skyrider

Okay........you did some twi work days..........so? YOU are the one who pounds the gavel for accuracy. YOU are the one who pounds the desk to cite authority. YOU were spouse corps..........YOUR nametag designated it. YOU were spouse corps. Are you ashamed of that? And.....if you don't like that designation, how about Post-Program Participant. Sorry, WhiteDove.....you can't have it BOTH ways. You can't state inaccuracies.........and be accurate. <_<

No, WhiteDove.......you were give spouse corps recognition, because you married a corps graduate. You were not a "program participant"..........hence, the designation on your nametag SPC_ _. For the record, it is common knowledge to most that.......wierwille never embraced the spouse corps program. In several meetings when this corps issue was addressed, wierwille openly stated that the twi standard was for this four-year training program. Yet, like so many changes and growing concerns..........exceptions were made. J0hnny T0wnsend was an exception when vpw allowed him to be recognized corps. JAL was an exception.....one year as corps coordinator. Military men were given exceptions to head out when called into service. Say what you want, WD......but you were NOT a "program participant" as rascal noted. You married into a woman who graduated from the corps program. Period. Why do you think that it was HIGHLY RECOMMENDED for spouse corps to eventually go inresidence? Why do you think that wierwille wanted JAL to experience one year at Emporia, surrounded by the corps experience daily......for one year? Why do you think that wierwille brought the 4th corps back into HQ for several months for more training? You exult wierwille's pfal to the skies..........yet, you dismiss wierwille's corps program and standards. Why? You, WD, are the one who goes to great lengths to explain in detail the letter of criminal law......yet, you sidestep wierwille's endorsement and value of a four-year corps program with two years inresidence. Somehow you tend to dismiss this with a wave of the hand. lol You missed all those 5:20 am teachings in Emporia.....you missed those 16-18 hour days of teaching/work......you missed the time when emporia twigs switched dorm rooms moving boxes for 3 hours in a kansas blizzard........you missed those nights on bless patrol with only 3 hours of sleep......you missed the droning of sharings past midnight.......you missed the fire alarm alerts at 2:30am.......you missed the public humiliation of reciting retemories without warning.......you missed the hundreds of hours of setting up the dining room, or teaching rooms, or backstage, or cracking eggs at 4 am..........you missed the regimentation, the indoctrination, the yell-fests, and the risks on LEAD........you missed Lighbearers and trying to get a pfal class together in two weeks......you missed sleeping in a bedroom of 30 snoring men......you missed plucking weeds during your morning workshift......you missed the micromanagement of flossing schedules, aerobic points, killing chickens, cleaning swamps, etc........you missed wierwille slurring words on drambuie breath.......you missed hundreds and thousands of hours of manipulation, guilt and exploitation by not being INRESIDENCE. In contrast, you walked up the aisle.....looked your lovely bride in the eyes.....and said, I DO. And, because she was a corps grad......twi granted you the spouse corps designation with stipulations that your wife would "raise you up to be corps." And, even then......MANY spouse corps decided to go thru the inresidence program together. Even in the early 90s, twi went back to wierwille's "original guidance" which was NO SPOUSE CORPS PROGRAM. In conclusion.........let me say, in retrospect I believe that the corps program was much more an indoctrinational program than a corps training. I could care less whether one is or isn't a "corps grad." WD.....for one who is a stickler on accuracy, you sure speak with broad generalities when it comes to being spouse corps. What gives? Are you ashamed of being spouse corps?

On so many levels, the corps "training" was a "boot camp" of.......indoctrination, competitiveness, submission and servitude. That's why some of us don't get any warm fuzzies from our inrez daze. And......some of us don't care to go to a 'corps only' website. <_<

Ain't that the truth of the matter........... Read George Mueller.........look at his believing. See, that's how you walk by believing.....yada, yada, yada. No mention of love, concern and welfare of the kids through the years. No mention of the service to the community. No mention of the thousands of hours of monthly workload that such an undertaking entailed. The twi a-g-e-n-d-a was to promote "the law of believing"......to promote the wierwille cult. Selective scriptures........selective teachings.......cherry-pick here a little.......cherry-pick there a little. <_<

