skyrider

Wackoville in wierwille-ville. Stringing chairs, mowing grass, breathmints in podium dish, climbing rocks, etc.......TO BUILD SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP. Geez Louise......wasn't there something in pfal scoffing the proper placement of candles on the altar??? And then... wierwille goes out and indoctrinates a legion of followers in this crap! Really....it's almost like someone bewitched us into idiot servitude. No wonder when people exit twi......few ever care to admit their involvement with this cult. At least, being anonymous......it's not so embarrassing to discuss. And......don't get me started on all those crappy kids songs!

Well, maybe.......once-committed wayers are now MLM distributors who see prospective customers. You know....the amway-types, vitamen-ites, energy-drinkers, colon-cleansers, pooper-scoopers, etc. Lots of folks are looking for another way to supplement incomes these days....and have connections with church groups or cult friends. Forgive me for such cynicism......just seemed like "true christianity" was hardly a focus of twi and now......I suspect, other underlying agendas are being played again on a more subtle level.

OMG.....really? What the heck are they thinking? It's not like we were involved in some tribal religion that needs passed down to the next generation.......er, was it?

I've got a confession to make.... On my interim year at hq.....I was assigned to oversee the responsibility of stringing chairs in the BRC. Thus, it was my household duty after supper to oversee each corps group with stringing chairs and setting up top-floor BRC before the next meeting. So, for a couple of weeks.... the supply box would come out and the chairs would be strung in perfect rows. Well......it didn't take long before I saw this nifty short-cut. Since these chairs had been placed in, basically, the same position for years......we would shut off the overhead lights and use the 'lover lights' only because then, the carpet showed the indentations more clearly. Voila! No more string was needed. Seriously.....we had straight rows and BRC set-up accomplished in about 12 minutes. The inrez corps loved me for it.....as we 'outsmarted' the taskmasters and went about our merry way. It was our own little secret. A secret that, until today.........I don't think I've ever confessed. .

Figuratively speaking.......wierwille dug his own grave. My respect for him could hardly get much lower. <_<

Yeah.....I knew you guys understood. Just wanted to state it plainly for others who might be passing thru. Amazing to step back and see how twi's "little policies" ALWAYS put them in charge of overseeing activities in the guise of "raising up others." All that stringing chairs crap........and wierwille would walk thru the brc each sunday at 4pm, an hour before the service to spiritually oversee everything......WHAT A LOAD OF BULLPOOKIE. Wierwille instituted a whole system that touted menial labor as "pillars to attention to detail and later, spiritual leadership." Everything from cleaning toilets to mowing grass to breaking breath mints and placing them correctly at the podium. And, having corps trained in this pathetic servitude AND spiritual partners writing checks of support......and offshoot leaders implanting the same crapola......who's gonna stop the pain? I wonder if wierwille spent time hand-digging his Dad's grave? <_<

waysider/oldskool......the grass is NOT the big issue here. Yes, it's part of the messaging, but there is a manipulation factor in play. Wierwille WANTED these graves dug by hand.... ...1)staff/corps were emotionally/physically involved during the digging ...2)revered respect for trustee lives was handled at lunch microphone ...3)digging graves by hand IMPLANTED vivid imagery and loyal commitment ...4)cheap labor was used and, with Ermal's grave-digging, it was finished around sunset The double-standard for trustees vs others shows the wide chasm between THEM....and others. And, how many were simply cremated with ashes in the way woods.....or elsewhere? <_<

Well, maybe not 'from the start'.....but at least by Advanced Class '79. Some of us participated in this 'carrying the torch of God's Word' run from Rome City Indiana Campus to Athens, Ohio....signifying, of sorts, a ritual of a runner carrying the torch to light the Olympic Cauldron. Why were we involved in a ritual that traces its heritage back to ancient games and Greek deities? Had anyone taken the time to research the religious rituals of the ancient olympics? Afterall, you'd think that a biblical research group would do in-depth study on this, wouldn't they? Or, was this a thinly-veiled attempt to start moving twi-terminology into the spiritual athletes category? Or, was this a publicity stunt to rally attention of communities and highway patrol alike that twi was a growing movement to be recognized? Maybe....it was all of the above? Publically.....wierwille desired that his way ministry be spotlighted as a higher elevation of christianity. Privately......wierwille secretly worshipped at the altar of vanity where his name would be elevated on high.

