skyrider

John....wierwille stole "the red thread" teaching from Oral Roberts, not Bullinger. If you never heard the original teaching from Roberts, how do you know it was better in the wierwille-plagiarized version?

From the Scriptures: .....Jesus said, "He that has seen me, has seen the Father." Yet, twi leadership portray a beguiled, twisted, idolatrous ideology.....always striving for a "back to the (pfal) word as you were taught." Therein, to say, "he that sees you, can see what "the class" did for you! Was the sacrificing to run pfal, a sacrificing unto an idol? Yes. Directly and indirectly, pfal was the recipient of misdirected praise and worship. Wierwille and co. MADE these idols.....and walked in darkness.

Nice diversion.....side-tracking the devil-spirit-behind-the-wierwille-statue question put forth by waysider. If that's the best you got, johniam.......you really ARE running on fumes.

Did any of the aforementioned claim to teach the Word, the Word and nothing but the Word? The glaring difference is that wierwille was a deceiver and seducer who led people astray. In following wierwille's "truths"......one pays reverence to the man who "put together the pfal class." Just ask Mike.

Yes, twi made a statue of their revered dr. wierwille. Yes, twi erected a monument at the entrance of the Garden of Living Waters. Yes, wierwille's gravesite is elevated and central to the fountain's layout. Yes, twi named their "prevailing word" auditorium in honor of wierwille. BUT......all those pictures, and statue, of wierwille.....he's holding a Bible. So there.....it's not IDOLATRY.

Martindale claimed to have the inside track to Wierwille......in VP and Me Townsxnd claimed his special connection with wierwille in teaching pfal classes Cgeer claimed to know wierwille's "last will and testament" in his POP paper Others attempted to follow in his "research" and teach Corps Nights Still others projected knowing his heart for Way Productions Why is it NOT surprising that dozens of offshoot groups have sprouted and the name of wierwille is held in high regard? Why is it the wierwille offspring has arisen in another ministry group in Ohio? Why is it that the corps program, with the same 5 principles, is the major undertaking of wierwille's grandson? And, didn't John Lynn write a letter just a couple years ago stating that he believed....."Dr. Wierwille would be proud of him." Remember that? Folks, if this isn't IDOLATRY........what else would you call it? Some of the worst things about my corps "training" were........the corps coordinators gushing over wierwille, the fawning and adoration, The Wierwille Library, Uncle Harry Hall, Owens Hall, the circle-waiting for wierwille's arrival to campus, the "you are my keeds" comments, the wierwille-heritage nightowls, etc. I know, I know.....I shoulda left. I saw it and dismissed it as petty. Surely, this stuff was just a "respect for the man" and not something deeper?? Yet.....Mrs. W was touted as "the First Lady of The Way" Yet....."Uncle Harry" was a great pillar and businessman Yet.....Howard was "the greatest laymen of the church" Yet.....George Jess was this incredibly, spiritual corps director The kool-aide was served to the corps in huge quantities. By golly, this ministry was at the very center of God's will.....move over, Jesus. The wierwille brand and twi brand was everywhere. VP Wierwille Auditorium Wierwille Road The Way Woods Founders' Hall Founders' Room Why wasn't anything named after spiritual truths? Folks, if this wasn't IDOLATRY.......what else would you call it?

Nice post.

