skyrider

The "twi conundrum" is alive and well even today. For some long-standing twi-ers, wierwille-apologists, and splinter group devotees, they find it difficult to imagine that a ministry which began, at least in part, as a result of rejecting church dogma, legalism and few answers would set out to create a top-down ministry apparatus with the power to indoctrinate and submissively destroy the individual spirit of those hungering and thirsting for truth. According to Webster......conundrum is 1) a riddle whose answer contains a pun; 2) any puzzling question or problem. As wierwille masked his ministry and mission to lead followers in "the more abundant life"....followers found themselves shackled in perversions and half-truths of what the scriptures declare. And, in deceptive magic....wierwille pointed to scriptures only to later twist and contort them to ensnare the unsuspecting. For example, the "private interpretation segment" is pointedly clear....but it isn't long before wierwille is violating this truth and using it to his advantage. Soon, he is the ONE who is privately interpreting and inserting. For many, after sitting thru a pfal-foundational class some 20-30 times and hearing wierwille launch into his church vs. truth segments [ie "just when I needed the power, it wasn't there"]....one is conditioned to think that wierwille had the answers. From skittles to candy canes, wierwille repeated how he "searched for 12 years for the answers to the more abundant life"....how the Lord God spoke audibly to him and covered the nearby gas pumps with snow.....that twi is the true household of God. And, with youthful exuberance all-around to reinforce "independence" from church establishments, parents, and authority figures......it's as if, wierwille used their own vain imaginations and vanity to their own peril. Cliches and one-liners filled the teachings and syllabi with clever slogans: "The Word of God is the Will of God" "The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word" "Fear is sand in the machinery of life" "It's the rocks in the brook that make it sing" Perversions were supplanted to strengthen servitude to twi" "Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life" "We are followers of The Way Ministry" "Obedience to twi leadership is obedience to God" "Running pfal classes is 'moving the Word'" Then, notably......this became a 24/7 lifestyle for staff and corps and long-standing followers. The commune living.....way-homes, wow families, fellow-laborers, outreach programs, inrez-corps, etc all reinforced the indoctrination and conundrum. How does one BREAK FREE when they think that they're already "free?" How does one go about true living when they've become so institutionalized that they think they are living? How does one overcome idolatry when one thinks he is serving God by obeying twi leadership? A conundrum.......ain't it? .

Or.....it's being done deliberately. Adding thousands of TSA agents, levels of bureaucracy boosts the union rolls and federal govt footprint.....and democratic votes. With higher costs and frustrated travelers, will airlines be crippled and slide into bankrupcy? Will the airline industry then NEED to be federalized? More unions....more democratic voting blocks? One frustrated traveler wrote a blog about tsa/airline travel and directed his ire towards a submissive conditioning. He cited the conformity and numbheadedness of patting down 88-year old ladies, kids, and all without thought to patterns and profiling. Why are travelers being "victimized" by a numbnuts federal government while the Detroit "crotch-bomber" was read his miranda rights? And yet.....our southern border agents are being reassigned leaving a porous 2,400 mile border

And, thus.....IMO wierwille was a false teacher. While some proclaim that pfal validates wierwille as a "man of God"......I say that it was a vehichle he carjacked from Rev. B.G. Leonard's class: 1) foundational scripture build-up, 2) highlighting gifts/manifestations given, 3) class scheduling, 4) attendance and punctuality, 5) class graduation, 6) class picture, 7) repeat class for free, 8) canada research centre - biblical research center, 9) Canada Christian Press - American Christian Press, 10) class format ministry. And, from there.....wierwille constructed his "ministry" into a self-idolizing command center wherein he was The Teacher, The Man of God, The Father in the Word, The Patriarch, The President.....The Recipient of TWI Praise. He stood in the spotlight, full and proud......not once, telling the twi followers to STOP PRAISING HIM. Year after year, the idolatry thickened in twi and consumed it. As wierwille battled health issues and was nearing death, Geer's POP paper gives testimony that wierwille felt "his people had abandoned him." The false teacher was embittered to no longer bask in the daily praise of "his" followers. Thus, from 1957-1985.....it's the wierwille, the wierwille, and nothing but the wierwille.

