skyrider

The demise of twi was inevitable......after all, who among us wanted a top-down command authority dictating our lives? My first couple of years in twi were liberating as I lengthened my stride to "run the way of His commandments." Way back then.....twigs were short, succinct, and spot-on! Dozens of twigs were 30 minutes tops!! We got in, got out and were on our way to other nightly activites by 8:15pm.....and for a college student, the night hadn't even STARTED! Things were simple.....and I couldn't have cared less about some "organizational apparatus" in Ohio. But....being a team-player and full of energy, I dived in. Two years of back-to-back WOW Ambassador and then, inrez corps. And, by the end of my first year.....I realized, that unless twi changes course, THE DEMISE OF TWI WAS INEVITABLE. If wierwille was hellbent on accelerating a hierarchy of yes-men and clones, then everything in pfal was window dressing. The left hand (rigid control) was working at odds with the right hand (pfal--walking in christ). Why was wierwille injecting two opposing forces? With each passing year, vpw was moving twi's trajectory towards a top-down denomination control.....I thought this man was "tapped in?" Obviously, he wasn't........and I knew it! Perhaps, I became a rebel with a cause.....my gut told me that the establishment was off-base. Here I was inrez corps and highly suspicious of this cloning program. Why can't I be ME? Why do I have to mimic HIM? If pfal taught me anything......it taught me that the 'christ-in-me' is a special, unique relationship that only exists BETWEEN Christ and me. Wierwille was not included in that divine relationship that God established and sanctioned with a covenant. Neither was martindale. Really....it WAS that simple. And, unless twi changes course, this whole thing will derail. Period. For years I tried to help. For years, I stayed in twi doubting what I saw as inevitable. For years, another hq co-worker and I talked about what we might do to implement change. We thought "Word in Culture" might awaken the trustees.....writers, artists, orchestra musicians, singers, craftsmen, inventors, sculptors, doctors, psychiatrists, etc. were coming to twi AND into the corps. I held out hope that this would spark a fire and devour the inevitable demise. It never happened....the hierarchy doused the fire. Perhaps.....martindale's presidency will rekindle the fire? If wierwille wasn't going to change course, then perhaps martindale is the man of the hour? Some changes, some extra passion, some "athletes of the spirit" stuff........but the heavy-handed trustees weren't going to relinquish their acquired power! The machinery was in place to resist change. And, the dreaming stage of "a multi-purpose auditorium where the word of god is spotlighted on a grand scale" became the focus in the backrooms of the trustees and architects' office. It was going to have an orchestra pit and a rehearsal room .....and, and, and, and it was going to help move the word over the world. Top-down command..........the demise of twi was inevitable. Wierwille died. Top corps leaders jockeyed for power. No surprise, really.....the undercurrents of riffs were in play for years. Really, the "ship" had been taking on water for about 10 years.......now, it was going to sink. No surprise. The trustees were fools to not see the demise. IT STOOD RIGHT THERE IN PLAIN SIGHT. .

Isn't the lunchtime meal.....MANDATORY? Perhaps, not in writing....but stern warnings are issued about the IMPORTANCE of these midday "announcements." In other words, if you mess up on something because you didn't hear that "memo" tucked in 40 minutes of ranting.....then it's YOUR FAULT. See...that's how manipulative the whole outfit is. If numbers of staffers start to skip the meals, the higher ups are hellbent on TARGETING YOU and thwart your individuality!

Yeah.......LEGALISM does that as congregants shrink in fear and fossilized in trepidation. Without the energy of youth.....Grandpa Wierwille's Religion would have looked like this in the 1970s!! Dress it up all they want and it still can't DANCE...

Lalalalaaaaa.....(just warming up first) IMO....the worst song that we sang at Emporia alot was....Father Abraham And, the hand motions were ridiculous....

Do those people not realize that they're living in an ECHO CHAMBER..?? Living in a world.....without hardly a thought to call their own.