Think about it.....wierwille LEFT his church to search for more truth. Well.......after two decades of twi-cliches, classes, and dogma, it was time for me to get off the merry-go-round. Twi no longer held my interests. In fact, more and more questions were arising about their "research".....and, it was apparent that twi was suppressing all things beyond twi. Remember hearing that wierwille's church had stricken his name from the church history registry? Wierwille fumed over this.....and yet, twi BECAME that which they themselves despised. The mark/avoid policy came front-n-center when corps and clergy left twi's fold. Yep. Twi was just another denomination. Looking back.....the foundational/int/adv classes were INCREMENTAL steppingstones towards the cult house. And, once you graduated from the advanced class, you were IN. You were special and treated "special"......not unconditional, but conditional. As long as you obeyed their dogma, you could take you advanced class nametag and stroll thru the house. Same with the corps program.....it was INCREMENTALISM. We started the inrez training with a month of pfal indoctrination, again. Behind the scenes, the disciplining was the REAL programming that was sought. Jump when they say "jump!" In house, peer pressure, sleep deprivation, privacy deprivation, and coercion were the real levers of persuasion and indoctrination. By Christmas, they racheted up the "we are your true family." For some.....the indoctrination will last a lifetime. Therefore, I am not surprised that facebook shows slivers of this cult element. Many of these people will go to their graves....staking their belief system on twi's doctrines. Wierwille went to his graves "wishing" he had lived by another set of standards. Tell me again.....why we should live by wierwille-cliches, when even he wished he'd lived differently.

The coerced mind is the key to power.....twi's power.

According to scripture, renewing one's mind is a process. Twi taught "The Renewed Mind" as a destination.

Well, of course. That's how deception works. If you don't distract and subvert the truth, how are you going to lead them to your little corner of the world?

In the busy cycles of life and living, one rarely sees the incrementalism of bondage and servitude. Only by thoughtful consideration and peeling back the layers of doctrine, philosophy, social engineering, etc. can one grasp the direction of being led astray. After all, who would "willingly" relinquish their individuality and freedom over to another's control? I would venture to say that most took pfal to learn scripture and enhance one's living situation, no? Whether that was to increase meaning to life or follow the dictates of a loving God.....it was fairly clear-cut? I mean, really, who would have expected to incrementally fall beholden to twi for the rest of your life? The Game of Incrementalism is found in.......religion, politics, business, etc. To fall prey to this "game" in one's youth is fairly common....BUT to stay in those trenches a lifetime is quite something else. Has the general populace lost their critical thinking skills to discern when they're being "played?" Stepping back.....one can easily see how wierwille's status CHANGED thru the years as the incrementalism, the indoctrination, crept in unawares. From "Teacher".....to "Man of God".....to "Father in the Word"....followers were incrementally seduced to pay homage to this idolatry. Gee, do people go to the Fountain of Living Waters and pray at the altar of wierwille? Have the "prophets" in twi sounded the alarm of this idolatry????? Have the trustees/directors cited the scriptures of worshipping idols and denounced this practice that twi embraces? Have the ex-leaders, the offshoot leaders, issued stern warnings to their people of this wierwille-worship? To me, one of the things I learned in twi was WHAT IT IS NOT! With Christ as mediator.....twi is NOT my mediator. With Scripture to study.....twi is NOT the agent of truth. With Christian love.........twi is NOT the arbitrator of "true fellowship." I suppose......people, like sheep, will always be led astray. When will some learn the lessons of the scriptures to BEWARE? How many ways is this lesson taught? Leaven Seduce False Prophets False Teachers Wolves in Sheeps' Clothing Last week, I read where an Amish guy bilked millions from amish investors, the amish community. Just like the Hirschfeld scandal in twi, people are deceived by "sincerity." It happens, has happened, and will probably keep happening. Where is the discernment to separate the good from evil? Wierwille played the game of incrementalism well. I believe that he knew exactly what he was doing when he started twi, and later the corps program. Consistently, throughout his "ministry".....wierwille implants the seeds of commitment and obedience. YET, wierwille LEFT his church, his denomination, to strike out from "the suppression of not having answers." And, in the end, wierwille demanded totalitarian rule.....yep, the end justifies the means of deceptive incrementalism. Incrementalism, of course. That's The Way deception works!

Amazing, isn't it? Those who left twi during the "1988 exodus"....and are STILL entrenched in pfal-speak? After some 23 years "out"......and they gawk and talk like they're "in?" What could possibly be the theories? 1) A sense of "being there" when things were hot? 2) No other fabric in life to cling to? 3) Proselytizing....so they don't lose rewards? 4) To hang with the "in crowd" you gotta do xyz? 5) Indoctrinated....pure and simple? 6) Other?

