skyrider

In 1997, Rosalie Rivenbark was VP and John Reyn0lds was Sec/Tr......it wasn't looking good for twi. Rosalie......divorced, 2 sons, one did some jail time J. Reyn0lds..divorced, no relationship with his son..remarried. Yeah....THOSE kind of people as trustees in "christian org." <_< One more thing -- not just being divorced, but ACTIVELY ADVOCATING the divorce of others if they do not tow the party line of twi. That's pathetic. .

And......if twi can WEDGE a separation between husband and wife, then TWI'S AUTHORITY IS NEEDED AGAIN and back under twi's subordination the couple go. I repeat...."Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod." [Religion/Political--hierarchy]

IMO....twi's re-education camp only aggravated marital commitments. Quite often, the wife needed to help with children while the husband was spurred in other directions. Twi defied change.....changing and evolving with the family unit. The cycle of growth, school, identity, relationships, challenges, parental and family unity, etc. were squelched at the behest of twi priorities, always! Those who savored the joy of coddling babies, swingsets, outdoor fun, picnics, family traditions, building memories, planning for success, kids' college, etc.......was taboo in twi. Ya see.....wierwille's family was ELEVATED ON HIGH....wierwille threw a huge double-ring wedding reception at hq when his two kids, JP & Sara, married their spouses. Some were drunk as the drinks kept being poured near the Clubhouse. Time to celebrate.....the last two wierwille kids were getting married off! The narcissist bubble of "all things wierwille" had no end. Wierwille's Focal Point of Wierwille Doctrine -------- I

johniam......why do you consistently post about sexual activity? Time and time again, you bring this up.

Yeah.....I always attribute getting away from twi like JUMPING OFF A MOVING TRAIN. You have to plan ahead and look for the right time for you and your family. Preferably, you can jump and find a "soft spot and roll to safety." It doesn't always work. Sometimes, a spouse doesn't want to jump when you want to jump, or visa versa. What about the kids? What about finances? What about twi's message machine to discredit you and/or put a wedge between you and other family members in twi? IMO....many who EXIT twi have thought about it for months, if not years! As confrontation escalates, one either submits OR begins taking steps to plot his escape. In 1978.....when my Limb coordinator, Rev. J0hn Cl@y (4th corps) exited twi, I didn't understand it much. BUT NOW I DO.

Thanks penworks.....looking forward to your info on this 2nd Corps re-indoctrination.

OldSkool.....twi has a way of re-writing history and lots slips thru the cracks when it doesn't polish their image. From what I remember, this 4th corps group (18-20?) were the last group to be "Re-Called" for more training. I don't remember another group, like the 5th corps grads......but it might have. The real strange thing about this "re-education camp at hq".......these 4th corps were given basic training, again. You know, aerobic points, punctuality at every meeting, lots of meetings, no deep-dialogue or questioning......in other words, same drill. According to my talks with Steve, my unit was next to his..........it was demeaning intentionally! That's one of the dirty little secrets at hq........the agenda is to KEEP YOU SUBORDINATE, ALWAYS!

Back in 1980-81.......wierwille "invited" many 4th Corps Grads to hq for more inresidence training. The 4th corps had graduated many years earlier and some, bluntly, were NOT happy to be there. Apparently, wierwille felt that some of his field leaders needed to be reined in.....so he called them back to "run them thru the paces again" for a three- month period stretch. During this structured "re-education," I spent time with Rev. St#ve S@nn and he voiced the absurdity of this approach. From what I remember, he didn't use the word "indoctrination"....but the implication was very clear. Wierwille was using a heavy-handed approach to subject them to his authority.....and they knew it! And, wierwille made a couple of derogatory remarks about their attitudes/subjection during a staff meeting. IMO.....this "re-education" has several agendas: 1) It thwarts the momentum of corps grads whose liberty in Christ springs eternal 2) The "re-call" to hq implicates that these corps need re-training 3) Wierwille attempts to reassert himself as THEIR authority 4) Relocation is a major ploy of twi to disconnect strong corps grads from splintering away THE WIERWILLIAN FOUNDATION WAS CRACKING UNDERNEATH THEM......the clergy were revolting. More and more were starting to see that wierwille had a deep, personal and narcisstic agenda to build his own legacy. In hindsight, we were starting to see the last vestiges of wierwille's mog-relevancy as more dismissed his authority. Corps grads were "coming of age".....and life was moving onward. The manipulation was NOT working anymore. The wierwille intimidation didn't get any traction anymore as these 4th corps couldn't wait to get away from hq! At twi's 40th Anniversary in 1982......victor paul wierwille was recognized for 40 years of service and was stepping down. The wierwille family were paraded across the main stage in the Big Top tent and wierwille decreed that "the wierwille family needed to stand together for THE WORD to live." Thick, thick, thick......the wierwille legacy was the cornerstone of twi, NOT christ. The wierwille family crest was displayed....wine glasses with the wierwille crest were sold in the bookstore. And, wierwille gave the mantle to lcm and drove away on his ultra-ego motorcycle...rarily visiting a twig again. So, how impressive was all this build-up? Who was coming thru the doors and WHO WAS EXITING? Apparently some weren't taken in by all the hoopla because in June of 1982......a 1st Corps grad, Rev. M1ke Sm1th, left twi and headed for Alaska. I never saw him again. .

Deleted - Topic for another thread. Sorry.

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Rejoice......twi is NOT christian, it's wierwillian. Devil here, devil there, Devil in your desk drawer, Dealing with the Adversary dealt to us, Born of the seed of the Serpent...oh, the fuss, Tripped out, cop-out... What's wierwille talking about? Where's God in all of this? With Him, we overcome....what did I miss? Greater is He, for all to see, Keep Him first, bend a knee, Wierwille yelled and held The Book, Yet, in God I trust...to Him I look.

HCW.......welcome back. Yeah, after stepping away from wierwille's twi......it does look different now.

Thanks....same goes here. During that 1993-1997 period........santify purge, homo purge, non-productive evil purge, debt purge, salted purge, promised land purge,.......martindale kept raising the bar of what twi expected from "their" followers. At times, I had raised my concerns for some of these issues to corps clergy. The "Mich@el F0rt confrontation" was another one of those DISAPPOINTING AND YET, ASSERTING MOMENTS.....where I could not swallow twi's company line. Nope. No thanks. Don't believe it. Someone's being railroaded for a reason. ANOTHER DIRTY LITTLE SECRET IN TWI.....if you are long-standing corps leadership and chose to exit, they will smear your good reputation. Twi cannot allow you to assert individual authority......and leave. They MUST verbally assault you, because as long as you have access to "their" people....you are an enemy of twi. Been there, done that! After we left......the assaulting began. Within 16 hours, the Region coordinator couple was in our city. All day long, they held meetings with corps, then with advanced class grads......see the pattern? Top-down control.....then, the others follow. That's been the pattern of indoctrination since the wierwille days. By day two, ANOTHER REGION GUY showed up to join them. Strong-armed thuggery is the way things are done when dissenting leadership speak out! After we left and the martindale lawsuits couldn't mask twi anymore....high ranking couples headed for the exit doors!!! Rev. T&B L@lly [Region Leaders in TX].....left in the middle of night, no forward address Rev. D. S@iler [President's Cabinet]......left twi Rev. A. L1cht [Region Leader in FL]......cut ties and gone! Rev. P. M0squeda [Region Leader/Corps Coordinator]......"praise be to LCM" was gone! Rev. L. P@narello [Trunk/Region Guy]......the biggest cheerleader for Martindale after "fog yrs" left in 2002 There were more, but you get the message......and still others stayed in twi. Everyone has to assimilate this information together with their experiences and what was swirling around them at the time. Rev. B. Th0rp and others found the exit in 2004 or so....and that's how dissenting leadership KEEP FINDING THE EXIT DOORS....

OldSkool.....hey, I wasn't trying to correct what you were saying...just giving more background as to why Michael might NOT have wanted to go back to Kentucky. I have no idea what escalated the Martindale vs Michael confrontation that played out on Corps Night for all to see/hear. To me, one of the most telling truths from this whole ordeal......Martindale labels Michael F. possessed as devil spirits are "blowing right thru him"....and yet, Michael & Cindy were assigned INDIANA LIMB COORDINATORS. How does a "possessed" man get assigned to run a Limb? Did someone cast out the spirits?

THE DECEPTION FACTOR AT HQ..... 1) Martindale gives "revelation" that Michael has devil spirits blowing thru him......ie POSSESSED. 2) This major confrontation is handled on corps night.....inrez corps AND corps grads hear this. 3) To not rattle USA trunk (suspicions)....Michael & Cindy are demoted to Indiana Limb coordinators. 4) So......trustees give "possessed" guy a Limb position to oversee.

The twi-directors think that corps haven't figured out the DIRTY LITTLE GAME OF DEMOTION......but most have. It goes like this.......corps individual starts to assert his own decisions (maybe good decisions, maybe not)... ....upper leadership starts to realize that corps individual is not "tied to the hip" and taking orders ....small, snipy confrontation in private is the upper leader's first line of "correcting" corps assertiveness ....if corps individual keeps confidence/assertiveness....then, a group confrontation is needed ....if corps guy STILL knows he's right and won't budge...then, all hell rains down on him to "humble" him ....if contention persist, then corps guy is sent packing (demoted) for DAMAGE CONTROL PURPOSES You see, twi couldn't give Michael the bums-rush outta hq.....IT WOULD RAISE TOO MANY FLAGS So.....twi-directors utilized DEMOTING Michael in stages......and THAT folks is the dirty little game they play. Note: The scriptures give method of "trespassing against another" [Matt 18:15-17]....but is one to be "cast out as a heathen" for trying to assert individual authority in a cult? If I remember correctly, Michael had already BEEN the Kentucky Limb coordinator back in 1980-81.

That's the problem with lying.......one has to remember how to tell it the same way each time. BOTH of wierwille's "snowstorm stories.... 1) the snow on the gas pumps 2) the snowstorm in Tulsa, OK ....have discrepancies and distortions in them. Mrs. Wierwille's book will be revised soon........COUNT ON IT. :)

Indeed.......12 year of upper-level, legalize-lording of leeches and the transformation is shockingly apparent.

Sounded like many of those corps meetings..... Some of you (blah, blah, blah) Some of you (blah, blah, blah) Ooooh, he's furious......the fury of the Lord, of course.

A very thin veneer. Unless twi has vastly changed and been ordaining women in the past 10 years.... .....there were 26 ordained women in twi at one time. Today.....as far as I know, only 3 ordained women remain in twi.... ...1)Rosalie Rivenbark, 2)M@rcia Gr33ne, and 3)Cl@udette Roy@l.

Yeah......Mich@el F0rt can be added to the list of "Fiery Confrontations." Although my corps assignment was many states away.....I vaguely remember the scuttlebutt that led up to this character assassination on corps night. We were on phone hook-up when the Forehead hammered michael to a pulp. It wasn't quite the vehement intensity of the wierwille confrontations that I witnessed, but then again.....I wasn't in the room. But nonetheless.....when the mantle-given mog decrees that HE GOT REVELATION of "devil spirits blowing right thru the trunk coordinator" its doesn't have the possessed label on it, but what else would you call it? Mich@el F0rt was ordered to stay away from the corps meeting that night and listen from audio pumped to OSC location. So, there ya go, martindale gives a scathing report of "Mich@el's degenerated spiritual status".....and the corps are to fall in line accordingly. One big thumping of grandiose manipulation!!!

Oh, yeah.......the L@llys were assistant trunk coordinators before Craig got pi$$ed with trunk guy, Mich@el F0rt, and trashed him on a corps meeting. Remember the "revelation" LCM said he got.....something about "a picture of Mich@el with holes thru his body" MEANING that he, Mich@el and the trunk dept, were like a sieve (a utensil to strain particles) and DEVIL SPIRITS WERE BLOWING RIGHT THRU HIM AND THE TRUNK TO GET TO CRAIG? See.....Tom and Barb stepped into the Trunk Office to PROVE that they had the fortitude to withstand all onslaughts for Craig!! The L@llys never saw the manipulative snare that martindale laid before them......they sold their souls to twi! Wierwille did this stuff to martindale and geer. Martindale did the same stuff to the L@llys. Rosalie is doing same to her cabinet men. Note: Mich@el F0rt, son-in-law of Howard Allen......was demoted to Indiana Limb coordinator. As far as I know, he chose to step away from that assignment around 2004 to pursue secular employment. Still involved with twi....but not on payroll. AFAIK

In journalism, it's often said...."Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel." In twi-cultdom, same deal........."Never pick a fight with someone who holds the microphone as a sword over you."

Wierwille's "Word" was incubated in his heart, bottled with some scriptures, dressed in positive believing and suited in Wierwille's Self-Worship.

johniam......an old post by satori summarizes and concludes an interesting perspective: "Here are some things that occurred to me reading your post... There were lots of good times at TWI. Friendships, adventures, great memories, some "learning," for better or worse. And there was the bad. For some, the "baby" was the experience of living through TWI's experience for a time. We may wish to turn our backs on that part of our lives, but it's better that we embrace and understand what happened - denying neither the good, nor the bad. For others, the "baby" is the ministry itself, the corrupt source of it all, the twisted teachings, the flawed leadership, the bureaucracy and social caste system, and Vic Wierwille who was always corrupt, along with his henchpeople who either were or became bad to join the (evil) enterprise. Some may not have clearly seen the corruption, flaws, etc., which is why they want to "save the baby" so badly. Either perspective is accessible to everyone, though we often fail to define them, or to recognize them, in context. This causes some unnecessary confusion, I think. oldiesman loved the experience, so much so, he forgives the enterprise. He reminds me of the assassin in the DaVinci code. It's as if the ministry gave his life virtually all of its meaning. TWI = his redemption. Where else can he go? Others believe the corrupted root eventually corrupted the fruit, and differentiate between the quality of their initial experience and the integrity of the enterprise. Those found the experience worthwhile enough to stay until they were harmed by the enterprise, which changed their experience from good to bad. When the experience went sour, some discovered the evil nature of Wierwille's enterprise. This sometimes tainted everything that came before it, depending upon the individual. Others blamed themselves, often because they were blamed by others, or they remain confused."