skyrider

Well.....the cynical side of me thinks that Slick Vic had a few tricks up his sleeve and came to the card game with a loaded deck. 1) Wierwille grabbed that 'pfal class' in Calgary, Alberta and made a mad dash home to teach it (1953). 2) Then, Wierwille bailed on his Van Wert church after an 8th month itinerary on their payroll (1957). Wierwille KNEW when to hold 'em (corps leaders) ...........and when to fold 'em (kick their a$$ out).

When did you ever see wierwille exhibit 15-20 minutes of sustained, vehement anger and disgust for anything or anyone BESIDES dissenting corps leadership? Church leaders? Devil spirits? Drunks, Adulterers? Illuminati, Witches? Seriously......I cannot recall ANY SUSTAINED ANGER INCIDENT that eclipsed wierwille's utter viciousness towards exiting corps and clergy. Of course, generally only small segments of corps were privy to these outbursts. Except one major confrontation happened in the OSC dining room at a corps night meeting in 1981. Cowering thru life is......NO LIFE AT ALL.

During my 24-year twi involvement.....The most fiery, sustained confrontations from wierwille and martindale were leveled at dissenting leadership. Nothing else comparable to it! The most divisive, vicious, vein-popping, profanity-spewing and sustained-intensity periods of 'hatred' were unloaded in closed-corps meetings!! Three of such verbal attacks from wierwille are still vivid in my mind to this day.....and its been 30 years ago. Yet, with martindale's confrontations......I can think of some eight to ten over-the-top rantings during long-distant corps meetings via telephone hook-up locations! All those "grandpa" images of wierwille were shattered! All that "you're the best" one-liners was cheap-speak! All that "spirit is thicker than blood" was a joke! These fiery confrontations were delivered with vehement anger that, several times, lasted 15-20, minutes!!! If you were on the receiving end of one of these....it would seem like an eternity. A couple of times I received "mini-confrontations" and it was perplexingly ugly. Why all the huffing and puffing....and trying to blow my house down? Why the verbal strip-search? In what deep abyss does this venom and evil-fire reside? Yes, Jesus addressed major confrontation in Matthew 15 [TO the Pharisees].....but where in the Scriptures does Jesus verbally assault his men, his disciples? Even Judas, the sop was given. Anger? Venom? Where is it? What about the Apostle Paul? If someone can point me to those scriptures, I would like to see them. If someone can show me wierwille's fiery anger was justified.....I will consider. But until then, I contend that wierwille's confrontations were masking a taskmaster. Same with martindale (and Rosie).....the evil makings of two-fold their corpsmaster. What's the objective of these fiery confrontations for others to see? DON'T YOU DARE THINK OF DISSENTING... DON'T YOU DARE CHALLENGE MY AUTHORITY... DON'T YOU DARE MURMUR OR DISPUTE MY RESEARCH... If you want to "take me on"........then, wierwille will shred you to pieces. Textbook character assassination is awaiting all those who dissent or assemble an insurrection. The trustees will NOT allow it. The security patrol have eyes and ears everywhere. Even if you conspire off-grounds, when you're on twi property they are WATCHING you. They know the beginning signs of dissent are manifested in thoughts, words and then, actions!! There are reasons why nearly 475 clergy are NO LONGER WITH TWI. Cowering thru life is --- NO WAY TO LIVE.

As long as Rosalie and co. believe and insist that "Wierwille was Infallible"..... .....the downward spiraling will continue. Reason: It Borders On Idolatry.

Martindale's sexual predation wasn't just targeting inrez corps women, but staff corps grads as well. I have specific information on this.......but that's all I'm going to say. She's moved on in life. Therefore, the better question might be...."Which years are you talking about martindale's predation at Camp Gunnison?"

No surprise, really.....if the scriptures meant what they said and said what they meant. No surprise, really.....if twi was being led down a path without Christ as mediator. No surprise, really.....if corps program was indoctrinating men/women to blindly obey. The Downward Spiral of twi = bite and devour and consume [Galatians 5] Confrontations, bait-n-switch tactics, manipulation, coercing, intimidation, exploitation, etc. What part of this "feeding frenzy" did/do they not understand? It is inevitable without agape. Bite = to seize and pierce Devour = to eat hungrily and voraciously Consume = to destroy; to absorb completely

Yep......downward spiral = demisING

With ponderousness........perhaps, "The Demise of TWI was Inevitable" BECAUSE the demise of wierwille resonated in his heart to inflict and interlace a charismatic, cult personality with cut-n-paste scriptures from numerous sources. In my spiritual expedition......I found not only the inevitable demise of an organization, but those who would "bite and devour and consume one another" to retain their positions of power and control. No surprise, really......since the scriptures unveil this downward spiral to those who forsake the liberty that is Christ-centered.

