skyrider

And that, boys and girls......is how screwed up wierwille's abuse approach was to everything twi. From hiring Rhoda on a "needs-basis"....he knew, with Rhoda's mennonite background, that this type of system yields control over the individual. Once again......twi only makes changes when they MUST skirt the legal ramifications that could deal a major blow to their "non-profit organization." Just like the legal advise to oust martindale.......TWI ONLY DID IT WHEN THEIR HAND WAS FORCED.

Ummm........wasn't that the same grooming approach wierwille took when he selected L. Craig Martindale as 2nd president of The Way International ?

Thanks Steve....lots of interesting points there. Interesting how you note that these guys were trying to absorb (recruit) each others' membership to follow them......hmmmm, where have I seen this before? Oh yeah, wierwille, geer, and every offshoot leader out there. Everything that I've ever heard or read about Momentus leads me to believe that it was the most blatant, twisted, indoctrination tool. Maliciously displaying others' sins and skeletons for 'group therapy' and pointed confrontation.....is FAR WORSE than the corps indoctrination that I received in twi. Masked in christian veneer, where in the scriptures are private sins laid bare for public perusal? Momentus, personal prophesy, etc......offshoots gone wild.

Or perhaps, wierwille was simply reflecting on his past. From 1953-1957, wierwille stayed snuggled on the Van Wert church payroll until he built enough financial supporters for The Way, Inc.

I suppose you're right.... Though I do have a soft spot for some of those kind, caring staffers in the early 70s.....you know, the kitchen staff who would just tell us to open the frig in the BRC basement and make a sandwich late at night. Others too who really had a heart to serve.

Just when I think that I've heard every LOW, SCUM BUCKET TRICK IN TWI'S SCAM..... Bottom-feeders would be too generous in describing them.

And......that's why GOOD PEOPLE are labeled 'disgruntled and possessed' overnight by twi. There is NO middle ground anymore. The internet has exposed twi from A-Z (adultery ---> zealot elitism) and the gig is up. Only the financial squirreling away of millions helps to mask the thin veneer of 'christianity' in visiting twi's hq and sunday services. As the corps and staff CONTINUE TO LEAVE.....the con doesn't work anymore. Pathetic numbers in outreach and corps sign-ups are the proverbial 'canary in the coal mine.'

Dorothy Ow3ns and Rhoda Wierwxxx worked for twi into their 80s.....and that was VeePee's idea of the "abundant life." Of course, the trustees had the safety net of twi to cushion the reality of living on squat. Twi didn't amass $54 MILLION by generous giving and pension plans.....

Janet Clark graduated from the 10th corps and moved back to Montana? I seem to remember her marrying Art D. Anyone know where she is nowadays? Thanks.

And.......back in the early 90s, martindale insisted that GRANDPARENTS should be one of the first in line to help with college expenses. Obviously, martindale knew that (believer) parents of these kids were already tapped out. <_<

I heard this from a reliable source. 1) J. n3ssle (sp?) 2) no name mentioned

I recently heard that CFF had to layoff two salaried clergy from their payroll. Hmmmm.......where have I seen this pattern?

Yeah.....everything for GROWING their busines organization. Isn't it exciting to be a part of a 'tape ministry'.....and feel so connected? Just seems like 'once on the hook'....the leader keeps the pressure on so you don't swim away or something. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

Oh, there are still people who like their offshoot brand and like-minded compadres......but are not posting at this time. The CES/STI sub-forum has detailed many 'heated' discussions. But as you point out, roberterasmus.......YOUR OWN TEACHING (or wife's) is much more satisfying than being spoon-fed other's dogma and chunks of legalism. Not surprising that the family unit, and loved shared in thoughtful discussion, is more satisfying. The trouble with offshoots (imo).......is that most offshoots are headed up by corps who were trained in the ways of a narcissist, wierwille. All the emphasis is on "the integrity of wierwille's word"...nearly all offshoot activity is receptive-oriented. Where is the demonstration of the power of God? Where are those who hazarded their lives for the gospel's sake? A friend of mine attended the CES offshoot in 2005 & 2006. The fellowship he attended dwindled month after month until only some 5 men regularly attended. At times, John Lynn would come teach and a few extras would show up. Every other week, on Fridays......was MOVIE NIGHT....to add some variety. Suffice it to say, boredom was settling in. <_<

Although this topic on offshoots has been dished out here at The Cafe several times before, perhaps erkjohn's post (below) will spice things up. First of all, when it comes to offshoots........I think that TWI is an offshoot. A cursory look at Rev. BG Leonard's ministry........class structure, teacher-student relationship, emphasis on gifts/manifestations, syllabus and material, class picture, etc.......and then ALONG CAME JONES, er, wierwille. I suppose it's fitting for some to think that wierwille's twi was the "gold standard" for heralding THE WORD OF GOD, but GreaseSpot has debunked that line of thinking a thousand ways since Sunday. Just like xeroxing a copy of a copy and what do you get? Blurred outcome! How many offshoots of twi are out there anyways? And, how many varieties and shades of "holding to the truth of God's Word" are there? Heck, I remember running into rogue outfits in the late 70s......who CLAIMED to be following the ways of wierwille. They had pfal books and blue books for newbies to read. The Way green & black bumper stickers were on their cars. And, whenever three gathered......manifestations, to hear from God. The big-name offshoots........the John Lynn offshoot (which now, is John Lynn heading up an offshoot of his original offshoot?) was one of the first to arrive on the scene. Then, the geerite groups........co-opted and franchised to a funnel money into Geer's pocket of promises. Lots of posturing, lots of elitism.......lots of dry delivery. Of course, the CFF crowd embraced the wierwille mantra, the wierwille kids and wierwille fanfare. Grasping for "the good old days of twi"....the sentimental, emotional chords were tugged. Add some old way music, some familiar faces and voila!.......another offshoot is born. Region guys and corps charisma opened doors for.....Finnygan, Seeed, Sides, Panar3llo, and many others. And, yeah, ego probably has alot to do with it. Besides, where else can you start a job "at the top"......with a home office, travel perks, fawning followers, extreme loyalty, unaccountability, and a decent salary to boot?