The power of the microphone is a wonder to behold. Actually, it's not the microphone itself.....but the PERSON, the PERSONA, or the PARTY that dominates the airwaves. Twi's teachings and classes play a significant part in molding thoughts and conforming doctrine......but its MORE than that! LUNCHTIME AT THE WAY......was a power play that few acknowledge. More often than not, lunchtime "announcements" began about 20 minutes after the food had been passed around. Yeah....20 minutes, about the time people began to actively CONVERSE around the table and talk about their day and so forth. But like, on cue, some leader from the head table would pop up and grab the microphone!! Seemed like twi had a system of suppressing conversation...... Seemed like twi was using this time to control thought........ Seemed like twi had an agenda to overload the airwaves........ Clearly, this was NOT like my high school cafeteria days. Nor did it have any resemblance to my college lunches at the dormitory....not even in the same ballpark. Can't a guy have some space here? Why do they insist on "assaulting" my lunch hour??? C'mon wierwille.....do you have to treat us like kids?? Do you have to condescend to us every day, even at lunch? C'mon martindale....do you have to give us your version of the world? Are you the "way's version" of a newscaster? Holding the microphone is like holding a sword.....it represents POWER. The power of persuasion, the power of controlling thought.....is one of the great deceptions known to mankind. The premise of a stated position......is the fulcrum of leveraging power. Court attorneys know this very well. Closing arguments have the ability to persuade a jury as they go to deliberate both sides of justice. Remember this from twi? Watch Your Thoughts Watch your thoughts, because they become your words. Watch your words, because they become your actions. Watch your actions, because they become your habits. Watch your habits, because they becomes your life. Watch your life, because it becomes your destiny. TWI STANDS AT THE MICROPHONE DAY AFTER DAY.......TO HELP YOU 'WATCH YOUR THOUGHTS.' .

Rosalie is a slow-learner..... In 1981 at Corps Week, wierwille gave the way corps access to the microphone to ask questions. At this time, martindale was designated as president-elect....and many corps had pointed concerns with policies and/or the direction of twi. Well, it didn't take too long before wierwille and martindale got visibly agitated. Confrontation erupted and the question/answer time was shut down. Around 1992 at Advanced Class Special....same deal. Martindale allowed for questions during the Sunday 'sharing' service. When will Rosalie learn? The discontent is there......in 1977, some weren't happy that twi wasn't going to use the new 'pfal '77 class to update the old version. With skinny-tie wierwille, some wanted to 'move on' with a growing surge of excitement. In 1978, wierwille had to confront and stifle corps who wanted to address new research with their corps research papers. Three 8th corps men had ventured into an area that wierwille disapproved.....and, in the years to follow, all corps research papers had to have twi approval BEFORE starting. Twi has been suppressive for nearly 35 years.....at least. .

Just trying to be funny.....not offensive :unsure:

Today......singers on stage dress frumpy, And........old staffers that usher are grumpy. The wheelchairs roll in, Reading the sermon begins. The mass exodus of THOUSANDS was indeed bumpy.

The irony of ironies has inhabited the way international. Back in the early 1970's.......we were hip and so cool to be shaking off our parents' religion. We found something new and it broke the mold of church and religious monotony......or so we thought. Leaving parents and family and friends behind, we left to change the world. They had summer school advances....not retreats. They had classes on biblical research, not vain worship. The place had youth everywhere....buzzing excitement and fun. Grandpa Wierwille was wearing those snazzy, wide-lapel suits to look hip. Grandpa Wierwille was a few years younger than my own Grandmothers, but I didn't notice. Grandpa Wierwille had and entourage and handlers like a rock star celebrity. Grandpa Wierwille would drive away in his motorcoach as followers cheered and waved. Today, the rock stardom and status is gone from The Way. Yet....Grandpa Wierwille's Religion is there to stay!

Wierwille was fond of the phrase...."Most people just think they think -- dat's riiighhht!" So, the question I have is.........."And, what did wierwille do to change that?" Even some in the Research Department have come forward and shared that "wierwille's research" was not to be questioned. So, if it can't be questioned and/or altered with greater insight.... then in blunt terms, wierwille has ALREADY DONE ALL THE THINKING FOR US. How convenient....for the one who gets to rule and pontificate from his porcelain throne.

Indoctrination is a process of inculcating ideas. ...."inculcating" is to trample underfoot, to impress upon the mind by frequent repetition or persistent urging. Were our ideas and attitudes and emotions suppressed? Were our ideas and attitudes and critical thinking trampled underfoot? Were our ideas and attitudes and goals diminished and side-tracked? Doesn't "The Teacher"......the instructor, carry the bulk of the responsibility in impacting young minds? Doesn't the "Authoritative Figurehead" set the parameters of the learning environment or supress it? Doesn't the "Class Instructor" become the indoctrinaTOR when a sequence of teachings has a self-serving agenda? Doesn't a 55-year old preacher have an unfair advantage in subtlely usurping a 22-year old's freewill? TRUE learning is an exciting adventure. PSEUDO learning is deceptive entrapment. .

