skyrider

tzaia.....okay, I'll step back and try to clarify. Although I can understand somewhat your questions......for some of us GS-posters, this has been discussed infinitum in the 97 pages of threads. Many, many good threads handle the manipulative techniques, exploiting the youth, vpw's narcissism, corps indoctrination, etc. etc. etc. While I can understand your interest in a current discussion....I just want to tell you that some of us have been posting on Waydale and GreaseSpot for 10 years and, now, spend our time on other things. Perhaps, you'll get a lively discussion going on this thread......but I gotta tell you, that the archives are loaded with this topic. Yet, if you address this discussion with......"wierwille warned us, I heeded his warning so why didn't you?".....or, "I wasn't fooled and stayed uncommitted, but why did you WOWs/Corps fall prey?"....you might want to rethink this approach. Just saying... Anyways, I need to get back to work. Take care. :)

geisha779.......yes, the original post on this thread has a SMUGNESS to it. For anyone who follows GS regularly.....this poster has stated this "what the he11 were you WOW's and Corps amd FellowLaborers thinking" question MANY TIMES in various forms. Hence, my post above addresses two points. YET........this poster went and spend years in CES, where elitism reigns supreme.

First of all......why is it ALWAYS about crediting wierwille? More than the pfal class, more than the collaterals.......don't the scriptures WARN US to not follow man? Secondly..........some NOT ONLY didn't heed these warnings, but also jumped to the CES "ship" and sailed further on a strayed voyage. <_<

I was assigned to be Mrs. W's escort at Word in Business two consecutive years. For five days, from 7am-10pm my responsibilities included a wide-range of demanding vigilance [15-hours a day]. This corps-assigned work responsibility required extreme patience, protocol, precision and persistence......with very little personal time throughout the week. When she took a bathroom break....I needed to take a bathroom break (so as NOT to expect her to wait for me). It was a grueling week of work.......both years at WIB. Yes, Mrs. W usually gets a free pass around GS......but from someone who spent, at least, 10 full days with her, (and staying in her home a time or two) she soaked in the spotlight just like her hubby. On so many occasions, the "spiritual protocol" overwhelmed the common sense of the moment. She enjoyed people.....yes. But she ALSO enjoyed the spotlight as "twi's first lady." On a couple of occasions, my actions were not as responsive to her liking......and her glares were cold and riveting. She held her own in wielding "power" and Don Wierwille was close by to watch my servitude as well. And......the "gift table" in her WIB suite was loaded with fine items (both years).

Bumping a discussion from the past. Maybe......this will help the SOWER grad.

And........didn't vicster build his homespun wayworld from a share of dad-wierwille's inheritance of the farm? Gee, only four years after the Van Wert pastorate, 1957, when his employment was terminated....veepee was a-building his wierwille road & hwy 29 empire. Did it take inheritance money to catalyze his believing?

On another thread, this post from Chockfull needs repeating......and its own thread. And, reading the next verse.........Abstain from all appearance of evil. Far too many were indoctrinated into "the way of wierwille's rightly-divided word".........and GreaseSpot is needful to point out THE EVIL (ie doctrinal deception, unbridled adulation to mogs, sexual predation, financial exploiting, manipulation, plagiarism issues, etc. etc.). Later, under martindale's regime, the buzz-phraseology morphed to "the present truth"......another bewitching from obeying the truth, the scriptures. Thankfully, this site GreaseSpot, addresses the other side of twi to help us PROVE ALL THINGS. Open dialogue is a beautiful thing. :)

Mark.......exactly. Why the big secret to conceal wierwille's wrecking his motorcylce? IMO, it goes back to all the red flags of CONTROLLING INFORMATION.....COMMON IN CULTS. What? The MOG crashed his motorcycle? Where was his believing? Didn't God tell him to slow down? You mean, the MOG is NOT infallible? Oh, the questions that keep coming. To me, more telling is the fact that twi CONCEALED THE MATTER......just like the facts regarding veepee's eye. And, just like withholding the medical reasons regarding wierwille's death. Wierwille died from cancer.....and yet, did twi ever recant the wierwille-teaching of cancer as a devil spirit? You see..........way before chri$ geer read his pop paper the red flags were FLYING EVERYWHERE. sorry.....not trying to derail topic at hand.