To me, the $64,000 question is......Did wierwille ENGINEER the way inc. as a pseudo-religious, MLM business model with the goal of sitting in the big CEO chair? Yes, wierwille spouted scripture to build his "empire"......but was it all an ENGINEERED ploy to acquire power and unaccountable authority? I mean, really......major swaths of evidence point towards a man who quarreled with his Van Wert church board, continued to live on church payroll for 3 1/2 years yet planning to jump ship, "snowstorm stories" that are highly questionable if not out-n-out lies, a foundational class that was stolen from another reverend, a man who bullies to get his way, and a 60-year old narcissist who engaged in sexual predation. Perhaps....."The Demise of Wierwille was Inevitable" as he deserted his pastorate and lusted after the flesh and pride of life BEFORE twi was a twinkle in his imagination? Yet.....pearls of spoken truth, when believed, will have impact ....even if it comes from an a$$. [Numbers 22:28] .

With all the different classes, newer updates and different splinter groups teaching their versions.... it's not surprising at all to see some confusion. Actually.....in looking at Twinky's statement, it seems to be the pattern from GEER'S CLASSES. Didn't geer teach his adv class.....THEN, intermediate class.....THEN, foundational class???? Yet..... 1992 ----- Martindale presented vpw's advanced class.....with live teachings and augmented segments 1996 ----- Foundational Class......The Way of Abundance and Power series (martindale) 1997 ----- Intermediat Class.......The Way of Abundance and Power series (martindale) 1998 ----- Advanced Class..........The Way of Abundance and Power series (martindale)

Actually.....you were both right. Just referring to two different classes. Martindale updated the advanced class....TWICE.

Thanks for the update. And.....it just proves the point of accrued interest and investment that twi sits on. Under current conditions, twi is able to sustain economic viability. And, rosalie will be able to ride this wave if she likes....BUT it reeks of hypocrisy.

To help clarify.... OldSkool....your post is referring to Martindale's WAP class series, and completed it in 1998. Twinky......yes, martindale did tweak and update wierwille's adv class in 1992. This class was to rally the advanced class grads to his side AND counter what geer was doing across the pond. But.....in 1996, martindale taught the foundational class of The Way of Abundance and Power. In 1997....martindale taught (videotaped) the intermediate class. And, in 1998.....martindale taught the adv class. Then, there was major hoopla at headquarters as Rev. B!ll Gr33n, the trunk coordinator, presented martindale with special gifts and adoration for this NEW, IMPROVED CLASS SERIES.

Translation: We have power OVER you and will ultimately drive you into submission....or drive you away. Every staff employee faces those daily crossroads where conformity meets conscience.

Yes, it is possible......AFTER twi's finance department informed the trustees that twi had reached STATISM where they were in a position of economic viability without persistent outreach. $35 million? --> $45 million?.......manage investments/ lower payroll/ shrink operating costs/ sustain image In today's twi, some have posted that twi has $52 MILLION.... If twi-followers keep sending in $$$$ to sustain payroll/operating/maintenance.....then twi can keep MILKING THE CASH COW. An ENGINEERED demise crashes all the concepts of "new...dynamic...prevailing...etc"....but what else is new? .

Yeah...but with the sly devil around we had to stay alert to his O'Wiley Factor.

For a period of time.....I spent alot of time reading the gospels and pondering the life of Jesus Christ. The Pharisees, the religious hierarchy, were surreptitiously engaged in ensnaring him and, ultimately, signing his "death warrant." Jesus addressed their deception and hypocrisy and traditions of men in supreme "undressing and unmasking" terms! To me, the corps program was wierwille's unmasking of motives.......where "submission and discipline" were the underpinnings of three years in the guise of "leadership training." The academic/study side was pfal rehash.....and the work side was a joke. The program was an all-out assault on individual liberty and dignity. And, the classic bait-n-switch reared its ugly head as corps coordinators implied that we owed our lives to this ministry with a lifetime of service. In other words, you signed up to serve twi.....period! Wierwille's twi was aligned with Phariseeism........straight up!

...and the seed boys of the earth that introduced the Fear Factor.

And....running parallel to the Ooooh Factor and the Yawn Factor as the material was presented day after day, was the herding from place to place, the release groups, and the manipulative machinery providing a Covert Factor.

Yeah......some things I did see clearly, other things not so much. Had I not gotten engaged and all when I did......I'm quite certain that I'd have exited twi in 1981. But hey, that's a whole 'nother story, and don't we all have our "other" stories?

Ummm.....yeah, it does fit. :)

Yeah.....vanity of vanities! Business, Religion, Politics, Non-Profit Orgs........left unaccountable, power corrupts!

And.....and it reeked of wierwille's condescending smugness.

Hey, nothing wrong with picky.....when it comes from someone like you. Yeah, my saying "spot-on" is relative.....to a LOCAL succinct teaching. What I was trying to convey is that it was uplifting and not condescending or preachy. Just one Christian peer trying to uplift another. I'll take "picky" from you any day. You're one of my favorites.

Wierwille's johnny/maggie/henry example of private interpretation.........was a ruse, a deceptive ploy. He jumps in to lecture us about "why don't they read it in CONTEXT".......but does wierwille teach the significance of "private interpretation" IN ITS CONTEXT??? No....he doesn't teach the lead up verses in II Peter to give the full context in its rightful place. Wierwille was a cherry-picker......and wouldn't find a ladder to reach the higher, sweeter fruit. <_<