Never seen it......but the lead actor, 10th corps grad, did several promos for a short stint. For a time, I think it was his full-time job. Obviously, with it being videotaped in the auditorium....it happened after March 1985. And, with twi in "Dances In Tights" practice and production, it more than likely happened after 1985 roa. By 1986, the Geer power-grab was coming into focus......and I seriously doubt much happened after that. The "fog" set in after ROA 1986.

Reflection upon life's experiences in relationship to one's learning curve is an amazing and humbling exercise. How often we here the old adage -- "Had I known then what I know now..." In 1975, when I encouraged my college friend to take PFAL, he sat thru the first two sessions UNTIL his parents intervened and flatly stated that TWI WAS A CULT. He promptly dismissed himself from pfal....and we agreed to disagree about twi. "Had I known then what I know now....." Yet, I was walking into the unknown, away from family and friends.....towards a "spiritual calling" and dismissing every warning sign (five-senses logic) on this new road. After all, walking by the five-senses was contrary to obeying God.....or so, as wierwille had twisted the scriptures to say in pfal. Really? How many scriptures could he have spotlighted to show how one ADHERES to what's happening around him/her to move spiritually? The book of Ruth? "Had I known then what I know now....." The Corps Indoctrination was the Brownshirt Blitzkreig......corps were never to ask, but jump to the commanding orders. Oh yeah.....that's spurtial, alright. NOT. Yet, all the numbnutz "leaders" before us....all the way back to the first corps are jumping too. Ummm.....don't the scriptures clearly specify that each one of us will give our OWN account before the Father? "Had I known then what I know now....." By 1978, I was having glimpses of breaking free from this indoctrination, from following this Cult Road. I saw a few brave men speaking out against the wierwille-idolatry. The 4th Corps Limb coordinator exited twi. A 6th Corps Region guy had moved back into the professional/business world. Some corps were going back to college and/or pinpointing their career paths. Could someone be spiritual, be corps AND pursue their own passions....I wondered? Couldn't we live for God and be UNIQUE as well? Isn't this groupthink "like-mindedness" alot like the Jim Jones' fiasco? "Had I known then what I know now....." Wierwille, was becoming more confrontational and more unglued. Three major episodes, which I've detailed on GS several times, gave me undeniable proof that wierwille was NOT the man he purported to be. He was a different man than his "stage persona." In closed-corps meetings, his true colors were showing as he yelled, cursed, and had his hissy-fits before stomping out. When he couldn't win the debate on merit, he quickly moved to intimidate his foe. I vowed to God that....WIERWILLE WAS NOT MY TUPOS, MY IMPRINT, OF SPIRITUAL INTEGRITY. "Had I known then what I know now....." When wierwille died....it wasn't long before Geer came riding in on his white horse to usurp the kingdom and garner the peasants. Same tripe, same manipulation.....calling us "back to the Word" or we ain't spiritual. Yeah, yeah.....heard that before, a few thousand times. No thanks. I ain't going your way, down your Gartmore Gullywash. By putting more distance and skeptism between me and twi.....I had reached the end of those "just trust me" teachings. A few years to confirm WHAT I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BACK IN 1975 and.....I had reached my destination. THE END OF THE ROAD :B)

Narcissism short-wires the brain somehow...... :) Will Rogers is quoted as saying, "Everybody is ignorant, just on different subjects."

Absolutely. That's why they are TRAITORS....guilty of betraying the scriptural truth. 2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

What did I find? Freedom. Freedom of thought Freedom from manipulation Freedom from reporting back Freedom from bondage....etc, etc. Freedom to live, love, and follow the dictates of MY heart.