In my experience, I tend to answer these questions depending on who's doing the asking and the tone of the questioning. IMO......close family and loving in-laws deserve more patience, more explanation. For some who might have been waiting for years for you to exit......all the missed holidays, weddings, funerals, get-togethers, etc. stifle any relationship. Therefore, if one is to begin building those relationships again, its going to take a significant amount of communication, trust, and time. Of course....I've had a few church/judgy people who simply wanted to "fly their flag of spiritual righteousness" and strut their pride. With them, I tend to delve into aspects of scripture that, most likely, they know nothing about. In this manner, they see that I wasn't just standing in airports selling flowers for the cult....... But mostly....after these many years, when I feel a need to explain my "diverse life" I tell neighbors, co-workers and such that I was in a non-denominational church group that delved into specific bible studies. With that, most just don't care to delve into a religious conversation after that.

So.....twi can display crosses in the brc, but YOU can't wear crosses because they "give off spiritual vibes that attract devil spirits?" Huh? Same with wierwille's porn.......HE can own it, but YOU can't. If wierwille owns it, the devil spirits will not mess with him. But if YOU have pornography, that's a no-no.

I seem to remember that wierwille thought displaying pictures of Jesus....was idolatry. IIRC......he explained that no one knows what Jesus looked like and to replicate him in a picture would be a man-made image. And that, would be idolatry. The dove was the accepted, all-encompassing symbol of spiritual expression and indwelling.

Maybe......80% of the people didn't like confrontation and 20% welcome it. Or.........80% of corps wanted to simply graduate and leave, while 20% want to lord over others. Pareto principle

Who sings that song? I like it.

As twi continues to whitewash everything martindale and his turbulent reign, is Rosalie and company fortifying the process of channeling wierwille? The statue of wierwille, pictures of wierwille, paintings of wierwille, plaques, monument at fountain area, books, videos, classes, founders' hall, founders' room, etc............channel his wisdom? revere his service? honor his commitment? what's the point? Webster defines channeling -- the process by which a person becomes a conduit for a deceased person. Of course, I think that Chris Geer added to this a whole new level with his poop paper and posthumous wierwille writings.....but then, twi stepped up their process too. All wierwille.......all the time. Sure, statist governments have this sort of dictator dominance in public view everywhere.....but, I thought twi was a CHRISTIAN group? Where are the paintings of Noah and the flood? Moses and the burning bush? David slaying Goliath? Jesus with his disciples? The empty tomb? Paul confronting the Pharisees? Yet......twi continues on this path of all things wierwille. The manifestations cannot take place without following the definitions that wierwille subscribes in his adv class. And, when was the last time twi had a healing service......open, out-front, for all the people to witness the power of God? Quite often, here at GS........twi is labeled a cult. But in channeling wierwille....twi is mirroring the occult.

And......that's why there is no roa. Corps numbers plummeted after cgeer's power-grab in 1986..... Then, as twi rebuilt....martindale "got revelation" to put all corps on twi payroll in 1995. Not surprisingly, this was the last year for rock of ages. Why? Because then twi would have to PAY for all the cost incurred by way corps. Traveling costs, food, motels, gasoline, housing during corps week/roa and travel expense home......ALL WOULD BE TWI'S EXPENSE WITH CORPS ON TWI PAYROLL. On the first corps meeting in September 1995, martindale announced that only "invited" corps could attend any Word in Business conferences. In other words, twi does NOT want to pay for you corps attending the event. Stay home, unless we need you to work. Exploitation of corps thru the years?........yeah, absolutely.

......kinda Speaking of "believing"....... 1) Wierwille did NOT have "believing" to put a foundational class together.....he STOLE it from BG Leonard and, then, added snippets of infor from Stiles & Bullinger. 2) Veepee did NOT have "believing" to start twi after stealing BG's class......he STAYED ON CHURCH PAYROLL for another 4 years. 3) Veepee did NOT have "believing" to build twi without free slave labor. 4) Veepee did NOT have "believing" to LEAD the leaders. He manipulated, coerced, exploited, etc......but he did NOT tackle the problems. 5) Veepee did NOT have genuine, leadership ability. pfffffffttt

Not once......in my 24 years in twi, did leadership deal with REALITY in tackling corp mandates of cw/roa attendance AND stay employed. Who gets three weeks of vacation time......in their first year of employment? Who gets to 9-5 hours, everyday, always....so as not to miss twig/branch meetings? Who gets another extra week off work.......to attend a way family camp? Add a couple kids, education, career building.......NO WONDER CORPS COULDN'T KEEP JUMPING ALL THE HOOPS THAT WIERWILLE & CO. DEMANDED. I've been saying this very thing for years !!!!! <_<

Oldskool.....check out the following link to see all you missed. The Backside of ROA