But, but, but.....isn't it a "kinder, gentler, superiority complex" in action?

So.....did the MOGOAT (man of god of all time) function supercede the five gift ministries of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers? Is that how the counterfeit command center operated?

Got it. And.....there are clearly no "Happy Feet" in twi any more.

Well, at least.....you didn't subscribe twi as the colon.

When did TWI become.....ONE moving part? All the marching orders, the "ministry be not blamed" or "going down with the ship"....flies in the face of pfal, the "Christ-on-you" of each individual. Plus, the scripture that state...."the eye cannot say to the hand I have no need of thee" exposes twi's flawed doctrine. The Body of Christ teachings/analogies in the scriptures clearly show Christ as the Head. When did TWI become.....the HEAD of "God's ministry?" When the Apostle Paul traveled to Corinth, Galatia, Thessalonica, etc.....did he teach/minister to them as ONE ministry? Was Paul intent on setting up a headquarters and ONE teaching platform? Will "the ministry" stand as ONE before the bema?

Both times......PUBLIC. Both times......mere acknowledgement of one's presence. With this background, I gain the understanding that you, johniam, were never around wierwille at all. So, all your postings, all your pontificating of wierwille's character and integrity is thru the pfal and/or teaching stage platform. Some of us were on staff and brushed shoulders with wierwille on a daily basis.....lunch in the BRC, visiting with him on the wierwille porch or front lawn, dined with him via Mrs. W's invite, head table experiences, nightowls, one-on-one time, way prod. rehearsals, high country caravan stuff, etc. And, even then......there was a very PRIVATE, SEDUCTIVE SIDE OF WIERWILLE that many of us never seen. Some of the women have come forward with this information. Johniam....your credibility to add to these discussions is definitely waning in my opinion. You have "outed" yourself on this one.

johniam....with all your postings, you still have a disconnect. If wierwille/twi were truly "of God"....then wierwille would NOT have FORCED OUT followers who fell asleep in his corps meeting....or the sexual predation would never have surfaced. If wierwille/twi were truly "of God"....then staff and corps women would not have been FORCED OUT to silence their outcries....nor would wierwille have labeled them "possessed" and remove all credibility. If wierwille/twi were truly "of God"....the whole organization would have not been a pyramid, tyrannical dictatorship.....nor would the corps program have been a secluded indoctrination camp. If wierwille/twi were truly "of God"....then grace would not have been used as a license to sin! Pfal was filled with private interpretation of a man's lust for sin and self-willed indulgences.

Sorry Steve.....I was really just trying to elaborate on your post and state the obvious to johniam. I agree with you on so many levels.

And....to add to that, if you're so pro-twi: 1) Why don't you, johniam, go to twi home fellowships? 2) Why don't you abundantly share to twi and further their efforts? 3) Why do you hang with splinter groups and NOT the "genuine" groupmarch?

You mean....a culture of sex, drugs, commune-living, sin-erased teachings, generic "righteous-living feel-good" teachings, motorcoach seductions, inner-circle grooming, bum-rushed dissenters, lies, cover-ups, and all that?

Wierwille chose to lie and deceive. Wierwille chose to plagairize and steal others' research. Wierwille chose to walk in darkness rather than the light. Wierwille chose to push boundaries and target the vulnerable. Wierwille chose to puff himself up with pride and cigarettes. Wierwille chose to be drunken in drambuie and dimwittedness. Wierwille chose to seduce in doctrine and in practice. Wierwille chose to be a sexual predator and destroy lives. Wierwille chose the devil's playground......day after day. Wierwille never could conceive that the internet would EXPOSE him....as he spent decades covering his tracks. The man really wasn't as smart as he thought.