In the context of "ever-teaching"......my mind runs to that scripture referencing those who are "ever-learning and never able to come to truth." Who are those "ever-learners?" THEY are boasters, proud, traitors, movers, shakers, lovers of themselves, and leading others astray. Hmmmm......does that sound like anyone we know? ***** 2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all [men], as theirs also was. 2Ti 3:10 ¶ But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of [them] all the Lord delivered me. ***** Did any of us fully know the VP doctrine? His manner of life? Purpose? Seems to me, wierwille moved deceptively throughout his life. He stole from others, made false claims, used self-bravado to puff up self, denigrated other church leaders, was not longsuffering or patient, had self-serving purpose to herald wierwille legacy, surrounded himself with women and toys, and surreptiously attempted to be the "man of God of the ages." <_<

Nope. To me, those "God moments" were the polar opposite of "something would click in a teaching." One is induced by a divine relationship, the other is prodded by the vanity of man. With regards to twi-teachings, at times.....my mind would cross-reference other teachings and red-flag discrepancies. I started seeing holes and contradictions in 1978, but was too indoctrinated at the time to exit. Of course, I never subscribed to the "man of God of the universe" theory, but weighed in the balance that twi had a majority portion of truth. Although I was correct on the "mog" aspect, I was incorrect on the latter. What a ride.

That ole bait-n-switch routine is twi's m.o. Seen it done too many times to count.

waysider.....according to their website, attached on your first post, October 7th is the big day......not september 7th.

The ever-teaching reality in twi was/is their cornerstone of control. The three pillars of wierwille's ministry....research, teaching and fellowship.... were merely lip-service, and NOT three equal legs to sturdy the stool. IMO....twi-followers are indoctrinated to pant after every new twi-sanctioned teaching. Manipulation, coercion and intimidation grease the machinergy as the followers, almost trance-like, head to their chairs for another teaching. Today, I find it almost surreal that I lived that "lifestyle." Perhaps I'm very different that most, but......some of my most memorable times during my twi-tenure were "God-moments," with holy spirit within and the sanctity of that one-ness. That was my zenith of true fellowship and perfect peace.

In signing the green card, one was supposedly going to "have the keys that would unlock the scriptures to the more abundant life." In twi's world, the pfal series was the holy grail in the wierwille kingdom. PFAL, INT, ADV.....and one is "fully instructed to walk by the spirit of God." Go WOW....."grow ten years in one." But, to be spiritually mature......."you need to go corps." Sit at the feet of "the master" and all that jazz. Upon corps graduation, you need to stay faithful to the man of God who taught you the word. University of Life teaching tapes are available for $220 a set....delve into Romans, Ephesians, Thessalonians, etc. Learn the doctrinal epistles, but most specifically highlight Romans, the "magna carta" of the believer. Etc. etc. etc. Sunday tapes? Way Mags? Of course......stay "tapped to the root." Attend every corps week and roa to be your best for God. Sweat and labor in the hot sun 6-12 hours a day and be ready to learn (cough, cough) from DOCTOR wierwille in the big top. He is THE MAN.......THE TEACHER. Ever-teaching, Never Living....... The pride of man thinks he always has something to teach. What he fails to realize is that life is passing him by and he is an obstacle for others. The hundreds of hours of sitting and listening to his platitudes is detrimental to righteous living. Perhaps, a simple "go and sin no more" would be pin-pointed truth that applies to a unique situation? In the mid-90s, twi had evolved to the point of subscribing to "the present truth".....defined as the truth one presently adhered to this day, this week. Martindale was the one who delivered what was HOT and what was NOT. The Ohio corps/followers were to keep detailed and organized files of these teachings. The "straining at a gnat" to be twi-righteous was appalling. This perverted doctrine of "present truth" had permeated twi and bewitched many. How ironic to think that "The Teacher" was a wholesale plaigarist.....and yet, there are folks in twi and ex-twiers who pant after another teaching. Ummmm....why not just try to live what one already knows? Why not practice some of the truths of lovingkindness, patience, moderation, kindness, love, etc? Or is one addicted to the idolatry of a man? Itching ears? Or, itching to "be about my Father's business?"

Further yet....some people rushed to defend wierwille's contradictory accounts by saying that perhaps the "almost black blizzard" meant that it was night (when wierwille specifically stated that it was a clear, sunshine morning). Even a few ex-twiers who had LEFT WITH THE EXODUS OF 1987 refused to consider that wierwille was outright lying about the "snow-on-the-pumps revelation."