipwrecked against the shores of unaccountability. And further............"prophecies" were turning dark, and ugly, and vicious, and "nose spiders" were inhabiting the ranks..!!! And......STILL......no "light bulbs" went off in the CES upper ranks UNTIL THIS BECAME FULL-BLOWN ON GREASESPOT....OUT IN THE OPEN FOR ALL CES-FOLLOWERS TO SEE AND READ. What about the people....??????? YEARS and YEARS.....AFTER LEAVING TWI......these offshoot followers are still being led away, following a "pied-piper".......being fleeced in the name of God. For some.....it looks like from 1988-2007......19 MORE YEARS.......some continued on the hype of being "the true remnant to stand for God." And, I know several who've left the geerite group too..!! Just nothing new under the sun.

DWBH......that about sums it up for me, as well. <_< Like I've said before, after leaving twi.....and spending time on Waydale and Greasespot......AND THEN, READING MRS. WIERWILLE'S BOOK.....it was very clear that vpw was predominantly self-centered in "his quest for truth." Apparently, he was stumbling along in life....and knew very little even AFTER meeting stiles in Tulsa, Oklahoma to "receive holy spirit into manifestation." ONLY AFTER STEALING B.G.'S CLASS AND MODEL STRUCTURE.......did veepee start taking babysteps towards his pedestal of self-importance. Today, these splinger groups have adapted the same model, the same arrogance, the same man-made hierarchy to lift them to *mini-mog stardom.* And, within their little pond of self-importance..........yes, they are the big fish in the stagnant pond. From on outsider's perspective, it's rather funny.....but in their own little world, it's inflated to be "moving the word over the world." Same stuff, different day. According to cgeer, there was a time when men like T0wnsend was desperately struggling to find a job and pay the bills after leaving twi and all. And, to me, the very fact that men like T0wnsend and others were so ill-equipped to find a real job after leaving speak volumes of twi's "work/study program and believing God" types of scenarios. Talk is so cheap. And, in these splinger groups.......it's even cheaper.

now I see..........yeah, those four states you noted were the "big-name" wayfer states and that's probably why shroy3r's position for many years as the limb coordinator in Ohio, and later Florida, helped to springboard the CFF offshoot. Why is it?...........that these offshoot ministers laid claim to "walking with God" after leaving twi and "put up their new shingle" in those states where they'd already been limb coordinators? ......men like vinny, seed, shr0yer, and others. And, to this day it seems like most of their "congregants" [95%..??] are of the ex-twi faction.

Although it's been said MANY TIMES.........mrs. wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve elaborates quite extensively on wierwille's deep frustration and on the verge of "quitting the ministry"........UNTIL vpw went to Calgary, Alberta and took B.G. Leonard's class. In fact........wierwille's ministry was NOT a "take this class" ministry. Wierwille was still in the denomination and was struggling with many issues. B.G. Leonard had a foundational class. B.G. Leonard had registration requirements, a class set-up, a Bible Centre, a class photo..........etc. Wierwille carbon-copied the Leonard model...........from Canadian soup to Buckeye nuts..!!!

Well.......in 1953, when wierwille took B.G. Leonard's The Gifts of the Spirit class, HE DIDN'T CHANGE THINGS OVERNIGHT EITHER. But gradually over time, wierwille altered and added to B.G.'s foundational class and later changed the class name to "Power for Abundant Living." But.....STILL......Twi is an offshoot of Leonard's ministry. <_<

Twi never taught me THAT either. <_<

YES.............it's STILL happening. Two friends of ours, who have been long-standing followers of twi for over 3 decades, are starting to move away from their SOLE ALLEGIANCE TO TWI. YES.............twi is losing it's grip. By subscribing to OTHER teachings, our friends are now considering ( :blink: )..... SOURCES OTHER THAN TWI. And, with that decision begins the LONG, HARD JOURNEY away from "the lion's den." YES.............it's the dawning of a new day. One by one.......folks are slipping away from twi's elitist propaganda and back to reality. Their area, that had seven household fellowships, is now down to 2 dwindling fellowships......and little activity. Two more AWAKE......with dawn in THEIR eyes......MULTIPLIES.