Of course, not all community organizers take things to that extreme.....nor do all "ministers" have security guys patrolling the surrounding roads or bodyguards or motorcoaches or target traditional churches. And, despite wierwille's rhetoric, spiritual or otherwise.....he used all the levers of big beauracracy, central control, dependency followers, squelching individuality, corporate trained personnel (corps), sunday teaching tapes, all major events with wierwille front and center, diminished region/state authority and petty cash accounts, rogue twig leaders were pruned from "way tree," all monies funneled to hq, bless patrol at roa (tsa agents?), favors and perks to inner circle, etc. etc. Wierwille used his levers of power to rule with a tyrannical hand......and his underlings splashed his name and picture on the "wierwille magazine" for decades. In targeting the RCC and other churches, wierwille manipulated his followers in a covert agenda. He took his message to the youth.....the downtrodden, the outcasts, the hippies, the misfits. Sound familiar? No, not all fit into those categories, but large swaths did and the swell of momentum continued. He demagogued his opponents....stirring and agitating twi followers to do the same....and yet, twi became just another religion unto itself.

Perhaps.....a cult leader's mission is closely aligned with the goals of a community organizer. To get others involved, one has to stir and agitate. As the group becomes more "like-minded".....unity and commitment intensify. Yep....Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" comes to mind. For Alinsky, organizing is the process of highlighting whatever he believed to be wrong and convincing people they can actually do something about it. The two are linked. If people feel they don’t have the power to change a situation, they stop thinking about it. According to Alinsky, the organizer — especially a paid organizer from outside —must first overcome suspicion and establish credibility. Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy. This is necessary to get people to participate. An organizer has to attack apathy and disturb the prevailing patterns of complacent community life where people have simply come to accept a situation.

Along withe the MANY warnings about vp.....for years, I kept thinking "Where are the signs, miracles and wonders? Why haven't I seen wierwille in the middle of God's miracles? Why doesn't wierwille initiate a healing service at the Rock of Ages anymore? Why is twi's headquarters so religiously dead?" In hindsight......I believe that wierwille was waxing more seductive and evil. Although many wonderful God-revering folks were in twi and searching for truth....twi's roots were growing idolatrous and wicked imaginations. Interesting, isn't it?.....as Rev. Billy Graham, age 93, basks in the sunlight of his golden years and respect from his colleagues/ministers worldwide, wierwille has been in the grave for 26 years and now the evil is coming to the light. What a contrast!

Yeah.....the Greasespot discussion forums will do that for you. Thanks Paw. And, speaking of boundaries....what else was moved? 1) Plagairism.....wierwille is lauded for "putting it all together" 2) Acceptance of "The Word".....ie private interpretation 3) Elitism in "knowing this word" 4) Bullying and verbal arguments 5) Etc. etc The sex boundaries in wierwille's world are vivid red-flags that were flying overhead in twi, but the subleties of attitude and arrogance and manipulation and coercion were in play as well. Year after year, the corps bullying grew worse and worse. What you look at, you become.......and we were looking at WIERWILLE. Having johniam here in these discussions serves as a guidepost of HOW FAR BOUNDARIES WERE MOVED IN TWI.....thanks john. And, to see that posters challenge him on every front illustrates that we no longer are seduced by the cult.

Here's a perspective that few consider.....regarding wierwille. In 1957....wierwille left his church pastorate (age 40) In 1967....pfal was filmed and finished near end of yr (age 51) In 1968....wiewille in California and looking for orgies (age 51) In 1975....Christian Family and Sex class is videotaped (age 58) In 1978....wierwille and corps girls on motorcoach (age 61) IMO....wierwille had orchestrated this world of seclusion and privacy to serve the lusts of his flesh. By choice, his life was spiraling downward year after year....and he was teaching and pulling others downward with him. Without the "man of God" title.....many would label him a dirty old man. But really, wierwille's life is simply a testimony of the truth of the scriptures. As wierwille spiralled downward.....he LEFT his heavenly Father and embraced the world's evil. 1 John 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. Wierwille's life ended with a THUD.