Education is defined as "the process of training and developing the knowledge, skill, mind, character, etc. Instruction is defined as 1) the act of instructing; education, 2) knowledge; information, etc. given or taught, 3a) a command or order, 3b) any of the sequence of steps to be followed as in doing, using, or operating something, 3c) a sequence of bits, specifying an operation to be performed. Indoctrination is defined as "the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology. It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned." When I step back and look at my twi experience, I find these questions: 1) Did wierwille initiate a ministry that was designed to instruct the believer in right doctrine? 2) Was the pfal class a series of sessions to promote consideration and assimilation of concepts? 3) Or, was pfal a series of sessions that provided a sequence of steps toward indoctrination? 4) We were told that all questions would be answered......but, were they? 5) Did twi provide an environment for questioning and dialogue after bible study? after classes? 6) What about corps training? Wasn't there deep-provoking questioning to engender more learning? 7) Or, was CP#2.."Receive training in the whole word so as to be able to teach others also."..a sequence of indoctrination? 8) Was there heavy-handed intimidation used against those who asked genuine, and disturbing, questions? 9) Didn't Jesus see thru how Pharisees laid traps with their questioning...yet, disciples had true, heart-felt questions? 10) If one quits asking questions and critically examining doctrine...is that the tipping point towards indoctrination? In another recent thread, on the advanced class......some are questioning the learning process. That's a good thing, right?

Be careful, John.......you are starting to come over to the "dark side" with this line of questioning.

Yes, that's what I meant about trade-offs.....some things better, some things not. In our youth, we were absorbed in friends, excitement, no responsibilities, laughs, fun, good times, good health and indestructable attitudes. Some abandoned college education and/or careers and lived in the moment. Many used twi's teachings to mean....."do as you fool please, and God will give you cookies daily." What's not to romanticize? In later years, I realized how twisted and manipulative the whole outfit was behind the scenes. The corps program was coerced indoctrination under the guise of "leadership training." And hq, with each passing year was regulated to the point where some departments had you sign out to go to the bathroom. Some departments had backstabbers and those who wanted to sabotage your efforts. By 1982....that "living in love" slogan was totally laughable. Looking back, having spent 24 years involved in the organization......and then, wife and kids in tow, left daunting challenges ahead. Overnight, twi labeled us mark/avoid because we stood against martindale's sex-romps and ilk. We knew too much and were a liability. So, twi did EVERYTHING in their power to strip us with character assassinations, our network of friends, and spreading lies in areas where we'd served the past 15 years before. What does it say about a "church".....when, after leaving, it takes you 15 years to REBUILD YOUR LIFE? .

penworks.....I decided to come back to this from another perspective. Like alot of things in life, change has its trade-offs. Some things better.....some things not. Twi always sold their classes as......more knowledge, more power, more impact. Martindale sold his presidency as.....establishing believers, present truth, prevailing power. By 1995/96......martindale decreed that you can't put "wierwille's old wine" into new wineskins. As far as I know, few of us ever took the time to look back at the old farm days.....too busy "moving forward." HERE IS THE REAL KICKER..........How did Rosalie convince twi followers to REVERT BACK to wierwille's material after martindale savaged through it? From what I've learned and heard.....with cunning craftiness, she subtely walked back the martindale presidency ever so slowly. Using vanity as a lasso, she allowed many corps to teach the sunday teachings....giving them recognition before submission. And, field corps were given the "spiritual responsibility" to teach martindale's WAP class live to the new students.....thus, distancing martindale from the ministry radar. Incrementally raising the heat......the frog is boiled alive without realizing it. So, to answer your question......no, I don't think that twi-lifers think that "the farm days" were better. Everything in twi depends on forward motion.....teach twi material, run classes, collect abs, more students, upcoming events, repeat.

Well......probably not the hyperbole of "polar extremes" but vastly different. And, really....I don't presume to know how wide swaths of followers might think, so I'll take a stab at some broad strokes to categorize differences. 1972 Wierwille Farm 1) Elen@ Whites!de's snapshot of living at hq....and the wierwille-farm version. 2) Small staff....everyone is friendly and loving 3) BRC......the "center of activity" of teachings & meals in basement 4) The wierwille farm.....roa near the jordan river 5) The kipp farm....Ira He@rne, GJess, and others 6) Hungry?....just go fix you a late night snack in the brc basement 7) Less rules and mandates....people just living, learning and growing 8) Not a bunch of babies and children everywhere 1982 Corporate Muscles Being Flexed 1) Wierwille handing the mantle of leadership to Martindale 2) Staff numbers growing to near 475......240 corps staff or so? 3) Long-time non-corps staff are being replaced by corps grads 4) OSC is the new "center of activity" for teachings and meals 5) Major hub of workload.....Outreach Services Center building 6) Monthly staff meetings....who are the new people? 7) Ambassador One plane / New Horizons & other singing groups 8) Living Victoriously and ROA are major planning events 9) Five corps campuses......2,800 active corps grads? 10) Military Outreach/Medical Outreach/WOW-Vet Outreach.....newsletters, etc. 1994 Martindale On a Terror 1) Martindale is asserting power after "Fog Years" 2) Homo Purge / Non-Productive Purge / Debt Purge......suspicious/confrontations 3) Sunday Teachings are laced with rants.....stay sanctified/stay salted 4) Splinter Groups are all cop-outs with possessed leadership 5) Wierwille material is Old Wineskins.....shelve it and move on! 6) The 2nd President (lcm) is here to ESTABLISH your walk with God 7) The Present Truth.....soon, The Promised Land is peeking the horizon 8) The new and better way.....The Way of Abundance and Power series (1996-98) 9) Faxes were sent to Limbs all hours of the night!! Legalism/Report Back 10) 1995 -- all corps full-time was the revelation given to martindale 2012 The Way International Today 1) Where is Rosalie taking twi now? 2) Will others be coming to this forum to speak out? Again.....these categories are simply broad strokes of the changes over the years. Others might focus on totally different patterns from "the farm" to corporate status. I, in no way, am trying to compare twi are a major player in corporate usa.....just attempting to show how the perceptions and messaging changed in 10-15 years. On this particular thread, "Layered in Bureaucracy".....it seems kinda necessary to point out these changes. .