Jim.....looks like the religious fervor in twi has mirrored what happened with the Mormons, no surpise there. IMHO.....Twi was an offshoot of B.G. Leonard's ministry and never had a distant claim to being "the only true church or household." Sheeesh. And now, twi offshoots are laying claim to the same. Move over cgeer......you didn't do anything different than what the Mormon leaders did. Move over lyyn.......you are just another guy in a long list of "players." Move over finnygin......move over sides...... move over ruud.......move over clappe.......move over seed......and the list goes on and on and on. If it weren't for "sucker supporters".......these guys would have to get jobs and contribute to society. <_<

Yeah.....All of them stand up and no one sits down... Big-name splinter groups, little-known offshoot groups, websites that display a listing of wierwille teachings, books written posthumously in the name of wierwille...........seems like "praising the man" is far bigger than "praising the Lord." Sure, the pyramid system is attractive to those who seek power and control over others ..........attracting the David Koreshes of the world and fueling the fires for even more isolationism. Sure, the elitism feeds the mind with "a self-importance mission" that seems to substantiate one's "stand on the word" at every turn..........much like wierwille's spiel around those late-night campfires. Sure, the insider-knowledge of all-that-wierwille-taught leverages major intimidation to those who venture into this arena..........but wierwille's teachings are NOT the standard for truth, the Scriptures provide that standard. I guess it must feel very satisfying to be the ONLY REMNANT LEFT STANDING FOR GOD AND THE LEGACY OF WIERWILLE.

As another group -- S.O.W.E.R.S. -- embarks on their journey to "train 12 disciples with grandpa wierwille's tutelage of the five corps principles" ...... I find it quite amusing that these guys haven't figured out that THE FIRST TRAIN WRECKED. Same corps principles. Same work/study program. Same isolation techniques. Same hype and mantra. So, how is this going to "turn the corner"??.......or is that NOT even a consideration at this time? Hopefully, it's not just another sect of wierwille-adulatory cloning on the rise..........AGAIN. I guess that I'm outta the loop on this one. I just don't get it. How on God's green earth can THIS have any resemblance of the first century church? of unifying the small churches in common bond as in the Book of Acts? of the One Body working together? And, another question.......Will the REAL vpw-ministry remnant please stand up? Name-Recognition is a big thing in marketing....and, seemingly, in small-fringe sects as well. Cgeer went immediately into editing posthumously the works of wierwille.......Lyyn recently wrote his lengthy letter to the CES group and wanting to make his mogship proud ........ and CFF clings to the wierwille-adulation, as well. Heck, I remember seeing some "real-deal-vpw-apologists" back in the early 80s......who felt that LCM WAS THE WRONG CHOICE AND WANTED TO MAINTAIN THE WAYS OF WIERWILLE. Thus, these "fortified outposts of followers" would keep to themselves and hold to the vpw-spiel of "see you at the rock"......"word over the world"......"you are the best." One small group of say 3 couples........drank drambuie. I guess if you hang around long enough...........you've just about SEEN IT ALL. But imho........the scriptures clearly show that such work comes to nought. Besides, to me, when one "follows the money trail" and "praise of men trail" these groups expose their true motives and intent.

Kinda like the modern day *arc of the covenant*...........'cept the "modern-day moldy manna" didn't come down from heaven above. Sheeeeesh, looks like twi STILL doesn't get it...........geerites don't get it...........lynn doesn't get it..........cff doesn't get it...........other splinter groups don't get it...........and more splintering is going on all the time. .............. ................

Apologies............. For me, the nearest thing to an "apology".......was about 2 years after my exit, my confronters -- the La11ys -- packed their bags and left twi in the middle of the night. Poof...........they were gone!!!! In a round-about way, I took it that they finally saw what I was trying to tell them...........and even though my wife and I were grilled for several hours, the La11ys took the path of no confrontation. But hey.......I hold no ill-will towards them. After all, they were IN-DOCVIC-TRINATED.

I tend to think that they've still got me on their *mark/avoid* list..........so I really don't expect a phone call anytime soon. Yeah.....I wouldn't be surprised if my name hasn't been mentioned on a corps night or two......with references to GSC and pozzezzed in the same sentence.