On the Why were we vulnerable? thread.....rascal said: In wierwille's twi where "the law of believing" was the bedrock of the abundant life.........more often than not, bullies were fast-tracked thru the corps program and given major leadership assignments. One doesn't have to look much further than wierwille's closest confidant, Cgeer, to understand what wierwille wanted and valued. When one strips away the facade of corps "leadership training".......wierwille surrounded himself with his kind....Birds of a feather, flock together. And, imo.....this explains why there was NO level playing field in twi. Even rosalie was fast-tracked into wierwille's "club of favorites".......no surprise there. Back in the 70s, the book The Man of Steel and Velvet was recommended reading. About half of the book (some six chapters?) illustrated and augmented the steel side of man, the other chapters the velvet side. Scriptures were cited in the book.....and BALANCING THESE TWO SIDES was how Jesus lived and impacted the multitudes. At times, Jesus faced the death threats of religious hierarchy and hours later, he's nurturing the little children. To carry this illustration further......twi exclusively promoted "the steel side." Don't take sheet from nobody...."it's my way or the highway".......it's in there, no further research needed......anyone who leaves twi is a cop-out. Connecting the dots back to wierwille......it was bullying tactics. The three-member trustee setup was nothing more than window-dressing......what wierwille wanted, wierwille got. Heck, he even put soft-spoken ermal and brother harry next to him..........HOW CONVENIENT. There was no opposing voice to speak for the lowly, the humble, the meek of heart. The deck was stacked and the dealers were the bullies. No wonder twi basicly folded its operation shortly after wierwille's death......and the bullies moved on, to run their own crystal-ball tent operations.

NIKA.....yeah, a "truth about twi" website." Interestingly, those twi websites have NO DISCUSSION FORUMS.........even after all these years, YOUR VIEWPOINTS AND OPINIONS DO NOT MATTER. Even the D@ve Br0wn guy in FL......when he started that twi-website, it was only a short time before it was censored. Control is always an issue with twi..........even with their "faithful" followers. But like Groucho said......."Waydale was created in response to the sexual abuse generated towards the wife of Waydale's creator...There was a lawsuit against twi, and as a result, LCM was booted. This happened in part because of the many threads that exposed twi for what they were..." IMO............as the corroboration of information on Waydale kept building month after month, many of us had multiple "AHA" moments......the light bulbs went off......the pieces of the puzzle started fitting together......martindale was a sexual predator........BUT SO WAS WIERWILLE. In peeling off the layers of onion.......waydale exposed wierwille who founded the twi-system to facilitate his agendas, his lusts. Most, at the time, could easily see martindale ousted as the fall guy.......no problem. But when the attacks mounted on wierwille.......the counter-posters had to defend their idol. For me......it took a bit to FINALLY REALIZE that wierwille was a wholesale plagairist, a drunkard, a sexual predator, an opportunist and narcissist preying on wow-girls and corps women. Waydale was an open forum to finally discuss the other side of twi.....and the pieces of the puzzle started fitting together. No preconceived agenda.......other than to TELL YOUR STORIES AND EXPRESS YOUR VIEWPOINTS. NOW......nearly 10 years later, the "puzzle is fitted together." GreaseSpot continued on the path that Waydale started.... adding and augmenting the accounts by posts and radio. The outline, the details, the intricacies of the abusers and abusees are documented........with no fear of reprisal FINALLY the voices are heard. In the end, with all this documentation...............yes, now, twi is an anti-twi website.

Yeah.....it's very similar to those MLM systems. The "big guys"......the deal-closers......stay in their offices while the newbies peddle the product, bring in family and friends and co-workers, and spend time/money to get to this reward platform. At the meeting, there are smiles.....and small talk.... and a couple of personal testimonies. But.....THE VIDEO......shows the product, shows the benefits, shows the way to financial success......THE VIDEO IS MESMERIZING. Where are the foot-washers? Where are the men who risk life and limb to stand for the power of God? Where are the George Muellers who start an orphanage of 150-190 kids....to prove that God's love and power will intervene time and time again to help this undertaking of believing God daily?

geisha.....I do not know of any twi offshoots who have praise and worship services, at least not in the since that churches do. There are so many offshoots out there its hard to say.....with each passing decade, the splinters are splintering. Heck, from what I understand about the geer group, it seems like there are more and more leaders distancing themselves from geer's classes and fees ......thus subdivisions branching out under the "geer umbrella." From what I see, these splinter groups are NOT a part of their community....no associations with fellow pastors, service groups, mission shelters, food charities, etc. Like twi, these splinter groups embellish the "zion" aspect of staying fortified and set apart.......it builds their illusion of elitism. All roads lead to teaching........because it's the essence of their "job responsibility." They want it that way, because it's the EASY WAY. Plus, it's the ROAD MOST TRAVELED......... the pavement is smooth, the traveling is easy........and mostly, one-person-per-car. Service-oriented projects take WORK..........lots of work. Communication, organization, rallying a work force, time commitments, physical involvements and/or risk, hours and hours on your feet, etc. etc. And yeah.......if their TEACHINGS and CLASSES are to get the individual to higher learning .........WHY IS THERE NOT A PLATEAU OF UNDERSTANDING WHERE THE INDIVIDUAL CAN NOW READ IT FOR HIMSELF/HERSELF? <_<

