skyrider

When I reflect back 35 years ago.........in 1974, I was a born-again christian in college. My life was relatively simple, fun and spontaneous. As the year unfolded, I encountered more and more christian groups, bible study groups, eastern religion, and wacky sects. The whole world was opening before my eyes.........and the questions flooded in. A few months later, I was approached by wow ambassadors and six weeks later, signed the green card. Back in those "early days".......twig fellowships were very caring and simple. Even after taking pfal, I had no desire to write "the teacher".....no desire to listen to sunday teaching tapes......no acceptance of any twi-allegiance. I simply wanted to walk in truth and be well-pleasing to my Father God. There was not one corps person in the state......no sense of a central command of religious authority standing over my shoulder. Life was scintillating. BUT...........as the months passed, I succombed to the idea of going wow. Slowly, ever-so-slowly, the merging of "serving God equaled signing up others for pfal"........after all, the class held the keys to doors of learning. Rather than embracing THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST .....I allowed twi's repetitive cliches and networking of faithful followers to pull me into programs, wow & corps, that inch-by-inch, day-by-day seduced me from the true service of a Loving God. In hindsight, when it's so apparent that wierwille's "central command" was corrupt and deceitful........all those scriptures where Jesus warned us of deceivers, wolves in sheep's clothing, seducers, like angels of light, whited sepulchres, etc. stand as a testament to an Omnipotent God who loves His children. Clearly, the twi-experience is but a couple of chapters in my life...... and only deepens my character, my resolve, my perseverance to shed evil and follow truth. For me, twi's offshoot ministries hold NO appeal.......NONE. Even as late as August 2007, one of my friends was getting phone calls from JAL to sign up for MOMENTUS!! What is it with "these people?" From what I see..............such "leaders" are blinded from the truth!!!! Same with cgeer.......selling franchise classes and demanding abs percentages while he sits at a desk in Maine????!!!!! Call them "havens".....call them "bible studies"......call them "remnants of truth".....whatever, imo, if they have the same micro-management mantra of twi and the absent-christ doctrine, it smells like oppression. No thanks. Been there, done that. I don't need to be "plugged in to some offshoot" to serve, and live, and love.

Not only do they separate their adherents........but "house fellowships" give these offshoot leaders EXCLUSIVE HOUSE RULES that involve a unique set of intimidation and control. After years of twi's bashing on churches, the offshoot follower has a black/white mentality upon entering ANOTHER SET RULES OF ISOLATION. Isolated more and more............the "heel" tries to survive without the foot or the leg much less the rest of the body.

Are splinter groups "havens" for ex-twiers? Seems to me.......one doesn't have to look any further than *the big two* -- CES & the Geerite group -- to dismantle JAL's statement. Even after one switched to a twi-lite group, CES, look at it's dogmatic short history..........within a few short years the CES leadership was implementing Momentus, a highly contraversial method of "intervention" or whatever. It had disastorous and lasting effects on many. Later, this CES hierarchy moved towards a Prophet Council, a High Prophetess, personal prophecy, nose-spiders, slanderous "prophecies," marriage mettling, etc. etc. The geerite group has gone the route of "franchising" its classes.........contracts, fees, extraction percentages of abs, and the constant "measuring stick" of cgeer's oversight. From some who've left, I've heard of the geer-adulation thing andthat *mark/avoid* practices are very similar to twi's. Just seems like a pecking order goes along with the class/bible/fellowship system......if you DON"T take the class they offer (at a set price), then you are on the short side of the pecking order. It's the nature of the beast. Probably the same for one's financial giving. <_<

Yes, WD.....you are correct, the propaganda term used in the 70's was freely avail themselves......especially if one were to stay in Kansas and never go WOW or into the Corps. BUT............GreaseSpot offers a forum of discussion than debunks twi's propaganda as real life testimonies expose the escalation of manipulation, coersion, and exploitation. The twi spin can NO LONGER be spun......without being challenged by those of us who were there. Sure, you can stick with your little "propaganda blatherings" but those pigs don't fly around here. The wierwille cult was NOT the haven it propagated to be.......not spiritually, not socially, not voluntarily. The wheels of controlling agendas were always grinding behind the scenes and far from view of the naive newcomers.

