skyrider

I would agree with this. And, adding to the list.....Is this "need to be right" the driving force to go back to twi? Is that us-versus-them mentality the reason? Do they still think that all denominational churches are spiritually-infested like twi teaches? Do those little cliches like "we have no friends when it comes to the word" hold power over their so-called friendships with others? Feelings of guilt? Of "abandoning one's father in the word or salted vow"? Or, just need to stand with twi...so as to get back to that elitist feeling again? Sounds to me like these "friends" never developed critical thinking skills to answer the glaring questions regarding vpw's credentials, twi's history, plagairism, doctrinal discrepencies, the toxic lock-box concept, no accountability to congregants -- finances/sex exploitation/grievances, the putrid fruit that has fallen from the way tree, etc. etc..........or the obvious exodus of thousands upon thousands of corps & adv class grads thru the years.

I agree......that is NOT her. And, yeah....the guy must have worked with "joe the a/v guy."

Well said, Tom. IMO......men like lcm, cgeer, jal, and several others in twi continue down the same path of "successive, seductive spirituality" wherein the spouting of scriptures is portrayed as Christian leadership/service. On the contrary, this narcisstic posturing is merely their attempt to manipulate, intimidate and control others. And, even though wierwille has been dead for 23 years......lynn, in his own words SEEKS the approval of "his teacher" (i.e. "wanting wierwille to be proud of him). All indications lead me to think that martindale is part of this "old boys club" too. I could be wrong......but I don't see martindale coming outta the woodwork to amend his wrongful doings. Do I care? Not really. I tend to think that being DE-THRONED AFTER WAP AND ALL......is a constant reminder in his daily life that he failed miserably! And, his wap class and aos videos have been shelved in the back aisles of twi's warehouse. What a legacy....???........hahahahahaha Of course, he gets "hush money"..........another thorny reminder that twi and martindale are joined at the hip in a seedy relationship until the day he dies.

Cleaning bathrooms, peeling potatoes and serving tables......is NON-trustee service. Twi's trustees (directors) serve DAH WORD.......doncha know??

Thanks penworks......good points. IMO......wierwille was searching for "a product" to market. Even in his own words, wierwille was searching for that "thing" that would empower and propel one forward. Well.......along came Jones......er, Stiles and shortly thereafter B.G. Leonard's CLASS. The lightbulb came on. After sitting in B.G.'s class twice, wierwille begain to connect the dots of how his marketing strategy would free him from the denominational church. It had a "business" thrust to it......a MLM corporation where wierwille held the copyrights and purse-strings of "a bible class to the masses." The very fact that veepee "buried" Leonard's name in a laundry list of teachers who helped him formulate "a re-packaging of truth" speaks volumes. Interesting to me......is that wierwille seemed to search for "a product, a package, a gimmick, a way production inroad" to appeal to the masses. IMO......it lends towards wierwille's basic lazy nature of looking for something that would replicate itself....over and over and over again. Pfal was like that. Once filmed..........EVEN WIERWILLE COULD NOT RE-PACKAGE IT IN 1977. Contrasted with such men like Rev. Billy Graham.......a minister who traveled the world teaching to tens of thousands and ministering in countless ways for six or seven DECADES. Yet, wierwille did his darndest to "build a recruitment force" (aka the way corps) wherein he sat around boasting of his wierwille heritage, the audible voice of god's calling, etc. etc......while he sipped his drambuie and later slipped away to the motorcoach for a "nightcap."

That poster looks like it's targeting third-graders. "These people" don't live in the REAL WORLD......they live in a PETER-PAN WORLD. Okay, the guy in tights is no longer around.....but he "flew the coop" didn't he??? THAT POSTER says it all.........sitting on their butts like "obedient" little children with the fantasy tales that their "word" is going over the world.

yeah......watching some speaker READ the pre-approved "teaching"......ohh, how exciting. NOT then.......stop at the bookstore to see the rehashed material. then.......head out of ohio with, possibly, a 250-mile drive home. then.......get the tape in the mail on thursday. uhhhh.....no thanks.

Twi version: "The vesper chimes beginning was so small, the plagairism so seemingly inconsequential, the stories of the audible voice from God so well-rehearsed and explained, and the speaker so charismatic, that unless one were detached from the whole process and never indoctrinated with pfal propaganda, unless one understood that the whole self-serving movement was a cult in principle, what all these "little measures" and classes and programs amounted to were wierwille's german heritage rising in the form of corps indoctrination, hail wierwille and his fervor of material abundance and indulgence, leading to astounding arrogance and elitism. In the process, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field saw the corn growing. One day the cornfield cult was over his head."