And.......I find it amusing that you continue to try and create compelling arguments supporting wierwille's ministry when you've never gone WOW, never went inresidence corps........or never viewed much of twi outside of Kansas. Say what you will, WD......it's a discussion forum. Just because you post alot doesn't mean you have any credibility. And, when you say that posters here "gang up on you" it's because you're "a pot calling the kettle black" or you're using twi propaganda to explain twi and twi programs. Of course, you already know that.....you seek conflict. <_<

Thanks, waysider.....lots in there. I especially took note of........"The term catharsis has also been adopted by modern psychotherapy, particularly Freudian psychoanalysis, to describe the act of expressing, or more accurately, experiencing the deep emotions often associated with events in the individual's past which had originally been repressed or ignored, and had never been adequately addressed or experienced." Lots of my past was repressed or ignored. :)

Or........"If you continue to repeat the same mistakes that twi taught....you will slide down the same slippery slope." Isn't there a "definition for insanity like (paraphrased).....'Insanity is repeating the same process over and over expecting a different outcome.'

Thanks for the thread, rascal.......this question is perplexing, isn't it? This discussion reminds me of..........Transition and Transference

Yeah............the exploitation, the loss of opportunity, the years of productive life, the abuse...ALL are in direct proportion to THE LONGER ONE STAYED WITH TWI. I would agree that corps women were most vulnerable, but would add that the emasculating of corps men also had devastating, and abusive, ramifications. The alpha male syndrome of the wierwille cult had an abusive effect.....down thru the ranks, down thru the wolf pack.....biting and devouring one another. Much like the domestic abuse that arises from hardcore military men.........the corps environment embellished the same trends, the same escalation. Of course, this is most pronounced in the corps ranks......THAT is where wierwille totted his "top prize"....his "highest praise".....his "top-pick promotions." I don't know the corps divorce ratios, but would wager to say that it triples the divorce rate in non-corps ranks. Wierwille's legacy of "greatness"......is most deeply defined and DEBUNKED.......in the corps program.

Are there no more John Wesleys or George Muellers in the world..? <_<

Yet........everyone has a psalm, a doctrine and a TEACHING TAPE to send you.

Why are all those twi splinter groups "teaching ministries?" I know it's been said that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"..........but if they want to put their own brand on it, why is it boxed the same? Could it be........that this is the fast track to funneling the money in? Could it be........that home fellowships afford the best profit margin, the most control? Could it be........that these guys like the uppermost seats of honor and adulation? Could it be........that knowledge puffeth up and the perks are better? Could it be........that a comfy desk and nearby pulpit is inviting to the 60-something crowd? Could it be........that a scam is a scam is a scam?

Aww, yes.........simplicity. One has to be very cunning and subtle to sway the course of the committed. Inch by inch, word by word, class by class, program after program...........the simplicity is corrupted. In isolated doses.......here a little, there a little.....it goes undetected. But over time......the abuse is registered and here at GreaseSpot the collaberation of material is overwhelmingly convincing. Back in the 70s, who would have ever envisioned a discussion forum on the world wide web to compare and cross-check thousands of first-hand accounts? Can't say that we weren't warned..... 2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

WD.....you continue in this black/white mentality. Its YOU against GS.......every statement, every opinion challenges you. Had you gone WOW or inresidence corps, or left your state......you might have more exposure to the ills and abuses in twi. Even I have stated that there was some good in twi.....else, why would so many of us have stayed there all those years? When you, WD, make blanket statements like "no good statement must be tolerated"......you simply expose your lack of critical thinking skills and your defensive posturing for wierwille/twi. Life just isn't that simple.....all black or all white. Isn't it time to move away from this juvenile black/white mentality?

The USA Today articles on A-Rod....(dubbed A-Fraud, by some)....expanded on the modern reality that steroids and their ilk have dumped upon sport -- baseball as much as any. After steroids, the charm of a simple game has vanished. In a similar manner.........the 'charm' of a simple bible class, and programs, is tainted by the modern reality that wierwille was NOT a man of God.....but A-Fraud. All that he purported to be, he was not......imo. What he was.......was a plagairist, an opportunist, a masked-"minister," a sexual predator, and a host of other ilk. He deceived himself and many others unto death.......no confessions, no coming clean, no court of law. No, wierwille didn't take PED (performance-enhanced drugs)......but his "performance" was enhanced by BG Leonard's class that vpw stole and claimed as his own. How many other "injections" did wierwille get? How many articles and booklets did wierwille plagairize to gain momentum......before "his" books came into print? One could easily make the case that those Jesus movement guys......h3fner/doop/others..... "injected" twi with more performance-enhanced godliness. There was a time some 30 years ago......when I thought that running pfal classes was equivalent to the *box score* of word over the world. It was simple.........right? Just run classes and the "word" was moving. No, there wasn't peanuts and crackerjacks.......or the seventh-inning stretch.....but it was simple and believable. Besides, I was young. Now......not so much. The modern reality of twi's ilk has darkened my view of past involvement. At one time, it seemed so simple........now, it's so complex. Yes.......It was A-Cult. Wierwille was A-Fraud.