So true. Since exiting twi, I've attended probably 20 different churches.........and I gotta say, MY TWI-JADED CRITICISM was put in check rather quickly. One church was going thru a teaching series on Colossians......at another church, one preacher went thru Ephesians 2. I found far more scripture expounding that I imagined. And......one lady invited me to her Women's Bible Study that has been steadily growing since 1982. Well......being a man, I was very reluctant, but she insisted that some men drop in every once in a while. So I went..........and, wow, what an eye-opener!!! With nearing 275 faithful......THAT was really neat to see. Each year they handle one specific book in the Bible and a dynamic woman handles the background, culture, biblical significance, spiritual insight, etc. And, she showed me the Tape Library and year by year log. Last year, when I attended.......they were handling the books of I & II Timothy. So, WD.......you might be surprised what is *out there* if you weren't looking thru those twi-jaded glasses. <_<

In many ways.....the "re-packaging" is WORSE. Reasons being.....many of these splinter groups have a hierarchy entrenched in arrogance and entitlements. Like MLM systems, the "upper tier" preys on the newbies bringing new blood to the meetings, to the signing papers. The system is flawed on so many levels.........most of which violate the principles of outreach in the early church. Just as twi has waxed worse and worse..........so have the splinters, imo. Manipulation and exploitation are NOT intricate parts of christian doctrine and service.

This following statement, on the CES/STF sub-forum, intrigues me: Unlike churches.....that have local involvement, support groups, youth ministers, childrens' fellowship, etc. etc.......what is the "haven" that splinter groups offer? Are those "havens" of doctrine only?......i.e. "we teach same doctrine, same believer's meetings, same JCNG stuff, greek words, etc"?? From 1986-1989, how many went to these "haven" splinter groups??? THOUSANDS..!!! By 2004, CES/STF is exposed as a "nose-spider, high prophetess, lawsuit filed" splinter group that went thru the 1990's embrasing Momentus and other crazy side-treks. Is that a "haven?" Recently, reports are reaching GS that the Geerite group is diminishing as these "franchise/splinter leaders" do NOT want to pay the fees on geer's class contracts. Is this a "haven" that vanished. In the end...........it seems like some people stayed in twi, some people left, some people jumped into a splinter group, some people never joined, some finally left twi, some saw the scam in CES and Cgeer.........and the "haven" is TRUST THE LORD AND BEWARE OF SCAMS. <_<

Yeah.......claiming that he could be some ceo for a fortune 500 company. But.........the most grandiose claim that I ever heard from craiggers was in February 1997. When martinfail's "revelation" from God to have all field corps on twi's payroll and the numbers were dismal and pressure was mounting as finances dwindled in twi's coffers. So.......as martindale is, martindale does..........he escalates his confrontation assaults to the corps on a corps phone hook-up and bellows: I could run every twig in the country from hq if I had to.

I agree.........by 1979, gone. Sure some had "a learning experience" while out WOW........but the program was a fiasco. Wierwille and his yes-men had no concept of Christian outreach, guidelines, etc. It was a slipshod operation on a meager budget. By 1979, the hype and hoopla in twi was grinding to a halt......imo.

.....due to THEIR not measuring up. Translation from Cgeer's pov: It's THEIR fault.....they won't obey me. Translation from "their" pov: It's a scam.............I ain't paying Cgeer any more "franchise fee."

EXACTLY........ An obscure franchise marketing campaign with mobile taco stands in LA. Didn't attract a 1,000th of a percent in the mexican-style food industry in LA. Nor did it attract a 100,000th of a percent in the fast food industry in LA. And, those who like nice restaurants and fine dining in LA....never heard of it. Like......little twig fellowships in LA is "Word over LA" -----> and "Word over the world"

Along with "The Prevailing Word" lingo........ .....the "new and improved" version was Confronting the world with the word.