On the eve of twi's 51st Anniversary......(since wierwille was still an employed pastor at the E&R Church in Van Wert, Ohio until 1957.....it seems only honest and appropriate that twi's inception wasn't until then)......I wanted to send this historical greeting. They Thought They Were Free (the Germans 1933-45) by Milton Mayer ------snip------ From the book "They Thought They Were Free (the Germans 1933-45)" by Milton Mayer. One section, chapter 13, discusses how gradually the abuses of the Nazi's worsened, and how this was tolerated by the German people. Excerpt: "Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained, or on occasion, 'regretted,' that unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' that no 'patriotic German' could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field see the corn growing. One day it is over his head." Above the Corn, And Flying High, ..skyrider

fig pep head table 3-piece suits at outdoor meetings trailer parks afterglow meetings pavlov's dog experiments bless patrol drambuie

What's "debatable" about his affiliation with the E&R Church from 1952-1957..??? Guess I need to dig out Mrs. Wierwille's book again from the attic..........but I distinctly remember her stating that when vpw, don and mrs. arrived home from B.G. Leonard's class in 1953, veepee went to work in signing up friends and neighbors and this first "pfal class" was run at the E&R Church. Plus, the correspondence during the "India trip" was TO the E&R congregants. What's "debatable" about that...WD? <_<

Although the two-drink rule has its benefits......I tend to think that "the benefits" favored twi in terms that "the ministry be not blamed" AND keeping followers in their place as "adolescents." Yet, wierwille's drambuie-coffee sipping during those late night corps meetings was well-known. Like father like son.....when don wierwille would smoke at those staff meetings. In other words, DRINKING and SMOKING is not good.....don't do it (yet, THEY did). Ironic, isn't it? Wierwille could be so specific about the two-drink limit.....but couldn't address adultery in the CF&S class. Hypocrits and adulterers.

Good point, Oakspear.....hadn't really thought of it like that. So....once veepee stole B.G. Leonard's class in '53 and started digging into Bullinger's work (when dr. higgins sat in 'The Gifts of the Spirit' class and noted bullinger research books)....wierwille was OFF TO THE RACES FRONTING HIS 'NEWFOUND' INSIDE TRACK TO GOD. Heck, wierwille was noted as having 'twi-board meetings' while he was still an E&R church pastor....like he couldn't wait to strike out on his own. <_<

Speaking of big meetings..........how about the Rock of Ages? For several years, I helped usher at the Big Top.....the Main Tent. When the abundant sharing was received, we were instructed to walk briskly over to the OSC where twi's security was guarding this "procession of money" every step of the way. As we reached the OSC, the maintenance area where the fire truck was usually parked, we formed in five or six lines. While holding our horns of plenty.....we patiently waited to dump its contents, THE MONEY, into a large barrel (simply a trash barrel). Each line had its own barrel. With thousands upon thousands in attendance at the roa......IT REALLY WAS AMAZING TO SEE ALL THAT CASH IN SIX BARRELS. Then, after leaving our empty horn of plenty on a table.....we were instructed to immediately return to our seat. So.......whatever happened with all this cash after that, I do not know. But given all that Waydale and GS has reported throughout these years......I would venture to say that the seedy-side of twi only reported a portion of this this cash in its reports. Contrasted with churches where checks are given......in those "barrels of cash" I didn't see one check. Not one! Do the math........just say twelve thousand adults at the Rock and each throws in a couple of $20 bills. It does add up rather quickly........doesn't it?

WG.......yes, in these tapes LCM describes how Howard & Don's long-time secretary, Co0kie L0vested, saw CGeer's face morph into victor paul wierwille. LCM goes on to describe that this familiar spirit in Geer was "seeing what it could get away with" in Co0kie's presence. Martindale sure had a way of describing how them devil spirits worked. He seemed to have "up close and personal" experience with the dark side of things.

