skyrider

If Craig Martindale could have pulled the switch to shut down the internet TEN YEARS AGO.....he would have. Waydale, and now Greasespot, have exposed twi and its splinter groups from pea soup to beer nuts. Do all forms of religion and government want to suppress dissenting information???? <_<

Really? I was on hq staff for 4 years......and never heard HA referred to as "uncle howard." It wasn't until after the cgeer power-grab (post 1991)....when twi was small again and no "uncle harry" around.....that this term surfaced.

Two things: 1) 7th grad, vanilla, drivel..........a dumbing-down of twi followers 2) cartoons......or caricatures, that way if someone leaves....NO FACE TO THOSE WHO LEAVE TWI.

Yes......the "uncle" term was one of those slick-vic tools of manipulation. You have to remember....many of the youth coming to hq around 1970-71 were hippie-types, rebellious towards family/establishment, some had deceased parents, or strained relationships, etc. etc. Add slick to crazy.......remember "aunt naomi" -- the one we rarily saw except when paraded across main stage at big events, the wife of "uncle harry?" Add crazy to insanity....post-1991, after the cgeer powergrab & fog-fiasco, lcm started referring to Howard Allen as UNCLE HOWARD. Totally serious......I kid you not.

I know, I know......this is NOT the political forum. BUT........just this morning, Venezuela has shut down radio broadcasting. The counter voice to Chevez's dictator policies is being silenced. I may be mistaken....but I thought I just heard that Chevez shut down one tv station that opposed his growing tyranny. Anyways.....gotta get to work.

And......so did many of those 1970s region/limb guys. They REPAID wierwille with many years of devoted loyalty.....yet, covertly building regional loyalty in their "kingdoms." They, too, had learned the lessons well from wierwille.....sectioning off a power base in incremental steps. Heck, even Emogene did that right under the nose of wierwille. She wielding a massive power base at hq.....as she moved her authority into printing, shipping, receiving, warehousing, etc. She dictated policy for "her" workers and every Thursday night, "her staff" worked a mandatory shift. The way corps program was an elitist, indoctrination program. Wierwille designed it and fueled its competitive nature. At times, wierwille pitted one leader against another.....subtly, of course. In his narcissism, he publically stroked the egos of some....only to foster more loyalty and favor from another. When I came on staff in 1978, the older good-hearted staff people were systematically being replaced by the new corps grads. Wierwille allowed it.....not taking a stand for those who had given 10-15 years of dedicated service to twi. The clergy, as well, were NOT a collective unit. From my staff position, wierwille was above reproach and his upper tier of clergy became above reproach. Monkey see, monkey do. The high-profile clergy followed wierwille and his policies......NOT the Scriptures, not the Lord Jesus Christ. Now...now, in retrospect, it is so clear that it was a MLM structure, a business, at best. But even more.......at worse, twi was a devilish con by a false prophet whose deception base was steal, kill, and destroy. Lives were stolen from godly service, money was stolen from true community/national efforts.....goals were dashed, dreams were killed.....lives were destroyed.

Yeah.....it WAS his fault that the "ministry" went down in flames. Along with H.E.'s death in the fall of 1977......Ermal died in July of 1979. In Feb/Mar of 1982, vpw ordained Cgeer and sent him to Europe. Clearly, the ultra-egos of Geer and Martindale could NOT be on the same continent together. Geer became the European Coordinator and the European Corps Coordinator along with a dozen other responsibilities. It didn't take but a few months and Cgeer was dictating policy of what "his" European corps would and wouldn't do. IMO....wierwille had lost the respect of many of his clergy by 1979/1980. Wierwille had grandeoise "visions".....but many in upper leadership were only counting the days until he retired. All those camp gunnison visions and sunset corps claims........never happened. Wierwille had become marginalized by 1980......his entourage was falling by the wayside. His Ambassador One pilot abruptly quit and left, a couple of bodyguard guys were publicly scolded and fired, and more than likely.....years of heavy smoking and alcoholism were catching up to his 63 year old body. Lots of things.

At least by the 1974 or so......he was referred to as "Uncle Harry." IMO....it was one of those "good ole days" endearing terms, when twi was little more than a farm, to add some wayspeak to the brc family clan. You gotta remember, vic was around 56 years old in 1972 and knew how to manipulate the fawning youth who came to Ohio for summer school or those early corps programs. Aw, shucks......it's good to have my keeeds home again.