I wonder if Mike is reading this thread?

EXACTLY ! If the burden of proof were upon THEM to prosecute.......imagine the ramifications? the local newspapers of st. marys & new bremen & wapokenta? the twi followers would hear WAY MORE than twi ever wanted? Waydale started in April 1999. It's been nearly 10 years and twi only took action with respect to j.p. wierwille's allegations of how twi was handling his mother. Pl@tig was the point man to confront that issue on Waydale. But any attempts or threats to silence the "Dr" wierwille stuff?????............none, zip, nada

socks......forgive me, it was a poor attempt at humor. I've spent way too much time in twi's system of indoctrination and sounds like you got a good 10-year head start on me in gleaning some concise, logical, unbiased thinking. Take care, my friend.

Yeah.......the study of Paul and Tyrannus is intriguing. Open discussion and rhetorical debate in Paul's day, where interested participants could freely come and go at will.......is MILES APART from twi's confining, legalistic, regimentation of a "spiritual" marine corps. Perhaps, the first three or four corps had limited access to *open discussion* with wierwille, but I seriously doubt it. Notwithstanding the fact that as the corps numbers swelled to say, 345..........by 1980, the corps program was a herding process, imo. It's clear to me............EVERYTHING I LEARNED FROM TWI IS SUSPECT. And, in the latest attempt at "tyrannus"........the S.O.W.E.R.S program, linked to CFF, is trying to re-address the wierwille model of corps "training" and do it right this time. Yet, the isolated farm in the state of Mississippi....far from the concept of a "lecture hall" in tyrannus....should send red flags to anyone who knows scripture. Maybe.........GreaseSpot Cafe is the nearest thing I'm ever going to find in OPEN DISCUSSION and DEBATE. :)

Yes.....the point-by-point comparison between TWI and CFF is made. Obviously, the comparison highly favors the CFF organization in every category. Of the 26 comparisons.........#24 is one of the zingers, explaining that researchers who assisted vpw/lcm are now embedded in CFF's efforts. Imo....it would have been better to end with a summarizing paragraph and direction, but I didn't find it confusing. The hemoragging of twi continues...........reports from others keep saying -- it is so b-o-r-i-n-g.

Socks.....drawing on the Acts as a blueprint for christian outreach and christian living, I see a pattern of believers/disciples who, mostly, STAYED PUT in their areas and witnessed God's power and deliverance. Sure, the scriptures keynote the lead men, like Peter & James & Paul & Silas etc. etc.....but the MULTITUDES weren't in outreach programs leaving their families and livelihood behind. The men with gift ministries were on the move, yes.......but these local areas and cities where the craftsmen, tradesmen, businessmen, fishermen, etc rose up to lead their extended families and such. In retrospect......I think that the WOW Ambassador program was built on false premises of "moving the word." By using isolated scriptures, wierwille led us to believe that this was God's plan for outreach......when, in fact, the scriptures do NOT endorse this setup. For many, it took a majority of the year to gain support and trust in these new areas. Needless to say, many WOWs succombed to the challenges of vulnerability and temptation and isolation that crippled their growth for years, or worse. Interesting to think that today's twi does NOT send "way disciples" far and away..........hmmmmmm??? And, the corps program...........maybe corps 1-5 had some resemblance to "the school of Tyrannus" but as the corps numbered into the 300-375, it seemed more like a herding process and a cloning factory, imo. Heck, even meal time evolved into *announcement time*.....there were just too many sub-meetings all the time. No allowances for one to attend funerals/weddings/thanksgiving......it was manipulating and controlling and isolating. The underlying emphasis was always on "listen, remember and obey"........NOT LEADING. Even ordination and new corps assignments every three years........if I recall correctly, Philip the evangelist moved over to Caesarea and raised his family [four daughters who later prophesied that Paul not go to Jerusalem]. Yet, twi never taught us scriptures like THAT.......why?? Because there was an a-g-e-n-d-a. Certain scriptures were lauded to the skies.....other scripture got the silent treatment. SO MANY LEFT TWI.......seeing through the cloak of deceitfulness. Men like Rev. L0nnell J0hnson saw thru this manipulation and left twi around 1984/85.......and LOOK where he is today?? STILL very active in Christian work and got his doctorate.....and authored a book or two. Yeah......it's been a wild and crazy ride, but the long detour is over. Hopefully, I'm regaining the proper perspective of the Acts of the Apostles and God's intent for Christian living. Uprightness of heart is a good start.