Quote by WD: Nice try, WD....... YOUR example of citing Rev. Ross Tr@cy is far from the twi norm..........but then, I highly suspect that you realize this. First, Rev. Tr@cy came from out of the pail of church denominational policies and procedures. He was NOT from the same cloth of vpw-indoctrination. He was his OWN man! A confident pastor/minister for the Lord. So, yeah I can easily see how Rev. Tr@cy would allocate funds for the branch and NOT SEND IT TO TWI HQ. The twi indoctrination to all wows, tc, bc, lc, rc..........SEND MONIES DIRECTLY TO TWI EVERY MONDAY BEFORE THE MAIL GOES OUT. To do otherwise would bring the wrath of the trunk office to your door!

penguin......yes, I watched it (since I started this thread). Mostly, this investigation focused on the group Children of God and founder Bergman. According to this report, COG gained momentum and popularity in the late 60s when young people were looking for something outside the organized church and establishment. The founder was noted to have narcisstic characteristics with an exceptional charismatic personality......who also promoted his liberal sexual lifestyle to the group. The investigation focused on three ex-members of COG who were outspoken against the sexual abuse, the mental torment and spiritual fragmentation that such practices engendered. Bergman was grooming a young boy to be "heir to the throne" and touted as "The One" chosen to take COG to great heights. Sexually abused by his nanny through the years and the disconnect with reality......years later, after struggling with his identity and guilt sought out his childhood nanny, killed her and then, committed suicide. There were a couple of other groups talked about in this show.....but COG was the main investigation. What I took from this investigation was this: The founder was a narcisstic, charismatic leader who opposed mainstream Christianity. He targeted the youth for self-serving goals to build an army of volunteers who would recruited others to "build his kingdom".....while he fulfilled his sexual lusts. By isolating his followers, he was able to constantly feed them with mind-numbing mantras in his teachings, newsletters, missions, etc. And, when the founder died off.....the wife took to running the group in the SAME manner. Of course, the ex-members were NOW amazed that they didn't see it sooner. And now, the second generation has to deal with the destruction and abuse at the hands of their "leaders." Any of this sound familiar?

Oldies......gee, I wonder when the scriptures say "to be carnally-minded is death"...........is THAT a derogatory term / concept also?? Is God being "derogatory?" To me, waybrain is a specific term noting one who was/is indoctrinated with way doctrine. According to twi indoctrination.........waybrain is the ULTIMATE in renewed mind consciousness. No, of course twi isn't going to call it "waybrain".........twi labels it "the renewed mind." Another way of looking at waybrain.......our discussions here at GS are "separating truth from error" ................or, separating the things of God from the "traditions of man."

Not a "defence".......an observation, yes. Since you noted pfal in an earlier post......I merely pointed out to you that wierwille's "standard of truth" is flawed on so many levels. He brings HIS biases and opinions to pfal......and since there are STILL those who put wierwille on some type of spiritual pedestal......his classes are "way-braining" the students. Sure when he reads scripture......no problem. But the second wierwille steps away from reading scripture word for word AND INSERTS HIS BIASES, HIS OPINIONS, HIS DEROGATORY REMARKS.......it's hardly a standard one would care to embrace.

Oh really....??? Gee, I seem to recall in pfal where "WIERWILLE THE TEACHER" made references to the "carnal man"......he was "just an emptie floating by." Or, wierwille calling anyone who left HIS ministry..........."a copout."

RG.....yeah, 8 pm EST and entitled "THS Investigates Cults and Religion"

As a follow-up to "The Soup" thread.........the Entertainment Channel, this Friday, will be investigating cults and religions. Kinda makes me wonder if that "dance piece from The Way" sparked an interest in seeing what other wierd things are out there in cults......in the vein of "entertainment." Maybe twi will continue to get THAT FREE PUBLICITY that they so crave....???!!!

Waybrain: A toxic takeover of one's mind and conscience wherein twi-doctrines supercede reason, reality and self responsibility. Continuing in this mindset, one ventures into total dependency and destruction of self.

Gee.....could the Apostle Paul have "served the Lord Jesus" and stayed hell-bent on Phariseeism rule..??

Yeah......wierwille begot another generation of "leaders" who are hell-bent on carrying forth "THE TRUTH" in all its twi-glory and arrogance. * This "truth" has wheat AND tares growing together in its midst. * This "truth" is supposedly rightly-divided......and stands on its own (as long as one doesn't oppose it). * This "truth" is "the gold of Egypt"......yet JAL admits that much of it is was "fool's gold." * This "truth" sets the leaders free.......but holds captive the followers in destructive abuse. * This "truth" is first-century truth........yet, stolen from stiles, bullinger and vpw's contemporaries. * This "truth" teaches the nine fruit of the spirit.....yet, only carnal fruit is found in these "leaders." * This "truth" opens wide the doors of arrogance and elitism........to have "THE answers." * This "truth" keeps the pied-piper in the lead......not the Lord Jesus Christ. <_<