To add a little more to this....... 1) "Word over the world" was replaced by..........The Prevailing Word 2) The wow auditorium was renamed.................The Prevailing Word Auditorium 3) PFAL class was updated by............................The Way of Abundance and Power 4) The corps program was retitled.....................WC2 5) New themes in twi........................................The Promised Land of the Prevailing Word All of this before the 2nd mighty...............................THUD.

Yeah...........worldwide McW and a clown salesman.

Prior to martindale's declaration that "the word was over the world".......he assigned John R3ynolds, the international outreach coordinator, to put together a report. In knee-jerk fashion, John spear-headed this requested report by documenting such things as: 1) adding a history of countries where fellowships and classes were available, 2) where military had been stationed, 3) translation work of priority languages, 4) the Zaire believers' impact on the continent of Africa, and other aspects. Of course, the standard indoctrination in twi was to present this "revelation" and "documentation" to the corps FIRST...... and once they are "on board," THEN declare it to the twi followers. When manipulation and intimidation rule, like in twi, information is delivered and responses are gauged before proceeding to level 2. The corps were the troops to help disperse information, squelch questioning and carry out conformity. Imo.......by 1995, martindale was ready to step away from living in wierwille's shadow. Martindale had, now, distanced himself from "the fog years" by some six years and was ready to STAMP HIS MARK on twi's legacy. On several corps teachings, lcm reiterated that HIS MINISTRY WAS INDICATIVE OF THE NUMBER 2........twi's 2nd corps director, twi's 2nd president, 2nd this, 2nd that. He was "the man who established what wierwille started." And, he was going to re-do vic's foundational class. As one reflects back on the context of this "the word is over the world"........here is the context: 1) 1993 - 1994.............genuine suspicion, homo purge, living sanctified 2) 1995.......................declaration of "word over the world, last ROA, and "revelation" to put corps full-time 3) 1996.......................prevailing word terminology, new lcm WAP class, crossing over into "promised land" 4) 1997.......................all wierwille stuff was "old-wine skins," new intermediate class (WAP), more legalism 5) 1998.......................new adv class (WAP)....all old grads need new updated class.....Martindale-mania 6) 1998.......................June Advanced Class.......martindale is caught having sex with a married corps woman 7) 1999.......................P & F Allen leave hq after confronting lcm on sexual predation In the context of "revelations".........it should be noted that martindale's "revelation" of all corps going full-time and taking the ministry to great heights FAILED MISERABLY. Within months of this 1995 "revelation" the trunk department was scrambling to handle the overwhelming financial responsibility of having all the field corps on twi's payroll. Yes, within two months, martindale was yelling on corps meetings to sniff out any corps that were not "truly corps." Another witch-hunt was in progress......it was crazy.........again!!! Twi's concept of "word over the world" was wierwille's narcisstic attempt and agenda of having pfal classes running worldwide so that "EVERYBODY WILL LISTEN TO ME." Clearly, in the end..........imo, this re-packaging of "pfal concepts and cult servitude" had very little resemblance of God's Authorship of His Word to the ends of the earth: Acts 1:8 <_<

More clearly to the point.............yes, this house was built to her specifications. Much of it was contracted out......but some of us did help T3rry B@der, who was the way builder coordinator after h0bbs. After 5 pm work hours and saturdays, mostly. Yes......she had the money and obviously did NOT want to build on twi property. Perhaps, she saw how the Re@hard home was "gobbled up" in those years after bo and stanl3y left twi. <_<

Twinky.....to answer a few of these questions. 1) Rosie's house was under construction in 1987. Some on staff helped......like me. 2) Rosie has money.....land in North Carolina.......etc. Old threads on this. 3) Like some others on staff, Rosie has money, investments, etc. 4) Much or most came from Rosie's past.....divorce? / whatever. 5) No, I don't think that this was a loan from the Credit Union. 6) Pressured to surrender it??..........hahahahahahaha <_<

