skyrider

Linda......I think Kevlar is referring to 1982. Weren't you on hq staff at the time? Perhaps, that is why you didn't get that letter or albums? Just saying.....

Kevlar.....did you mean to type 1982 instead of 1972? The WOW Auditorium push came much later.....as it opened in 1985.

Yeah.....a chasm apart from those in the church epistles who hazarded their lives for the gospels' sake. Sounds more like a dalai lama type of thing. Except.......cgeer brought his handgun to the 1986 November clergy meeting.

During my inrez years, many "teachers" were our peers.....NOT corps grads. On several topics, cgeer was given the microphone to train indoctrinate corps. Remember, he and his wife studied every aspect of mr. and mrs. wierwille......eating habits, coffee tastes, drambuie-laced drinks, dog training, teaching forums, when he takes off his coat while teaching, need for evasive driving, security issues, reading material, motorcoach protocols, etc etc. AND.....SOME OF THIS STUFF HE AND BARB TAUGHT TO THE CORPS. Please tell me......the corps program was NOT indoctrination. <_<

So many things.....but when I reflected back on some of these things, this is what struck me: Transition and Transference

What if all OUR LEARNING OF TWI'S FAILURES was played out on a NATIONAL LEVEL????? Hypothetically......"twi bureacracy" = federal government Hypothetically......not enough abs = federal tax revenue Hypothetically......mandate vpw doctrines = stiflying private sector and more taxes Soaring Debt

And....how many would actually claim "I owe my soul to the company store." Sing it Tennessee Ernie Ford !!

Yeah....the twi bureacracy had us eating mcdonald's burgers all week long, year after year. And.....cgeer franchised the outfit to spice it with posthumous bread.

Rocky.....I couldn't agree more and said the very same thing to penworks this morning in a pm. :)

Gee.....sounds like a youth advance or branch meeting??? NOT from some "international" group...... :B)

Oakspear......I totally agree. Those first few WIB conferences had a main over-all teaching theme.....and then, TEN or TWELVE workshops ("word-shops") where REAL businessmen and REAL professionals shared aspects of REAL LIFE situations. For many, these workshops were NOT corps-led or wayspeak mumbo-jumbo.......these break-out conferences were filled with aspects to encourage and inspire small business owners, etc. etc. The whole concept of those early WIB conferences (1979-1982??).....was freedom in the making. BUT NO.......twi pulled the plug on it and it soon morphed into corps-led indoctrination. Only the corps (cough, cough) could lead these business and professional men and women. My respect for Don Wierwille......hit bottom. The guy just fell into the same bucket as his dad. By early 1990s......WIB conferences had morphed into Advanced CLass Specials.

erkjohn......well said. Wierwille, and later martindale, subscribed to "we have ALL the answers and we know the best way to run your life and family." i.e. -- bigger twi bureacracy is better.....reaching and teaching all aspect of "the word's way." In 1995.....after martindale's twi went thru those post-"fog years"......martindale got "revelation" to put ALL WAY CORPS ON TWI'S PAYROLL. The result? Disastrous!!! Within two months, the trunk office had to triple its personnel as it scrambled to keep up with martindale's weekly mandates, policies and financial controls. Then, as lcm launched his "present truth" edict.....week after week, the changes in policy and terminology were crazy. Yes, martindale was pulling the same bait-n-switch that wierwille did. Once corps signed onto this full-time assignment for twi, they OWNED us in every imaginable way. Remember: Twi has always lived by the slogan that those on staff live on a "needs basis"....and twi defines "need." In attempts to meet this ballooning payroll, martindale set mandates to the corps: No serious pets, No pregnancies w/o trustee approval, No interstate traveling to family w/o approval, No attending WIB unless trustee-invite, No teeth-braces for your kids w/o approval, No karate or dance or voice lessons for kids, No cable (unless you have other income to pay for it)...... While I totally agree that some corps (ok, many corps) took advantage of "the system"......the whole bureacratic process was faulty from the get-go. Like everything, those with greedy, elitist motives will always attempt to scam the system as bureacracy blurs into anonymity.....and to scale back on this corruption, these types of corps were martindale's examples on corps phone hook-up meetings to bring costs under control and MANDATE LIFE CHOICES. I've posted all this information.....some four or five years ago. Again.......twi's bureacracy collaped upon itself. There simply wasn't enough abs or classes or anything....to sustain martindale's "revelation" for all corps to be on twi's payroll. Don and Howard were bullied into this faulty premise as well and, just like when wierwille got his way, martindale did TOO.

The Internet: The Voice of the People Is our government starting to put restrictions on this?? Is this the proverbial camel's nose under the tent? Here's another link.... My link Politics and Religion..........leave my right to free speech alone.

Article: The Wall Street Journal / Sep 21 U.S. as Traffic Cop in Web Fight My link What?? Is this the start?

YET....I could easily make the arguement that wierwille was a narcissistic tyrant, plagairist, a sex predator, and devised the corps program for self-gain and exploitation. The corps program was a bait-n-switch......and wierwille knew it. By 1980, lots of good corps.....and plenty of wonderful faithful followers....were onto wierwille's trickery ONLY TO BE HAMMERED BY TWI'S BUREACRATIC FIST ONCE AGAIN.

Oakspear......"more chiefs than Indians" INDEED. In retrospect, I see how wierwille devised a corps program to be a manufacturing, indoctrinational process to build an army of wierwille-soldiers. The corps followed the commands of wierwille....overreaching and overriding the twigs, branches, areas, and limbs....to the point where this indoctrination was injected into every twig. Add the weekly tapes and monthly mag to this toxic recipe as well. In 1980......there was a juncture point where "word in culture" was......(imo)......starting to break away from the wierwille idolatry. Artists, writers, cartoonists, musicians, financial freedom speakers, etc. were rising up.....BRANCHING OUT AND AWAY FROM THE WIERWILLE INDOCTRINATION. I know there are many who could easily argue that the whole thing was a con and messed up from the get-go.....but there was a short time when, imo, it looked like many were embracing individual freedoms in Christ. But soon thereafter.....that "word in culture tent" at roa was closed down and people could NO LONGER sell their wares and promote their individuality. Individual expression and freedom was MOUNTING and became unmanageable by twi's bureacracy of control. At one time, there was talk of REGIONAL rock of ages. And, Word in Business conferences, under the direction of Don Wierwille, was geared toward business/professionals and College Division students.

Back in 1979-1984, the way ministry was growing exponentially. In 1979.....twi moved its offices and "command center" from the EOB to the OSC. Many believe, and I largely agree, that twi changed dramatically that year. At this juncture, twi lost its "intimate flavor" of meals in the BRC basement, Sunday morning sharings on the wierwille lawn under the apple trees, the BRC Sunday night services, the hamburgers served on the front courtyard of the wierwille home, etc. etc. In 1980.....more and more corporate policies were infiltrating into twi's framework. Outside vendors were coming to the OSC to get a piece of this growing enterprise.....Sysco food distributors, IBM salesmen, Materials Handling guys were stopping at shipping, receiving and warehousing offices, etc. etc. In 1981.....Ambassador One flights were commissioned to get hq staff to the field and bring "field people" to hq for an extended weekend. Twi was attempting to bring that "come and see" feel to those who started to see a distancing and bureacracy forming. Other major pushes were underway to get Way Prod. out to the people. In 1982.....with president-elect martindale on board for the October Anniversary mantle-exchange, the massive Living Victoriously event was a super-charged event wherein International Summer School attendees were invited to stay throughout the 10 weeks (?)...culminating with the 1982 Living Victoriously. Major prep all year.....more levels of bureacracy. If I remember correctly, F1nnegan was given a title above Bo Rxxhard's International Outreach Coord. position. F1nnegan was entitled with WORLDWIDE Outreach Coordinator. Also, noted.....cgeer was sent to Europe and designated the European Trunk Coordinator and European Corps Coordinator. In 1983.....in the states, limbs were getting bigger and bigger. Several limbs were huge and needed staffed and volunteer staff. The Area coord. position was needful to oversee several Branches in a state. The levels of leadership one needed to address....like three levels just to address the limb...twig guy, branch guy, area guy... was abit too much. In 1984.....many believe that this was the apex of twi's growth and notoriety. At roa, there were some 24,000 attendees and the compexities of it all were staggering.....the long lines, the pregnant mothers, the children's area, the youth groups in the west woods, the emcees juggling all sorts of rallying meetings, "third" aid, safety issues, camping issues, and corps working endlessly behind the scenes, etc. etc. Does there come a point where this should have been de-centralized? Does there come a point when the pyramid structure of twi....and its ever-growing wierwille adulation....need to be re-focused back towards christian principles and not this annual pilgrimage? Did twi's bureacracy collapse upon itself?

And......as the class series developed, wasn't wierwille's "advanced class revelation" [i.e. myth of the six million, the 13th tribe, the illuminati, marxist minstrels, etc].....wasn't wierwille a subscriber of the Liberty Lobby? some conspiracy theory agenda? And......didn't wierwille state that he thought the U.S. fought on the wrong side during WW II..?? Was wierwille's german roots showing bias? Anti-semitic?

ham.....I am no tax expert, but think that nearly all of these expenses would fall under categories that clearly would be legitimate expenditures for "ministry" work. To me......the bigger issue is discretionary spending with no accountability to board members. I mean, with the loose structure of a splinter setup......traveling to California one month, then South Carolina's myrtle beach area another month, a hotel suite here, a hotel suite there.......there is NO WAY the IRS would find these objectionable, is there? The blurring of business/pleasure/ministry could be easily disguised without red flags, couldn't it? Heck, wierwille went hunting, motorcycle riding, parked his motorcoach at IN 500 races, .....I suppose one could have spent a week at the Grand Ole Opry Hotel and written it in the books as "conference planning" for their 1984 Sound Out event, no? Clearly, there are many reasons why so many guys jumped on board the Splinter Express when the wierwille train pulled into Dis-Union Station......but then again, maybe I'm just more skeptical these days.

In reality.....twi would NOT clean their own swamp. Twi-lawyers had to ADVICE THEM WITH STRONG LANGUAGE to get rid of martindale......within months, he was ousted. Now ain't twi "spiritual"??????????????? :blink:

Ham.....in 1998, martindale was president, rosalie was vice pres. and reynolds was sec/treas When lawyers deposed rosalie in 2000.....she admitted that she knew of martindale's sex predation as early as 1995.... and those court documents are on file. BUT......even that is absurd!!!!! Imo, she lied again. She is so adept at lying that it doesn't faze her in the least. There is no doubt in my mind that she knew of martindale's sex predation that started at least by 1982 or thereabouts....maybe earlier. Even my wife had a not so pleasant encounter of his advances in 1983!!!!! I mean, c'mon.....the 1984/85 athlete of the spirit production dancers and the sexual/sensual imagery in it....etc. etc. Like others, I know more details.......but will not divulge confidences. Some women have moved on with marriages, kids and all....and have no desire to be mentioned in the same context with martindale's conquests. Twi is evil......period.

And....back in 1998, the phones were ringing off the walls and twi went into major DAMAGE CONTROL. When I revisit this timeframe, it really pi$$es me off to see all those major players lying and covering for martindale.....ROSALIE RIVENBARK, JOHN RENOLDS, J. L1NDER, HOWARD ALLEN, DON WIERWILLE etc. in such bald-faced fashion. And, after you peel off the obvious layer or those "in the know"......what about other security guys? receptionists and others with walkie/talkie radios? president's cabinet? wanda? emogene? others? How deep does this cover-up go? I sometimes think that L1nder, or someone close by, is planning to write a book on all this? Imagine.....the leverage gained in holding ALL THIS DIRT over the heads of twi's directors? What would it be worth? Millions??

Well said.... Yet, I think that for many of them......their resume sucks in the real world AND THEY KNOW IT. There is NO WAY that those cabinet guys/dept coordintors could find anything comparable to the cushy desk position that their bu++ sits in. Forget the meager salary that they get....they scoff at "the world" anyway. Besides, they have rationalized this thing a thousand ways since Sunday and say "they serve at the spiritual epicenter of the world for God Almighty." Furthermore, they've hazarded their lives climbing to these top rungs on twi's ladder.....and they ain't about to give it up. At least, not those who've been kissing the twi-signet ring for decades. The minions around them only prove how hard it is to scale the summit of slime.

It seems to me......CFF markets itself as TWI-Lite. 1) Same twig style.....same little teachings....same manifestations 2) Same pyramid structure.....same foundational class format.....other classes 3) Same call for tithing faithfully, etc. 4) Same wierwille adulation.....two wierwille kids give support 5) Same attempts to grasp "good ole days"......mock rocks???? But hey......I could be wrong?

Groucho......yeah, I agree with you that "lazy lowlifes" has alot to do with it. And further, wierwille groomed these men to take it further than he would.......and, they too, saw the motorcoaches, motorcycles, fawning women everywhere, rock-star status, and dare I say that some had ALREADY PARTAKEN of the "fruit from the pear (pair) tree." Of course, add those elements of arrogance and elitism and DISTANCE (where many, who live in other faraway states tithe to the splinter group) that permeated twi to its core, the culture is ripe for picking bushels of fruit and hiding it in one's own barn. I mean, c'mon......even during the Geer power-grab era, the Indiana limb guy had part-time staff people and volunteers help restore his boat!!!! Sure, he broke away from twi....only to put his shingle on cgeer's street. Someone told me years ago that he quit paying the cgeer franchise fees and is now has his own splinter sub-group. Besides......after 15 years or so in twi (and a resume that sucked), I wonder how many of them had envisioned STRIKING OUT ON THEIR OWN FOR YEARS??????