geisha.....thanks. Those scriptures always move me, as well. A mighty one of valor standing for the True God and His people seems to be one of the epic stories of all mankind. One man, one faith, one mission....it sells at the box office, too. In its least common denominator, I take comfort in knowing that the simplicity is in Christ. A spiritual haven from the storms. And yet, life gives us countless reminders that evil men work their deeds both in the shadows and bureaucracies of life......business, religion, government, etc. No longer are we living in a world where "a man's handshake is his bond." Perhaps, it never was....but, I see that society is cycling into turbulent times and waxing worse and worse. Seducers and deceivers are on the move, gaining more momentum. To not recognize this is, in my opinion....is an attempt to suppress the truths of scripture. In less than 10 years, twi became so layered in bureaucracy and corrupt that it was hardly recognizable. Those who remember it as "a farm" and gathered around lunchtime in the brc basement AND those who heard the OSC lunchtime rantings around 1994 and beyond.....are at polar extremes. Is it any wonder why one would question, "How did twi become so embedded with corruption and hypocrisy if gift ministries were truly serving and admonishing in their midst? Where are those men who are supposed to shield us from those who craft evil to deceive?" Then add....the layers of stolen works, plagairism, lies, myths, whitewashing, predation and twi bureaucracy and one has to RETRACE THEIR STEPS TO THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST AND WHY ONE STARTED THE JOURNEY IN THE FIRST PLACE. And rest a bit. :)

socks....want to elaborate on the above two statements?

After the advanced class.....I was puzzled by this as well.

Me either.........and that's ANOTHER path of indoctrination.

Hence, like I said........"the twisted world of indoctrination"

And......it EXPOSES the double-standard hypocrisy that drips....and drips.....and drips at the way international. That's why there was a cover-up. That's why there was a vow of silence. That's why the inner-circle exists....to protect the image. That's why so many who were ONCE insiders.....are long gone! Wouldn't it be fair to ask? 1) Mr. Wierwille......what caused you to be "out of fellowship" and wreck the twig-hopper? 2) Do you not realize what this looks like.....and how the ministry could be blamed? 3) Where was your believing? The Lord would have told you how to avoid this, but you didn't listen.

I understand......and agree with you. In 1978, our 4th Corps Limb Coordinator left twi....even though, his Mom worked on staff at hq. And, even though I never got to ask him the underlying reasons for his exit....I must say, it got my attention. Why the abrupt decision? What did he see that I didn't see? And, although I continued my involvement in twi....I saw red flags and hypocrisy time and time again. While on staff, I firmly realized that the "wierwille marketing" was cunningly manufactured. Wierwille had an inner-circle of yes-men who protected him on every turn. The wierwille motorcoach and clubhouse and dog kennels were like guarded areas. In 1983, when wierwille wrecked his twig-hopper in Ontario.....it was hauled back to hq in complete secrecy!! The Ambassador One staffers and other insiders set up a closed-in paint booth in the OSC Warehouse and repaired it and repainted it....and added even more decals for those motorcycle shows. BUT......no one broke silence! No one leaked the information that the twig-hopper had been wrecked. Neither did I. In the aura of wierwille-mogdom, this type of incident would simply diminish wierwille's stature. Suffice it to say......Rosalie knows that the mystique of wierwille is equivalent to having a goose who lays golden eggs. Now granted, that goose isn't laying alot of eggs anymore......but a couple here and there is better than none. Without the wierwille myth to market, the goose has flown south never to return.

Absolutely !! When I exited twi....the one verse that I held with conviction was Luke 4:18. Twi did NOT represent the anointed power of Jesus Christ and with each passing decade, twi was becoming the OPPRESSOR and CAPTOR and ABUSER. I was totally convinced in my heart that leaving twi was deliverance!! Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,