Some of my ex-twi friends are starting to get those "out of the blue" phone calls from twi followers....... those ice-breaker calls to just say "hi." Yeah, right. BUT.......it doesn't take long before the conversation is steered to, "You oughta come back to fellowship...... or, Things are really happening now -- things have changed.........or, You're missing out -- it's really great again." How can things in twi have so changed...........WHEN THE OLD GUARD IS STILL THE SAME..??

This insertion in Mrs. W's book shows how, by 1996, this information is "sanitized" after the fact.........because vp wierwille was STILL on the payroll of the Van Wert Church when this "board meeting" was held. HOW CONVENIENT......that wierwille stays on the church payroll while *building his ministry.* Wierwille stole B.G. Leonard's foundational class in 1953......and wierwille is supposedly "building his ministry since 1942" while he stays on the church payroll. Gee........where was wierwille's BELIEVING????????????? Since wierwille LEFT the church payroll in 1957......"by this time" wierwille's ministry was like Two Years Old.

In short.......there is enough oil reserves in the northern slopes of Alaska to fuel America for the next 200 years at the progressive rate of consumption. In short.......if the Washington administration cleared all obstacles for the drilling, piping, and refining of these oil reserves immediately.....within a year the price of a gallon of gas at the pump would be $1.50 or less. In short.......political powers are deceiving the American people and keeping us dependent on foreign oil reserves and thus, price gouging. Is this for real.....???????

Don't know if this has been discussed before...... What do you think?

Yeah......I never believed that wierwille was anywhere near the current Apostle Paul standard, but rather was swayed into conformity [group-think mentality] to stay with the cause of "word over the world." Along with the twi-drama.......were "friendships" and relationships and not wanting to be a quitter.......just so many reasons for *marching to the beat of twi's drum." With that youthfulness desire of acceptance or whatever, I see lots of other interlaced reasons why some stayed in twi. Sure, there were a few that might have believed that wierwille was THE mogfot........but I was NOT one of them.

Shortly after vpw's death.......I vividly remember Howard Allen eulogizing wierwille at a staff/corps meeting and stating that, in reality, wierwille lived 136 years BECAUSE wierwille put in twice the heart and effort of other men (68 X 2 = 136).

Good stuff there.....T-Bone.

For those who visit GS........thought you'd like to know that tonight's Larry King show will be spotlighting SHOCKING STORIES OF ABUSE IN CULTS. No surprises there, eh? <_<

dmiller..........almost, thou persuadest me that programming began at pfal, "and even earlier." When I ponder aspects of pfal......it's apparent that wierwille's straight-forward approach was to spearhead and emphasize the manifestations of the spirit above all else. Sure, after years of tweaking his product, wierwille augmented and broadened "his" foundational class........but so many of those *promises on the green card* were just window-dressing to get you in the store (twi) and keep you there (by providing other classes). Yeah, I would agree with lindyhopper in that, to a degree, aspects of pfal (and twig) were a form of conditioning. For some who had to WAIT FOR MONTHS to take pfal......an expectation was built-in [....think pavlov, think salivating dogs]. :) BUT.........in attending the Advanced Class, it seemed like wierwille was promoting and "programming" the students with his deep ideologies of the holocaust, the illuminati, government distrust and cover-ups, and other tangents. Talk about PROGRAMMING one to accept the "us versus them" concept........wierwille's conspiracy theories / paranoia were strategically presented to the students and showed that "strength in numbers" was our ONLY HOPE of withstanding the onslaughts of the devil. And, at the advanced class........away from family & friends, the two-weeks of immersion in wayworld was very persuasive, indeed. Even after those class sessions, one had to attend those "group-think meetings" .......THOSE WERE NOT RELEASE GROUPS. There was very little "releasing" of feelings, opinions, questioning, or whatever......nope, it wasn't designed for that purpose. Anyways......I appreciate all who've added to this thread. Thanks.

Thanks everyone for your responses! I guess that I use the word "programming" in the sense that......to me, the Advanced Class threw lots of twi-ideology curves at us. I certainly wasn't expecting to hear such an adamant twi stance on "the hoax of the six million" or that "all popes were seed boys" ...... stuff like that. It's one thing to go thru Scripture and expound on it...........it's quite another thing to shoot tangents at the class with very little evidence to support it. I guess it kept nagging at me......what the heck does THAT have to do with learning the Bible???? Yeah.....I see your point. Besides, all we needed to do was "just write THE TEACHER".....for all the answers.