Yeah.....like twi-classified information. A few select individuals were assigned the "secret mission" of repairing the twig-hopper. A make-shift painting booth was assembled in one of the back aisles of twi's warehouse and five or six guys worked around the clock to conceal the matter. Although I was not allowed to see it.....I heard that the motorcycle front fender was bent, turning lights bent/broken and left side was damaged/dented/scraped. The Ambassador One guys and a couple of others provided the extremely detailed painting and decal work.....adding upgrades to this 1982 gift from Living Victoriously. Now you know.

I stayed far too long, because........I thought that, by God's grace. my life made a difference (in twi). Clearly, I had no idea how deep the wierwillian idolatry ran nor the powerful effects of indoctrination tactics and manipulation techiques that fed the beast (twi) its daily meal. In 1976.....the CF&S class raised some red flags, by I persisted onward. In 1977.....PFAL '77 was not "good enough" to replace the '67 plaf class. Hmmm? In 1978.....I saw wierwille go ballistic when three 8th corps had done some tangent research. Excuse me???? In 1979.....at Adv. Class 79, the Jonestown cult/suicide explanation seemed to raise questions for twi too. ??? In 1980.....wierwille was pontificating his *camp gunnison/restaurant expansion plans and senior retirement plan. In 1981.....LEAD program was having problems / leaders quitting and cover-ups. In 1982.....wierwille's choice for next prez was martindale. Not revelation...just boot-licker. In 1983.....more legalism was creeping into all aspects of "the way tree." In 1984.....wierwille wrecks *twig-hopper* and major silence of the incident...etc, etc. In 1985.....wierwille runs to Geer and dies of "a broken heart." Yeah, right. In 1986.....geer's power-grab ensues and, soon, other splinter groups set up own set of hoops. And, those are only the high points. <_< Etc. Etc. Etc. Lots of red flags thru the years......lots. But my critical thinking skills were trumped by doubts that so many others kept following relentlessly. Was I missing something?? Oh well....I've made tracks far away from twi these past 12 years.

According to CNN reports..........Jackson was some $400 million in debt. Even though he had made some strategic investments, the two molestation lawsuits had staggering legal fees.....and Michael was going through $2 million a month on crazy purchases and spending. Now, the Jackson children will probably have a better financial foundation/future with the death of their father.

Okay......now I've heard a few snippets on CNN, MSNBC and FOX. Of course, with requesting a 2nd autopsy and an investigation underway........the creditors and legal issues will have plenty of time to line up at the door. And RumRunner........Knight Skyrider [like Night Rider] does have a sorta ring to it. Thanks.

Although I can appreciate the life, legend and legacy of Michael Jackson........two days of non-stop coverage seems to be abit much, doesn't it? Maybe not (shrug). Guess it has all the intrigue, curiosity and mystery of a marilyn monroe, an elvis presley, an anna nicole smith.......etc. When will the money issues surface? The property? The creditors? Promoters and choreographers? Contracts and payroll? Legal contingencies? A will? His children? Family members and legal battles. Shouldn't be long now. <_<

Ham........anyone thrown out in the middle of the night? any newsletters or communication? any graduate? If it's based on the docvic program, then indoctrinees have to go forward to recruit others.....and cff's class must be the foundation of right teaching, right living??

Well.....being a "sonship right" (justification -- just-as-if-you-hadn't-sinned} it does bring poetic justice to light in prayer and supplication. :B)

For sure........ANYTHING that separated you from having your butt in a plaf-class chair was of the devil.

Oh yeah.....what a crock. Imagine how challenging it would have been to cart around five or six kids to every twig, every branch function and rock of ages? Sure, I remember two or three families like this........but it certainly wasn't the norm. And, when corps were assigned to different locations every three years.......moving kids from school to school would be crazy instability. Of course, I suppose home schooling would have its advantages in this type of lifestyle. Children have a way of bring you some reality to life. :)

On so many levels............twi-cult life is just regimented boredom and hypocrisy. In hindsight, I tend to see how this poverty level lends itself to all sorts of emotional abuse..........few friends, wayfer-hypocrisy zone, no music lessons, few school events, always sitting in twig meetings or "babysat" during classes, once turned 12 then expected to sit in class, always on the threshold of being reproved, very little freedom for childlike fun, etc. etc. etc. What about when the twi-teenager turns 16? A car to drive? Movies? Dating? Video games? Cell phone? School sports and events? In running to every twi activity for 15-20 years.........few twi parents had any extra money for their kids. Just scraping by for so many. No wonder the kids bolt when they turn 18.