So.....if this "Fairness Doctrine" were implemented in, say, five years.....would it be the end of sites like GreaseSpot overnight? I mean, surely,.....TWI, with its deep pockets, would have their lawyers all over every poster and statement that wasn't aligned with this "fair speech" doctrine. Right? All posts would be sanitized and all grievances would disappear.......poof, just like that. What a world......if the "speech police" came knocking on your door. What next?........thought police? :blink:

erkjohn........Yeah, this "Fairness Doctrine" is gaining some support. Although this thread is designated to target internet usage and giving "a voice" to the common people, the many topics for debate quickly come to the forefront. What is "fair?" Where is the fine line of censorship and/or suppression of free speech? Is there a governing voice of elitism in this attempt? Are the general public "too stupid to weigh in on the facts" and, rightfully, need to be overruled? More and more, I'm so thankful for the internet.....specifically, waydale and greasespot. From the collective body of GS-posters, I've gleaned a truckload of information and resolve. I enjoy the diversity of opinions and stories that've been posted thru the years. Quite frankly, I can't imagine where I'd be today in terms of a healthy dose of reality, compassion and patience...if I hadn't found Waydale back in May of 1999. The reality brew on these discussion forums was so refreshing. After two decades of twi groupthink and suppression of civil discourse, the "other side of wierwille road" had God's fresh air in abundance. But I must say, there seems to be a growing concern over national censorship that is pointedly directed at national radio broadcasters.....with internet concerns waiting in the wings. Now, that I'm spoiled...........I can't imagine a world with internet censorship.

mstar1......in context to this issue, I am the one who brought up this question. It seems to me, there is a growing polarization in this country with regards to free speech and the internet. Obviously, most here at GS are aware of twi's mandates about the internet....specifically, the ex-twi websites. Outspoken and unapologetic, twi view the internet as evil. Just google "The Way International"......and its obvious. Just google "L. Craig Martndale".........and its obvious. In this thread, I am asking the question....."In a broad sense, Religion and Politics seem to be converging on a consensus that its becoming "unmanageable" or needs strict regulation and "fairness." Could this really happen?" In twi, there was censorship......could this movement for censorship be afoot on a national level?

The Internet: The Voice of the People This information super-highway, the internet,.....with discussion forums, private messaging, e-mails, chatrooms, blogs, youtube, comments, polls, twitter, facebook, etc.....gives one "the microphone" to speak objectively, dissent, vent, etc. For years, twi scolded their followers to STAY OFF the internet....specifically, the ex-twi websites. In fact, twi leadership propounded that one could get possessed by devil spirits if this occurred. The "witch hunt" to find violaters is well noted by many GS-posters who were hunted down in early 2000. The mantra was preached: "The internet is evil." A few splinter groups started websites with discussion forums......but, they too have been shut down. And now, there seems to be a growing concern that political hierarchy are weighing in on the internet and its vastness. Some want to see more regulation on free speech. Under the umbrella of "fairness"....the FCC is mounting a charge towards regulations and fines imposed if "fairness" is violated. And, some want to give top government officials (the president?) the power to shut down the internet in the face of an emergency. Critics say that this could easily be a "veiled emergency" leading to censorship. In a broad sense, Religion and Politics seem to be converging on a consensus that its becoming "unmanageable" or needs strict regulation and "fairness." Could this really happen?

RELIGION As internet chatrooms, facebook twitter, youtube, etc go mainstream America......THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE, and specifically the 'common people' are a growing voice in today's media. No longer can religious groups squelch and/or villify those who saw the inner-workings of a cult. Ten years ago, in April 1999.....P@ul All3n launched Waydale in response to TWI's then-trustees, Martindale and Rivenbark and Reynolds, for their cover-up of martindale's sexual predation who specifically targeted F3rn All3n when she worked on staff at The Way International. A lawsuit ensued. Waydale changed everything!!!! This new site, Waydale, pulled back the curtain of twi's cast of characters, their masks and agendas, etc. etc. and even showed us how 'the architect built the theatre.' Greasespot Cafe took the reins when Waydale closed. Thankfully, this site continues to give a voice to the people. Thank you, Paw. Thank you moderators. The Voice of the People......ex-twi people came to post their stories and their grievances. The Result?......P@aul All3n won this lawsuit in an out-of-court settlement, splinter groups were put on notice, and thousands of ex-followers/followers were given a RARE GLIMPSE OF TWI'S UNDERBELLY....and the pieces of the puzzle started fitting together. The Internet changed the level of the 'playing field'......and because of that, today's twi is only a shell of its former glory and oppressive power. Not only that, but this 'new information' has empowered us to MOVE FORWARD BOLDLY. POLITICS As well, the internet's websites, articles, chatrooms, twitter, facebook etc. etc.......are changing the dynamics of 'inside the beltway politics,' secret agendas, radical movements, censorship, etc. WorldNetDaily posted an article back on April 12, 2009 about Van Jones......the radical extremist, the 911 truther, the self-avowed communist, who became one of President Obama's whitehouse appointed czars 'The Green Jobs Czar.' Foxnews picked up this information and ran a whole series last week EXPOSING THE RADICAL MOVEMENT AND SHADOW GOVERNMENT THAT IS AFOOT. The internet chatrooms were abuzzing all week. Today, we learn........this green jobs czar, Van Jones, who had oversight of a $30 Billion government-run budget has been pressured to RESIGN. More to come.

