skyrider

"A narcissist craves attention, validation, appreciation, and/or ego-boosting. It’s an addiction and they might need a lot of sources to fulfill their needs. A narcissist could thus be short of narcissistic supply and decide to try to lure you back in. They might sense you’re still vulnerable to them and try to manipulate you into re-engaging." ~~~~~~~~ Speaking of narcissists....... I find it interesting that some long-past Region/State coordinators and Corps coordinators ( Sann, Sailer and Strezpek) have been giving teachings to the R & R group. The whole sham is more about these guys getting validation and attention for standing in front of people and "teaching." If you want to get a glimpse of what you are missing (LOL LOL)......even in splinter groups........R & R Group. The whole thing is so bland. If this is "revival"............NO THANKS.

Twinky.......I seriously doubt that they will send out invitation letters. Have you ever noticed that twi DOES NOT like to put things in writing? Written information puts them at a disadvantage. Documenting things in writing is taboo. Even their *mark-and-avoid* policy is NOT in written form. Plus, they wouldn't want something to be posted on GSC....would they?

For the record............some of us have been exposing all the wrongdoings of twi since 1999, since Waydale. Sheeesh. Bob Moneyhands isn't some "revival expert"........he probably plagiarized his stuff from GreaseSpot Cafe. We've been talking about this stuff for 18 years......BEFORE that March 2017 letter was drafted. And, we know that Rosalie got copies of GSC threads dropped on her desk weekly. So, they did nothing......UNTIL TWI IS SPIRALING THE DRAIN. Twi is run by evil Pharisees. Stay away !!!!!

According to someone I trust for reliable information......twi is starting to reach out and solicit/summon ex-corps grads to come back. Apparently, there is a growing demand for Limb coordinators. Huge swaths of states do NOT have adequate or no leadership. Seems that few are willing to take on the task and challenge of running a state. What could possibly be the reasons? A non-salary position......and confrontation from the bod-leadership every week? The grueling paperwork and reporting back to distant overlords? Enduring a no-upside situation.....and neglecting wife/kids in the process? Being micro-managed by hypocritic Pharisees? At the smallest mistake, having your name sullied thru the mud at corps meetings? If you think about quitting.....you will be on the blunt end of character assassination? Also, it was said that the board of directors is implementing some of Bob Moneyhands' suggestions from that letter. Yes, Bob (and others) did suggest that the no-debt policy should be tossed. Yes, Bob (and others) did suggest that corps who were wronged should be invited back. Are they going to start up a "research team" again? I'm positive that twi knows who I am......and has photocopied hundreds of my GSC threads. I will not be getting a phone call......thankfully. It wouldn't matter if they apologized for Martindale's and Lally's 1998 Character Assassination on my life and reputation. They publically lied about us to keep us from exposing the sullied underbelly of Martindale's sexual predation and twi's whitewashing this information. Rosalie knew. They all knew. No matter.........I ain't going back. Never. Ever.

Note: I am overloaded with plenty of work this week...... so please don't take issue with my slow responses to this thread. Lots on my plate to get done.

Thanks Rocky........ To clarify: In the "John Lynn Legacy" thread......we were notified of his death. That first day or so, some took issue with his stance on mask wearing and vaccines.....inferring that he got covid-19 and died. None of us really know that for sure, do we? He had cancer and possibly other comorbidity health issues; he was 76 or 77 years old, right? Sure, Lynn was stubborn and could have worn a mask (etc.) to help prolong his life and safeguard others......but I don't feel the need to lay that on his tombstone. My oldest son is a cancer doctor and I do have some in-depth knowledge of that subject. Having been manipulated, demonized and bullied by twi.......I detest those who do it. The "concept" of compartmentalizing John's "legacy thread" down to a fragment of his "misinformation teachings" when he's given over 50 years of life to Christian service seems petty. But then, it seems like human nature only seems to remember the last few things one did. And yet, publically critiquing (ridiculing and condemning) someone immediately upon death is WHAT TWI-LEADERSHIP DID CONSISTENTLY. Here at GSC, we should be able to discern how petty and irresponsible that is. Regarding mask wearing, vaccinations, therapeutics, zinc, vitamin D, ivermectin, etc. etc. etc.......I am for any and all of the above. Whatever helps us to move forward in healing and wholeness. We are still in the EARLY STAGES OF LEARNING all that we need to know about covid-19 and its upcoming variants. Medical doctors disagree at several junctures. Nurses and first-responders are refusing to take the vaccinations and are being terminated by hospitals. Some healthcare people who have been serving covid patients for 18 months do NOT want to take the vaccines. Why? Why is no one asking them? Why is there such a blackout of media on learning why the opposition? Here at GreaseSpot, WE PRIDE OURSELVES ON TELLING THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY......what is the "other side" of the story with these healthcare workers? I waited one week after Lynn's death to start a discussion. Isn't that what GSC is all about? We listen to each other's point of view. Just like you, Rocky, are doing right now. Yet, at times.....there seems to be bullying. Rarely, do I disagree with the moderators.....but I do here in this instance. Maybe, it's time for me to step away from GSC. This place, at times, is becoming the very thing that I despise .......bullying tactics. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. In Mark 8:15....after the feeding the four thousand people loaves and fish, Jesus commands his disciples..."And he charged them saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod." Clearly, we see two distinct groups of authoritarians: 1) Religious Hierarchy and 2) Political Hierarchy. What is the message? Beware and vigilant of those who wield power over you. We have the right and responsibility to question those in authority.......health agencies, religious leaders, politicians (both sides!!), etc. I value open discussion. GSC is unique. All other splinter groups have closed ranks and shut off questioning wierwille's narcissism and authoritarian rule over twi. A questioning mind is a healthy mind. Thanks for your concern, Rocky. I appreciate you reaching out.

We keep talking PAST EACH OTHER. I keep addressing how unseemly and disturbing it is to funnel the legacy of someone's life into fragments.....John Lynn served in Christian ministry for over 50 years and we are supposed to highlight that??? You keep talking about how he spread misinformation. If you want to address point-by-point this misinformation...... why don't you start another thread and put the bullet points out there?

Have it both ways? Several posters agreed that the "John Lynn's Legacy" thread in the Open Forum was not cool (not proper). Are we to funnel the "legacy" of his life of some 50 years of Christian service into the context of lambasting him for his stance on mask wearing, vaccinations, etc.?? The concept of disparaging someone upon death is unseemly. As we all know......even doctors disagree right now on the vaccine mandates, mask wearing, etc. It's everywhere.....all over the internet. Can't we have a discussion ON ANOTHER THREAD about that? Why are nurses refusing the vaccines? Is this a topic of discussion? Medical Institutions have politicized this debate. And, as we all know........here at GSC, politics is not allowed. Right? Even Bill Maher says these health issues have become political.......Real Time with Bill Maher

My original post was posted ONE WEEK AFTER a controversial ex-twi leader died. When the announcement of Lynn's death was posted in the Open Forum, John Lynn's Legacy .... there was a sharp division amongst posters. Some wanted to immediately detail John's stance on vaccines, mask wearing, etc. and relate that to his death (leaving the underlying cancer issues and any other personal health issues aside). Others suggested that it was not the proper time to address these issues and to keep it a memorial thread. So, a week passed by......and I started a thread to address the CONCEPT that *The Way International leadership used one's death as a tactic to publically (and selectively) castigate or disparage corps upon death.* Sure, the subject matter (the concept) had relevance to the death of John Lynn.......BUT in my original post, I made no mention of Lynn. I highlighted my stance in this paragraph stating......."There have been dozens of corps who were laid bare as examples of what not to do. Corps meetings were laced with them. Oftentimes, it would be the centerpiece of what wierwille or martindale wanted to indoctrinate us with that night. In hindsight, we were incrementally manipulated and herded into their agendas. This was not education...... this was manipulation, indoctrination and exploitation." So, I thought discussing the CONCEPT of this tactic was pertinent. Having sat thru hundreds of corps meetings noting how twi-leadership use this tactic.......to me, was grating and disturbing. I detest it strongly. And, when it appeared to be "raising its ugly head" here at the GSC Community.....I thought it pertinent to draw attention to it. Not the person, the concept. If others choose to discuss John Lynn's stance on mask mandates, vaccines, lockdowns, freedom vs tyranny, governmental overlords, etc........ then start another thread and address that. My thread was NOT for that purpose.

"If this has to be that platform then I will bow out as well." OldSkool Well, I guess that makes two of us. This thread has been derailed from its original purpose.

"I think that's the point skyrider was making when he stated the thread wasn't about JAL but TWI's rather sordid practice of character assasination of people who passed away. Why not move his stance on health care to another thread dedicated for that? Or does any post that could be remotely related to JAL become a public health pedestal? Obviously, there are people who realllllly want to discuss this facet of his beliefs based on the video......" OldSkool....... I agree.

"Since the Allen lawsuits they don't publicly slander any longer because their lawyers taught em that. All of the slander is kept in house at confidential meetings amongst the way corps leadership." OldSkool Reminds me of this thread years ago......... ....and you're not recording is that correct? Twi did NOT trust field corps to not record corps meetings......so every week, the a/v guys would ask the same three questions. If corps teachings were simply about teaching the Scriptures (educating minds).......they WHY the repetition of the same three questions each week? Was twi recording THE RESPONSE of each field corps person.....so if a **recording** was attempted to be introduced into a court case, then twi-lawyers would step in and show that twi's policies were to NOT RECORD CORPS MEETINGS. Perhaps, as well.....twi didn't want the masses hearing the verbal assaults and slander that was often common at corps meetings. Interesting how LOSING a couple of court cases ( and lots of settlement money )..... got twi to change its slander tactics. Although, I'm sure that in tighter circles, the slander is prevalent.......just like the "mark and avoid" policy that twi denies that exists.

My original post made NO reference to any one person. My intent was to start a discussion about the CONCEPT. As I've said, twi leadership would go into attack mode on the individual immediately upon death.......lest the ministry be blamed. More often than not.....it funneled the end of one's life down to a fraction of minor decisions. This topic could be worthy of discussion if we delve into the wide spectrum of life and lilving. If others choose to make this thread all about the recent passing of John Lynn, then I will bow out. Peace.

I think this subject is worthy of discussing here at GSC. Yes, this came to the fore in the "JAL Legacy" thread.....and a sharp division came forward between viewpoints. Interesting, for sure. I look forward to hearing from others on this discussion.

Publically critiquing someone's life and choices immediately upon death.......is distasteful, at best. No one person knows the full extent or impact of that person's life. If he/she was in Christian service for a decade (or two, or three), only God would know the full measure of his/her words and deeds and the far reaching effects. The Way International's leadership used this tactic often at corps meetings. For those who were never corps.....you were spared dozens of hours of drama and anguish when men like wierwille, martindale or geer would tear into a corps' soul. Even death was no escape from their wrath....if there was a benefit in stirring fear and control to a higher level. Haven't we heard the story about the corps at headquarters who were on the colon cleanse and two guys drove into New Knoxville to get some snacks..... and someone was killed in a car accident on the way back? Wierwille, even days later, called the corps guy a murderer (in Karl K's book). Another incident....a corps guy, on his way home from an evening fellowship out of town, stops to check on his deer stand. He had planned to go deer hunting on that Saturday. Anyways, shortly thereafter he gets into a fatal car accident. Martindale rails on a corps night meeting how this guy was "out of fellowship" and should never have taken that short side-detour to check on his deer stand. Imagine.....after 16-20 years of service to twi, THIS is how he's "eulogized" ??? What about ALL the great, selfless things he did to run his branch fellowship? Nope. Martindale's got to shovel dirt on his grave....before he's buried. There have been dozens of corps who were laid bare as examples of what not to do. Corps meetings were laced with them. Oftentimes, it would be the centerpiece of what wierwille or martindale wanted to indoctrinate us with that night. In hindsight, we were incrementally manipulated and herded into their agendas. This was not education...... this was manipulation, indoctrination and exploitation. What about someone who was driving to the rock of ages and was killed? Silence. What about someone who got into a serious LEAD ACCIDENT while riding in the back of a pickup? Silence. What about someone who had worked 60 hours that week and was driving home from an evening Twig fellowship and was killed? Who's to say that that person should NOT have been working tirelessly for twi and maybe should have stayed home that Friday night? To me, it was really disturbing and grating when twi leadership condemned someone's decisions and choices IMMEDIATELY UPON DEATH. Sure.....maybe there's benefit to reviewing decisions/choices in a forum to learn from mistakes..... but after some time has passed, not during the grieving period. Here at GSC, we've discussed wierwille's decisions to film pfal in 1967 staring into intensive lights for hours. Was it a boneheaded decision? Yes. Did we discuss it publically? Yes. But we discussed it decades after his death. Lots of learning from it. Part of this goes into the Ecclesiastes file.....there is a time and place to critique matters. And, there is a time for comforting and eulogizing the wellspring of one's life. .

John Lynn was certainly dedicated and laser-focused on things that mattered to him. Whether it was biblical research, books that he authored or basketball at Emporia......John wanted everyone within earshot to enter into his world of interests. He was our Emporia Campus Corps Coordinator my last year in-residence and would turn our noon lunchtime into an hour of teaching. Other times, he had stories to make us laugh. I agree with those who suggest keeping this as a memorial thread. Critiquing someone's life's choices publicly upon death is what twi-leadership would do.... especially when way corps died. It was grating and disturbing, not comforting and supporting. This is a time to comfort and eulogize a man who was deeply dedicated and passionate about life. May the God of all Comfort bless the Lynn family and loved ones in their sorrow.

jrglade.....thanks for your kind words. The answer to your question is "no"......the information that I gained from this deprogramming experience did not have any bearing on my decision to exit twi. In reality, it was the accumulative effect of all those red flags during my corps training, years on staff at headquarters AND the insanity of following martindale's directives when all the corps grads were mandated to be full-time employees/slaves. Yes, I'd been questioning things as early as 1978 during my corps training. One of the biggies for me was how wierwille treated elder corps grads who were leaving twi. He publicly castigated and berated them for leaving him/twi....calling them cop-outs. It was very disturbing to me.....something that I later came to more fully understand as untoward secrecy [link]. At several junctures throughout my twi tenure, I was ready to "jump ship." But like so many things in life, each year brought a mixed bag of blessings and challenges. My wife was deeply invested into twi and did not seem to question the myriad of inconsistencies (hypocrisies) that floated under the radar at hq. We were busy beavers doing all we could to serve in our work assignments and beyond. Neither one of us had any inkling that there was sexual predation at the highest levels of twi. Had we stayed on hq-staff for a few more years, it might have hastened our departure from twi. But when we were assigned to three years in Canada, the fresh air of life filled our souls once again. Without the suffocating mandates of "central command"........our strength to give and serve was renewed. Holding out hope against hope.....I, for the longest time, thought that twi would "Move Beyond Wierwille." Where were the gift ministries (apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers) that would keep us in alignment with God? Surely, we'd hold fast to our liberty in Christ Jesus and not succumb to legalism and man-made doctrines, wouldn't we? Nope. Wierwille, martindale, geer, rivenbark........power was wielded from the top-down. And, twi became worse than a religion. Twi became a cult. And......still is.

Wierwille's prophecy did NOT come to pass. He spoke presumptuously [saying or doing something without right or permission, taking excessive liberties, presuming something that isn't there]. Thus, do not be afraid [do not respect] him. Stay away from cults. Should have had many more good years honoring and respecting my parents. They were right about The Way International from the git-go. Thankful, I had 10 years with my Dad after exiting twi in 1998. Today is his birthday. Miss you Dad.

If I recall correctly......House of His Healing Presence was just west of that small cabin in the Way Woods. Material for HHHP was from Hoge Lumber Company in New Knoxville, Ohio......the strips of bark that are unusable in construction work. Thus, it supposedly was to symbolize "humbleness" to use strip bark for the siding of this House of His Healing Presence. Open to the skies......to see the glory of the Lord.

"The denominations that twi so freely mocks have MUCH more comprehensive programs for training their ministers. The vetting process for even STARTING is a lot more scrutinized-and selective- than twi's "you can stay as long as your money holds!"- vpw to lcm about whether he could remain in the corps." Wierwille was a man of deception. He grew up lazy, aloof and needed his older sisters to tutor him with his homework. While his older siblings carried on the farm work or went into business adventures, young victor didn't have the ability, fortitude or mindset to that end. Seemingly, victor sought to follow in the steps of other church leaders to gain recognition, status in society and an easier path in life. After some 14 years in denominational church work, wierwille grew discontented in his limited surroundings. He despised the church board having power over his decisions and weekly teachings. For years, he had been attending other bible conventions and seminars in search of answers, a pathway forward. He was an unfulfilled pastor, a searching opportunist and an adulterer. He was adrift in a sea of envy, discontent and temptation. Others had what wierwille wanted: freedom to move and teach at will. More and more, wierwille plagiarized from others. Whole teachings. Stolen classes. No longer was wierwille tethered to any sense of morality or integrity of heart. He was blatantly stealing from other teachers, other ministers. He had crossed the line in the early 1950s and stayed on this path for the rest of his life. Wierwille was deceptive to the very end. His corps program, in my opinion.......was built with the pillars of 1) power and 2) control in mind. With each passing year, the corps versus non-corps became a growing chasm in wierwille's ministry, The Way International. Wierwille had stumbled into a formula to DIVIDE the youth.....and CONQUER their allegiance. He became a dictator with power to wield over thousands upon thousands! He had segregated his ministry into two groups: corps and non-corps. The CORPS were to be the mini-leaders over the non-corps. If you didn't get the corps training....indoctrination then you weren't "corps." Go read the corps letters and see the segregation and power-grab. Wierwille was a man with many pathologies. He had no intention of adhering to the standards of "other denominations".......he had found a pathway that worked to build his kingdom, his power structure. Period. Any corps grads who STILL holds to this elusive and elitist scam of being "special" because they are corps grads..........must live in a little, secluded, self-absorbed world.

Thanks penworks. I thought Lonnell (or Brenda) were in the 5th corps, because my wife and I spent time with them. As you know, my wife was 5th corps. But that relationship was strengthened by working on staff together..... not 5th corps related. My mistake. Thanks for the clarification. Both Lonnell and Brenda have been very successful post-twi. Writing books. Teachings. Christian conferences and outings. They have soared to great heights after leaving twi..... some 40 years ago.

Way Corps "ministers" are put on a short leash to follow twi's inept bod-leadership. Under this arrangement, corps cannot expect to be enriched by God.... or that "God will meet their every need." That corps promo is nothing short of gobbledygook. Restrictions on every hand bring forth the putrid fruit of man. In fact, many corps grads are assigned to work at headquarters and are given a meager bi-monthly paycheck for their work. The Way International is thus..."meeting their need" or lack thereof. True ministers of the Lord are NOT stuck in the chain-of-command structure. They are independent from bureaucratic constraints. Free to "live and move and have their being" in the Lord, walking with Him. In that context.....yes, God can and will supply. But twi puts people in a box of their own making.....and its a very small box constricting movement, growth and supply. All of twi's classes and programs lead one towards dependence on twi..... NOT dependence on the Lord where he shall be "like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season." [Psalm 1]

Yes......Lonnell Johnson, 5th corps, ordained clergy. He exited twi in late 70s, early 80s.......and got his PhD. Smart. Successful. Strong Christian.

Given twi's track record of exploitation and self-interests above all else, there are several reasons why Angela (a woman of color) is being added to the board of directors. Donna Martindale sees the need to protect her backside and adding Angela does that. Placing another woman in the mix, Donna (and Rosalie) are strengthening their control in a board room of men. Angela will be pampered and given special perks to cement her loyalty to Donna. This will give Donna the advantage of *more eyes on the ground* while Donna, Rosalie and Marcia get their "girl-time" shopping and dining out. If Donna takes too many liberties (travel perks), Vern, John and Bill might feel the need to oust Donna from her pedestal. Angela will be "reporting back" to Donna constantly. Count on it. Bonus: Angela, a woman of color, is a powerful weapon against white male toxic masculinity in today's world. This power move will solidify Donna's position for decades.....checkmate. Heck, at this rate.....Angela might be twi's NEXT ceo? In amplifying her credentials (a PhD in clinical psychology)......twi has stated, again, that they are secular in nature. Yeah, yeah....she moves God's Word, but she's got a PhD for God's sake!! All power resides on the women's side of the ledger. Vern, John and Bill are simply placeholders......much like Ermal and Harry were. Who ever remembers three significant things that Ermal ever said or did?