Yeah.....blasphemy would sum it up quite well. <_< Sure any twi elitist *could* have saved mankind with perfect believing........(shrug). Clearly, the scriptures show the alignment of God's perfect plan coming to fruition.......geneology, royal bloodline ties, sinless blood, born in Nazareth, confronting the Pharisees, prophecies coming to pass, all the Passover and Lamb references, total oneness with God, dying on the cross, etc. etc...............sure "any wayfer" could have lived that life. Cheap grace.........cheap righteousness...........cheap doctrine.............cheap suits. :P

Didn't twi's slogan used to be..........God first, others second and I am willing to be third...........???

And what about this? 1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

And watch out..........if there ever comes a time when your family commitments and/or family vacations interrupt the flow of twi's schedule, then YOU are labeled as "putting your kids ahead of God." Or, worse........"worshipping your kids."

RumRunner......sorry to bring up a sore spot with ya. :) I know.......I seriously doubt that I could have made it thru Family Corps with seeing other adults smack my kids in the hallways or such. Clearly, the stories of the Rome City campus curl my blood.........but in all the exposing of wierwille and co. it only affirms the ongoing authoritarian figurehead and the henchmen who followed his lead. Thankfully, I went regular corps......and kept my kids at a safe distance from any of those abusers. One of my biggest regrets in life was allowing the twi machinery of classes and droning of meetings keep me from quality time with my kids........ie. baseball games, camping trips, school events, etc. Thankfully, my wife and I safeguarded excessive "abandonment" and did squeeze in plenty of special times and outings. But I can easily see, in hindsight, how the twi upper guys frowned on TOO MUCH QUALITY FAMILY TIME, because it ran at cross-purposes with "moving the word" and shining their image of leadership. Yeah, look at ALL "upper leadership" that had NO KIDS...........starting with ermal and dorothy owxns. And, how many region couples had NO KIDS............or only one? Yet, they supposedly had cornered the market on child-rearing and all. Yeah, riiiiiight. Sheeeesh. Then.............when you finally realize that your kids want NOTHING to do with twi when they reach adulthood, isn't that a clue to its lackluster impact? Even kids see the indoctrination and hypocrisy. And, now...............Rosalie sits at the top. And where are her two boys????

By definition, litmus test.....1. a test using litmus paper to determine whether a solution is an acid or a base. 2. any test in which a single factor determines the finding. By the late 70s, more and more children were going inresidence with the parent(s), attending twi's roa and events. The family corps was gearing up for this increase and procedures and policies were introduced......ie. wooden spoon, any corps adult can reprove (smack with wooden spoon) any child at rome city campus. IMO..........the dynamics of living, breathing young parents was becoming more common in the early 80s in twi as us youngsters moved thru the seasons of life. YET........twi had NO ANSWERS for proper child rearing [okay, maybe a couple of answers, but very, very few well-balanced in terms of identity, individuality, healthy boundaries, unconditional love, etc]. THEREFORE...........imo, children or child-rearing were the litmus test that determined whether twi was a healthy "church" organization or a cult of indoctrination. Children represent parental love, time commitments, change, growth, planning, devotion, development, stability, financial investments, future considerations, etc. etc.......more than two kids and the parental commitment increases exponentially with each passing year (lol). And, that's just normal situations........yet, if there are special needs or health issues, the love bond and family commitment may extend far beyond "normal." Parents are role models.........parents are life-savers and "heroes" when child-rearing is in its proper perspective. Twi was/is based on the methodology of indoctrinating young adults for its self-serving purposes. The classes and programs had NO PLACE for this growing influx of children. When did we see exemplary examples of parenthood in twi?? How about wierwille?...............did he set this father/child love relationship into proper perspective? NO. In wierwille's world............all attention was on him. How about other twi leaders? Don? Howard? LCM? Rosalie?.............twi's examples are quite clear. The parent/child relationship was not in harmony with the scriptures. The "litmus test" spoke volumes. The "new, dynamic church".........was NOT new.....was NOT dynamic.....and was NOT a church. As children grow...............add school events, boy/girl scouts, swimming lessons, music lessons, academics, sports, dating, prom, graduation, college visits, higher education, goals, weddings, etc. etc. and that's just the high notes. It's called a loving family living and growing together. Holidays together. Shutting off the "world" and being together. Proper love and boundaries without cult interference. No wonder twi frowns on "family time." No wonder twi FAILED the litmus test of children. <_<

Long gone are the days when twigs consisted of like 10-20 people. <_<