Penworks.....lots of good points, thanks. Although many of these spin-offs are "convinced that they were taught the accuracy of the bible by vpw".....I often think that MANY had invested 14-18 years [before the 1988 exodus] into this "bible instruction" and were, now, in their mid-30s with family in tow. THEREFORE, the path to paying the bills and the path of least resistance was to KEEP ON KEEPIN' ON THE SAME CLASS/TAPE ORIENTED STRUCTURE. By tweaking things just a little here, a little there.......and a new "class" is made. Sound familiar? Of course, it does.......Leonard's 1953 class, The Gifts of the Spirit, was tweaked into "pfal" by wierwille. And, with today's technology.....these spin-offs might possibly be spin-offs of former spin-offs. Sure people change thru the years, I know. But I can't help but remember "Dr. Mich@el Gud0rf" spending alot of time napping on his interim year at hq and rarily seeing him volunteer for anything. hahahahahahahaha

Yeah, more precisely..... It really is pathetic how TWI put their "abundance god" in a box and sold this doctrine.

On one hand, twi teaches........."ever learning" college style (world knowledge) is equated with one having a devil spirit (fallacious spirit). On the other hand, twi teaches..."ever learning" cult rhetoric (twi's cycle of manipulation) is synonymous with staying faithful to "the word one was taught." And, the cult sings.........."the wheels on the bus go round and round..."

Maybe, martindale thought the application read......Home Despot. <_<

The scriptures pull no punches in exposing those who SPIN and are IN...the vicious cyle of "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." Perhaps, twi and its splinter groups would do well to spend time studying this section of scripture and then, taking a hard, long look in the mirror. For those who stand guilty of spinning this cycle......ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth......are men (women) who are lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, false accusers, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, having a form of godliness [and that's not even the WHOLE LIST]. Have we seen men and women like this? Is it any wonder that the proud and highminded want a following? Is it surprising that such false leaders seek their own "teaching ministries" or splinter groups or web sites that spew their rhetoric? So when this verse shows up: II Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. .....it is not surprising that these false teachers/accusers STAND IN OPPOSITION TO GOD AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD. And yet.......some left twi only to jump into another spin cycle.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see splinter guys get teary-eyed in front of their "congregants"...... emotional-tugs are one of the fastest ways to one's pocketbook. I mean, really......aren't ALL OF THOSE SPLINTER GROUPS TRYING TO "DUPLICATE THE WIERWILLE-MOG PUBLIC PERSONA AND TEACHING STYLE?" Of course they are.......and that's why those splinter groups are filled with EX-twi people and make every effort to keep their children/grand-children involved. Parroting the wierwille-framework is the splinters' retirement insurance.

leafy.....even former Trunk/Region coordinators, the L@llys, split from TWI in the middle of the night. Apparently, they too didn't want to face the confrontation of twi leadership which spoke volumes.....since the L@llys seemed quite capable of standing their ground. Some found the easiest way to "step aside" was........get a home mortgage. :)

Yeah.......and "that" kind of corps were too often promoted for their bullying and megaphone mouthings. Like any group, the fringes seem to get most of the attention.....albeit, wierwillistic antics. All one has to do is look at wierwille's "promoted"......martindale, geer, lynn, finnxgan, etc to see the arrogance in runaway mode.

Had wierwille been more honest.....St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church in Van Wert, Ohio might have been his lifelong pulpit. Had wierwille been more honest.....he wouldn't have stolen Rev. B.G. Leonard's class, The Gifts of the Spirit in 1953 and pawned it off as his own. Had wierwille been more honest.....etc. etc. etc. BUT......if VPW had received revelation about the internet, then why couldn't he have received REVELATION to write his own works, demonstrate God's power, and serve the Lord with uprightness?

WW.....you beat me to it. I was just about to say the same thing. Wierwille was idolized......warts and all.

No, waysider......they had to be INDOCTRINATED BACK INTO WIERWILLE'S WAY. There's something about being away from daily indoctrination and oppression that allows one's own conscience, concerns and choices to move to the forefront.

Thanks, penworks.....you would certainly know. By 1972, the 55-year old wierwille had every intention of keeping "his corps kids" on A SHORT LEASH. Wierwille knew how to manipulate and how to stroke the egos of his leaders followers. He kept a watchful eye on his corps and pulled them back to hdqtrs after a few short years. Years ago.....I started a thread entitled Twi's Corporate Secret or something like that. The premise of the thread was to expose that field corps will rarely be counted faithful to twi for a lifetime. In every sense of the word "faithful".....one must go faithfully to twigs/branch/limb meetings, witness regularly, teach often, abs 15% and speak twi's doctrine a lifetime. And, even longtime staffers are sent packing if health problems arise or draw unnecessary attention (blame) to twi. In looking at my 1985 Twi-Clergy List..........my oh my, of the 385 clergy listed, the ranks have dwindled drastically (90-92% ??) :blink: