skyrider

Yeah.....another one of those hidden details or freudian slips of wierwille's past.

Yeah.....in our youth, I believe that's a fair statement. So was WIERWILLE......an insecure, low self-esteem, pastor in 1941.....READY TO QUIT. ....even twi documents his life with having few answers at that time of searching. ....and, it was Dr.EEHggns, by vp's admission, that got him to take a look at his naked body in a mirror. ....yeah, wierwille had that LOW of self-sesteem You know........LOTS of people were never around wierwille when he was in his 20s, 30s, 40s.... .........I never even met wierwille UNTIL HE WAS 58 YEARS OLD --- (1975) .........And, after all these years.......I'm STILL NOT 58 yrs old. .........And, I certainly wouldn't put up with that crap at this age!! The old f@rt manipulated us all the way to the bank!!! .

And, not just wierwille per se........but the spinning of the web, the stickiness, the vibrations all the way back to the spider who is concealed from the unsuspecting victim. Although there were pockets of outreach....CA, NY, KS, OH, & NC in early days.....wow ambassadors were sent out to establish 'twigs' that would remain faithful to twi. WOWs carried a message of "God is great and personable....and he delivered me. Spiritual abundance in knowing Him is available. Come check out twig." Excited youth reaching others and who ever expected a spider lurking unawares to devour? Classes and stages of growth....you want to grow, don't you? Who knew that these classes were steps of subtle indoctrination? Even the Renewed Mind class interlaced scriptures to and fro spun in loving-God intricacies.....NOT some mischevious manipulation wherein one would REPETITIOUSLY RECITE WIERWILLE'S WORDS AND REFUSE DEEPER ANALYSIS. Even the corps program was far more than just its teachings......1)isolation, 2)elitism, 3)corps concepts, 4)peer pressure, 5)elder corps reporting on younger corps, 6)news of world filtered thru twi-spiritualizing, 7)friendships developed, 8)comaraderie to help each other, 9)battling thru tough times, 10)24/7...etc. etc. TO THIS DAY, HOW MANY CORPS GRADS COME TO GS TO EXPOSE TWI'S EVIL? Yet, "they" isolate themselves on that other website and play in their little sandbox of 'corps commitment' or something. My point......twi has an intricate web of deception that few have ever been able to detail. I have often wondered if wierwille ever stumbled across the writings and books of William James or someone similar to learn psychological methods of indoctrination? William James - Click Here Will to Believe Doctrine "In William James's lecture of 1896 titled "The Will to Believe," James defends the right to violate the principle of evidentialism in order to justify hypothesis venturing. This idea foresaw the demise of evidentialism in the 20th century[citation needed] and sought to ground justified belief in an unwavering principle that would prove more beneficial. Through his philosophy of pragmatism William James justifies religious beliefs by using the results of his hypothetical venturing as evidence to support the hypothesis' truth. Therefore, this doctrine allows one to assume belief in God and prove His existence by what the belief brings to one's life." .

Rocky......yes, THIS is the essence of twi being classified, by some, as a cult. Unlike the many bizarre cults like moonies, hare krishnas, people's temple, heaven's gate, branch davidians, etc.....twi offered this christian youth movement that captivated the solidarity of its followers. No selling flowers at airports or meditating for hours in solitude, twi was attracting followers in ways far deeper that public perception could ever imagine. I contend that wierwille and co. stumbled-bumbled their way into this system rather than some deep sinister masterplan of sorts. Failures are easily documented throughout wierwille's tenure.....but it is notable that a system of indoctrination was developed wherein someone like Rocky, in the above post, notes after 25 years of detachment that "it remains a major aspect of life between my ears." How can that be? And, how is it.....that long-standing followers hundreds of miles away are still fiercely loyal to their doctrines knowing full well that wierwille was a plagairist, a predator and a drunkard?

The syrofoam cup thread reminded me of this.... Back in the '70s, we were shown an old twi promotional clip from 1966 or so. This 30-minute clip, thereabouts, was to promote 'The Way' and its biblical research center where "hundreds" were attending Dr. Wierwille's sunday teachings each week. The film clip showed a line of cars turning into the brc parking lot and smiling people heading into the brc in droves. The audio soared wierwille who had tapped the resources of this research and was teaching it to the Ohio community and its spreading throughout the world. Anyone remember seeing this? Anyhoo.....while inresidence, our corps group had a special evening in the BRC with Mrs. Wierwille and she made mention of this old promotional clip. As she reflected on it a few seconds, she sheepishly giggled a bit and THEN........she proceded to tell us the 'behind the scenes' activity: 1)twi had some 14 cars cleaned and polished prior (of course), 2)when people entered the brc -- they walked straight thru and out another door and circled the building to, deceptively, show more people, 3)camera angles and editing helped to stage an appearance of something much bigger than it was. AND THEN......mrs. wierwille revealed to us that even wierwille's desk and leather chair from pfal filming were RETURNED to a furniture company after the 1967 filming. Twi used this furniture BASED ON FALSE PREMISES. They had no intention of keeping/buying this furniture. I gotta tell you......I left the BRC meeting with less respect for Mr. and Mrs. Wierwille that night. <_< .

The top-tier leaders in twi have been manipulating things ever since I can remember. IMO....the corps assignments are nothing more than "playing favorites." They gave their crony-pals more highly-prized assignments and would send others to places on the field like Mississippi or North Dakota or Wyoming. The good ole boys club was alive and well in twi. Corps with inheritance money.......G&P Freder1ck, B&D Moneyhands, L MacDuff1e and others were pampered and coddled. Same goes for physicians and celebrities (if any came). Wierwille and co. were hypocritical in favoritism towards money and status. They've reaped what they sowed.......for decades.

waysider.....you covered alot of ground in that post. 1) introspection....taking the time to stop and search "how you got there." To honestly evaluate one's circumstances and the decisions of one's past is quite sobering, for sure. Facing a grim reality has a way of jolting the braincells. 2) indoctrination...you "refortified" thought processes with the organization's material and stopped considering alternatives. How many times I'd done that thru the years! Red flags were flying and I saw them.....and yet, the I had been conditioned to SHUT DOWN CRITICAL THINKING. 3) deception.....twi rigged the odometer and, I'd add, a cheap, flaky paint job. Wierwille knew it from the get-go. The whole dealership is run like that.....the front office, the salesmen, the clerks, and guys in back in the shop. EVERYONE THERE KNOWS! 4) conscience....uppity twi leaders have hardened hearts and a seared conscience. They don't feel shame.....and leaves little wonder why the word "conscience" is detailed 31 times in the NT. Insightful post......thanks.

Really? Where'd you hear THAT?

In studying the deceptive tactics of wierwille and co. to advance their agenda, with a sullied and sordid list that stretches from plagairism to predation to posthumously preachment, the bottom of the bottom line was......the manipulation of one's consent. Thread after thread, I cannot help but see that twi is the usurper of the core of the individual, one's consent. Whether its in written form, or verbal, or nonverbal condoning......twi continues its spiritual assault on their followers UNTIL THEY RESIST. As long as one stays in that 'relationship of insubordination'.....twi leadership are in control of your life. You are allowing it. Perhaps, the mindset is so ingrained with such spiritual abuse, that the twi follower is unaware of its prowess, and its damaging effects. Whether....1)Incrementalism, 2)Hold the microphone--Hold the power, 3)Instruction vs Indoctrination, 4)Reeducation Camps at HQ, 5)Most Fiery Confrontations Leveled at Dissenting Leaders, 6)Corps: The Leash Gets Shorter...etc. etc.....every stage, every program, twi is targeting YOUR CONSENT OF APPROVAL. Of course, the early stages involve love-bombing and aggressive undershepherding and keeping you away from your friends, family and co-workers. And obviously, the pfal class and subsequent classes have no room for dialogue and questioning the material. The droning of information is overloading your brain circuits.....DECEPTIVELY AND INTENTIONALLY. In the mid-'70s, one of those deprogrammers claimed that "The Way International was one of the most deceptive and subtle cults in America." Unlike other dramatic cults of that era where Moonies sold flowers and Jim Jones' followers set up a Jonestown commune.....the way ministry was not like that. After all, even Bud Morgan endorsed its message with the film 'Changed' featuring the Str@uh@l Family and events surrounding PFAL '77. Yet......how many took notice that the Str@uh@l family exited a few years later? One consent and one step at a time, twi strengthened its power. Having finished the advanced class, twi sent out a form letter stating to the grad that, now, he/she 'owed his life to the ministry.' Ballsy, huh? What an outrageous claim! What a power-grab of individuality! The proper response should have been......A ONE-FINGER SALUTE. In isolation and behind closed doors, the corps program was a 'power grab of consent' in one full swoop. Many, of which I am one, perceived it more along the lines of bait-n-switch. Yes, I'd signed on the line for christian service.....BUT I DIDN'T SIGN UP FOR THIS! My mind swirled with rebellion in the first month of that inresidency year! Why so many classes? Always? Why can't we have a night off to enjoy the sunset? Are you kidding me?....self-structure time on Saturday is from 1-4:30pm....BFD! And really, you dumb-shxts don't have to regulate my aerobic point. I'm so d@mn tired of sitting in classes....I WANT TO RUN AND GET OUT OF THIS PLACE. From newbie to clergy........twi has devised a system of usurping one's consent. At no point along this chain do you hear, "Why don't you go home and pray for the Lord's guidance and see what He has in store for you?" Each step, each time you consent....the doors to this secret temple lead you down another passageway. Whether there's 33-layers to this pyramid, in Masonic-like structure, I don't really care to know....but what I do know? The deeper in you go, the more non-Christian its virtues. By the grace of God, I found my way out. And, today I stand strong on individual liberty and will not let it go. No longer will I allow groupthink to sway my integrity or my morals. Giving away one's consent...is giving away one's life. Proverbs 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.

WW.....where are you quoting from? I don't see those comments in this thread.

In 1984, the roa number peaked at 24,000.....the highest in twi history. Men like Bo Re#hard and Vince F. claimed that this number, or slightly higher, was the accurate measure of active followers in twi at its peak. Some agreed that perhaps another 3,000 might not have been able to make the roa trip due to work or finances.....but by this consensus, twi never had more than 27,000 followers at any one time. The revolving door in twi was always whirling......those coming, those going.

Megachurches..... *Steven Waldman, "Fastest Growing Religion=No Religion(New Religious Identification Survey)," beliefnet.com, March 9, 2009 .

((twinky)) Take care of your heart. I know the hurt and feelings all too well. If you need to talk pm me. skyrider

geisha & excie......yeah, I'll toss in my two cents worth. When I heard about twi, my initial involvement was to learn of this biblical research work. At the time, I was attending college and was dating a Catholic girl and, introspectively, pondering my future. Therefore, my sole interest was to learn more scripture and plant my flag on what I believed. My sports-filled and rural background undergirded me with an independent mindset and this new transition to college life and a Catholic girlfriend was a bit unsettling. Anyways.....for me, twi was a gateway to learn more scripture. Nothing more. Like so many others' stories you hear, the incremental steps of twi's doctrines, classes and programs had gained a foothold into my life. And, I had deep reservations concerning the polished image of wierwille as the teacher, or as my teacher. I emphatically reserved the right to change my mind. But as life moved along.....my wow sister convinced me that I really should go into the corps. She admired my discipline, my level-headedness and compassion for others. I have stated before that had I not been engaged, I would most likely have exited twi in 1981. My many posts on GS give countless details of seeing dissenting leadership and fiery confrontations. Amidst the stormy seas, my greatest treasures were hidden deep within: a wellspring love for my lord and savior and a compassion to help others. With twi's new research books coming....Jesus Christ Our Passover and Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed....my hope that twi would move beyond wierwille (and martindale). Could God Almighty do that for us? I truly thought He could. So I stayed. Well....long story short, it didn't happen. But with each passing year, I kept true to searching the scriptures AND holding twi accountable to them. My rock of twi-accountability was Luke 4:18....the start of Jesus' ministry being full of holy spirit, this was the purpose of spiritual power on earth: 1)preach the good news, 2)heal the brokenhearted, 3)deliverance to the captives, 4)recovering of sight to the blind, 5)liberty to the bruised and 6)finish the Lord's work. Of course, I had desired to leave years earlier...but, in small ways to help and guard others from abusive leadership, I stayed to relieve heavy burdens. The challenges and toil of remaining those last few years was nearly unbearable.....but I honestly believed that the Lord was preparing the way for me to exit on His timetable. To this day, we still have "friends" who are committed to twi. Absurd as it all seems, they remain in and abundantly share to this evil. Where I see INDOCTRINATION......they claim it's the word. What I label as SPIRITUAL ABUSE.....they see it as obedience. Where I see twi EVIL......they simply think there is nothing better and see church denominations ruled by seed men. Perhaps, as the scriptures state......."the ways of man are past finding out" <_< Hope this helps some. .

The world is full of predators and opportunists.......I get that. But....how a "christian organization" can somehow justify the demand for one's tithe (or 15%) and not extend a loving hand in service is unconscionable. Yeah, they teach the word with lip-service and smiles....and then, followers pay the monthly sunday teaching cassette fees and mag subscription. Field people run classes in their homes.....setup, refreshments, paper products, extra cleaning, lighting, etc. and then, send a 'thank you' card back to hq! Then.....splinter groups follow the pattern and exploit in the same manner? Is there any wonder why thousands and thousands headed for the exit doors? The lipstick stained styrofoam cup says it all.

Yeah.....wierwille and co. were simply OPPORTUNISTS. Doop in california........go there. Fug#t singing in parks....go there. A brush with celebrities..go there. Blacks want class.........go there. College campus excited....go there. Music used in outreach....go there.

Yeah...I get that, but NOT like the obscurity in a living room -- week after week, year after year. How often would those fellowships in Arkansas visit twi hq? How often do those in Mississippi get to a big mtg without even a Limb coordinator? Talk about hanging by a thread. <_<

geisha.....that can be answered in two words. DAVID KORESH

Of course, twi's ramblings about 'the remnant of God' are absurd. Heck, the 8 million congregants of these non-denominational megachurches could spout the same spewth if they were so inclined to make comparisons....after all, isn't 8 million a small remnant to a world population of 7 BILLION or so? To stick with twi's analogy......they are holding on by a THREAD.

You mean the ones with lipstick marks that were recycled?

But twi leadership ALWAYS SAYS... ....its the personal, intimate involvement in small numbers that is SO desirous. ....why would anyone want to go to a massive church with strangers and non-committed people? ....and, that's the way the first century church leaders did it.

I find it somewhat amusing to ponder days of yesteryear......when I felt that my involvement in a twig impacted the world more than those "church-going people." After all, we in 'the' ministry had 'the' word......emphasis on THE. Obscurity in a living room.....week after week, year after year....twi leadership taught that we were the family of God, and later, that we were the true household. From an active participation of some 24,000 believers in 1984 to about 2,300 active today....twi still insists they hold the keys to the prevailing word as 'the remnant' is visibly shredding away. But hey, it's still 'the word' whether no one believes it, right? So much for the faithful remnant. Obscurity in someone's living room is, indeed, becoming more obscure. Yet.....8 MILLION are attending those non-denominational megachurches today. When twi touted its soft, personal approach to teaching God's Word in a living room.....if that were true, then why are twi's numbers so pathetic? Where is that "living room of God's love" that twi spoke about in the late '70s? Where is that exhortation and comfort exhibited that the manifestations so frequently and repetitively expound? Has the touch of the 'Master's Hand' been replaced by a swift kick in the a$$ with a steel-toed boot? In fact, spiritual abuse in private is more lethal than massive gatherings some might contend, right? At a megachurch, if someone doesn't agree with the sermon and/or feels uncomfortable with his surroundings then a side exit is easy to find. Contrast that with getting up and walking out in a small living room setting. Do you think that the local branch guy is going to allow that? The desire to exit will immediately raise questions. The content of the meeting and the atmosphere of the mood will be halted in an instant. Whether one is seated in a small living room in Tennessee or a megachurch in Dallas.....the individual has chosen the reasons. Obscurity in a living room or uniquely poised in a megachurch....God is the One who looks on the heart. For twi to pontificate themselves as the true household is outright laughable to me as they spiral down the drain. While noticeably, the megachurch scene is a growing hub of worship, learning and hug-filled involvement. Obscurity in numbers? The jury may still be out on this, but by most accounts....twi is on the way out. Obscurity in a living room.....leaves little room for living. <_< .

'The Word' is.......Love, Sex and Rock-n-Roll of Ages.

"The Word" was this all-consuming, nebulous, mumbo-jumbo of wayspeak wherein twi attempted to usurp the christian mantle. But really, what should we have expected from an unchecked and unaccountable narcissist? After all, the credibility factor of twi was right there in front of us when we looked at the "trustees"........wierwille's brother, harry, and quiet supporter, ermal. Wierwille was in his childhood world....and no one, really, was a peer. His 'revelations' had no witnesses....his India-fame stories had no challengers. His plagairist research, closely-guarded from public scrutiny, had little opposition. And, unrestrained....wierwille simply waxed worse and worse each year. More booze. More lying. More sexual predation. Even to this day, wierwille defenders come forward to rationalize his personal life by saying.....THEY DON'T CARE -- HE TAUGHT THE WORD. The indoctrination, for them, is complete. Brain shuts down. Scriptures irrelevant. Case closed. Ideology or Idolatry? For them, wierwille is synonymous with 'the word.'

Yeah......politics and money and oppressive agendas. Anyone paying attention to CLIMATEGATE the past two years knows this. Climategate - Click Here