Sometimes, I think that in our youth......many of us swallowed all this "wierwille family farm, heritage, and legacy" stuff that was blown way out of proportion. Heck.....there was only 147 acres and a broken down farm house in 1961, before victor moved his "ministry" back to Dad's homestead. Being born and raised in rural America....I can attest to how wimpy 147 acres is. In farming terms.......its SQUAT. Maybe 147 acres....one can raise a small herd of cattle on an alfalfa field with a chicken coop, some hogs and a small corn field. But really....it ain't much. Small farms are like 3,000 acres......big farms can have 8,000 - 15,000 acres or more. Dairy farming, crop farming, cattle ranches, etc......all are different and many can have assets into the millions. Really....seems like NONE of the wierwille boys wanted to farm. And, imo....the only reason wierwille headed back to "the farm" was for seclusion. He could shelter himself in his own little world of narcissism. The wierwille heritage and legacy is laced in idolatry.

I agree.....wierwille knew he was deceiving himself. Pour another drambuie and avoid the subject.....and only in the most private settings attempt to seduce with "spiritually mature can handle it" jargon. The man DISQUALIFIED himself from teaching or leading anyone. The Timothy and Titus scriptures couldn't be any more plain, PERIOD.

Totally agree......and it bears repeating!

johniam......this discussion started with questions, NOT stating that VP is worse than the Penn State guy, a pedophile. How can you possibly research or discuss anything in proper context WHEN YOU DON'T READ WHAT IS WRITTEN? This discussion started with this post: "Sexual predators and cover-ups are making news again. The Penn State scandal involving Jerry Sandusky, a defensive football coach under Joe Paterno, and young boys has rocked the college football world. A whistleblower broke the story....... And last night, the Board of Trustees fired Graham Spanier​, president of Penn State, and Joe Paterno​, the legendary coach of the Nittany Lions. YET.......The Way International has black-listed and denied any "whistle-blower" who came forward regarding sexual predators like Victor Paul Wierwille and L. Craig Martindale and others. Books have been written....detailing the sexual predatory ways and destruction of lives. Waydale and Greasespot, specifically, in the past 10 years has outed twi's ways of darkness. Is it MORE evil to be a sexual predator of young boys? Or, is it MORE evil to be a sexual predator of young girls.....who commit their lives to God and enter a secluded, religious-campus setting? Or.....is a sexual predator a sexual predator, PERIOD???!!!"

johniam.....I'm not sure if "the word" you learned equates with the scriptures where.. one who oversees must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre. Is the word "must" an absolute? Does "blameless" mean blameless? You admit that IF you'd heard this stuff in the 70s....before you were indoctrinated and seduced with wierwille-worship....that it would have "concerned" you. IMO....that's an admittance of wrong-doing and you, in your depth of heart, know it. Wierwille just ain't the man many thought he was. He was a chronic sinner and devoured many lives along the way. Even wierwille admitted it....."I wish I were the man I know to be."

Yeah....I saw it with my own two eyes. The 6th Corps guy who fell asleep during wierwille's corps night teaching was the recipient of a 20-minute, tag-team, screamfest! Wierwille went ballistic and red-faced....unloading toxic adjectives in superlative terms. After wierwille was nearly flothing at the mouth....martindale tag-teamed the verbal assault. It was ugly. The guy was utterly humiliated and kicked out of the corps meeting. From what I'd heard....he turned in his staff resignation letter the next morning and was sent packing. With some medical attention, this corps guy was diagnosed with blood sugar imbalances and given medication. Needless to say, wierwille sure missed all this when he was spewing out the "devil spirit possession" verbage......and I witnessed wierwille coming unglued and completely off-base. So much for wierwille's mog-ness.....pppfffffttt.