TheHighWay........EXACTLY! Sadly, so many of us corps can relate........what a pathetic waste of time, money and potential. Imo.........there were TWO parallel realities in my corps experience: 1) My intense desire to love and serve the Lord and walk in the steps of Jesus Christ and 2) Heeding the teachings and principles of the corps program which, deceitfully, twisted scripture, suppressed individuality, and was laced with wierwille-idolatry. At times, when I walked in God's power, I witnessed miracles and healings.......sometimes, special little "God-moments" just for me. But mostly, the regimentation and heavy-handed leadership blanketed the program in control and oppression. But, succinctly........I think that the gospel teaching on "wheat and tares" says it all. Having grown up in the rural midwest.......wheat fields were part of my childhood. By early May, the lush green wheat fields were quickly maturing toward those "amber waves of grain." Sometimes, poor farming or weather conditions left wheat fields in a sparse reality wherein weeds grew in the gullys, or lowlands after ponds evaporated. Weeds were the outcropping of poor farming methods or drastic weather changes. When winter wheat was planted in the Fall (September) and went into its dormant stage through the winter.........by Spring, it was lush and full, leaving no opportunity for weeds to grow and overtake the wheat. While some refer to "Leaving Egypt with the gold".......... I tend to think that......as long as I faithfully plant my "wheat fields," my harvest will be plentiful. :)

Yeah.........not only is THE CONTENT "guided by God".....but THE ORDER of the content was also "guided by God" to give us a certain order that was best for us. There is no end to wierwille's mogshipness, is there? Too bad wierwille never ordered HIS STEPS in god's word.

No.....Rhoda married Ruben Wierwille.

Yeah.......when twi accountants worked the numbers to find the threshold where twi's investments could sustain the corporation in spite of any loss in revenue.....i.e. abundant sharing. A financial "perpetual motion" agenda.........i.e. pyramid structure devised by wierwille, fueled by pfal and sunday teaching tapes, with programs like WOW and Way Corps "fanning the flames" to arrive at said threshold. perpetual motion  –noun Mechanics. the motion of a theoretical mechanism that, without any losses due to friction or other forms of dissipation of energy, would continue to operate indefinitely at the same rate without any external energy being applied to it.

Well, tzaia......guess I read it differently. George didn't "blame twi" for his choices.............what he SAID was "let me give you some specifics that maybe will help you understand why some folks don't get all warm and fuzzy when asked about WOW. Sounds different to me, I guess. <_<

Uh......sure it was his (George's) decision to make. Why are you "rather amazed" at how people have turned against what was believed at one time? Guess I don't quite follow your train of thought on this one, tzaia. Youthful decisions don't always pan out. Isn't that why some cultures are very demanding that parents, or grandparents, are involved in decision-making? And..........reflecting on past decisions, or mistakes, helps us to avoid repeating those mistakes and avoid abusive relationships. Heck......some people exited twi and went to a splinter group for years too. So?

Throughout my twi tenure and post-twi tenure, I've pondered and, at times, struggled with the aspect of defining my beginning steps and long journey in twi. Clearly, I was hungering for more truth.....and a "research ministry" sounded so appealing when I signed the green card. Had I simply taken pfal and resumed my life, I tend to believe that vpw's class would have provided a "base camp" from which I could have kept ascending to the summit. After all, my beginning steps of commitment were to......only take this class, pfal. But......strategically, and cunningly, wierwille had devised a system of programs that would keep neophites, like me, on a treadmill and "paying for the use of their workout program." Yes, it was a programming. It was subtle and divisive......isolating youth and implanting new terminology, new idealisms, new programs. Like DontWorry.........I agree that the more involvement, the more programs one signed on for, the tares of vic's corruption took root choking individuality and true spiritual identity.

Okay.............I brought my "marbles" over here to play in your sandbox.