WW......I went back and read your post regarding the way: living in wonderland and the references to "pinned him down" and "backed him up against the wall" and "wrapped around his little finger" and "she had no interest in talking to the church group....she wanted to talk to vpw"....etc. First of all, I have made it plainly clear since my WayDale postings (starting about April 1999)..... ...wierwille was first and foremost the ilk and cancer of the way ministry. His life, behavior, habits, manipulations, predations, abuses, toxic teachings, etc. were the inevitable demise of twi. Etc. Etc. That being said.....I do not believe that wierwille had inappropriate contact with those women. Perhaps, I have this high regard for RRkr as this missionary woman who "went to hell's gate" to persuade wierwille that he needed the Lord....and "asking forgiveness at the altar of God's love" was a starting point. All of wierwille's terminology of "pinned against the wall" was figuratively speaking of a man who was convicted of irrefutable truth while, his inner soul, was scratching and clawing from its release? Also, as a missionary.....I don't find it unusual for RRkr to desire one-on-one contact, rather than in a church setting. To me, that simply shows that she was fixated on wierwille's personal conviction, to go to the very depths of his soul.....as her lord and savior had done for her. Concerning DrEEHggns......I tend to believe that wierwille embellished this story for name-dropping purposes. Here, a "successful" medical doctor wanted to know what wierwille had learned? Wasn't she, at least, 10 years his senior? It added credibility to his foundational class -- to attact business/professional people and by the time vpw filmed in 1967, the "story" was exaggerated five-fold, or more? Like OldSkool stated in so many words......there is just SO MUCH OTHER STUFF REGARDING WIERWILLE......in my opinion, these two women should not be included in the same sentence with wierwille's predation. That is simply my reserved opinion until I hear more on the subject. And.....having started this thread, I wanted to specifically address this since it veered this direction.

OldSkool.......yeah, I am in full agreement with you on this. First of all, I find it ironic how much wierwille's "personal stories" are retained in vivid memory from our twi-days. Were these stories even true? Did this woman call vpw night after night, insisting that she deeply desired "What did God teach you today from his word?" Night after night, week after week......really? After all these years, and after my intense search to uncover the India-itinerary facts that were embedded in Mrs. W's book.....I believe it is fairly safe to say that victor paul wierwille would embellish and exaggerate catching a fish in the wierwille pond. Secondly, my personal opinion is that DrEEhggns [and Rosal#nd R#nker, as well] were not sexually involved with wierwille during these "private" times. Having started this thread, and it veered from "insecurity" to wierwille's low-esteem and Hggns, supposedly, confronting vpw to stand naked in front of a mirror......still, to me, doesn't implicate these two women on an intimate level with wierwille. Certainly, there is some wording like "pinned against the wall" that does lend itself to double-meanings, etc...but in thoughtful perspective, I hold reasonable doubt of its happenings. And, why would I find it strange for a medical doctor to challenge wierwille on a field that she had given her life and oath.....the human body? Sometimes, in our back-n-forth postings....I have been known to jab back with a post or sarcastic comment. But I just wanted to be perfectly clear about this, and I'm not totally sure why.....I believe that RRkr & DrHggns maintained proper boundaries regarding wierwille, and moved on. Knowing wierwille's ilk to the extent that most of us do....still doesn't mean that it soiled these two women's character or encroached personal boundaries. All the darkness in a room cannot extinguish the flame of a little candle. Manipulation has its greatest effect in: 1)extended periods of time, 2)extended isolation or privacy, 3)no proper or legal recourse That is why I believe that staff positions and the corps program were fertile soil for manipulation of one's consent. .

In wierwille's corps, there was NO advancement beyond his constraints. In wierwille's clergy, there was NO advancement beyond his constraints. As corps AND clergy, I experienced his "equality of norms" amongst these groupings. And further, all that "apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher" lip-service had a two-pronged ploy: 1)it gave public credibility to a "growing" christian movement, and 2)it provided higher levels of service. Yet, at no time.....do I recall senior clergy, or whoever, publically recognized as such. Wouldn't wierwille, this man of god of the universe, have understudies of ministries to support him? The message was clear......the "equality of servitude" amounted to a nebulous pool of corps grads who spent years, if not decades, in limbo. Even to this day, more corps grads have FINALLY giving up. It doesn't matter how much one achieves......the goal posts are moved further away. Equality of outcome and results is never achieved. Even amongst the corps.....imo, many of the self-motivated were the first to leave, because of the system. My talks with Rev. St#ve S@nn, 4th corps, took a while to sink it....but it did take hold. He had much higher aspirations than wierwille's pseudo-caste system and, within months, I rarely spoke to him again. Of course, there are probably several more hundred ways to describe my twi experience......"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." seems kinda apropo at the moment.

Taught to follow corrupt leaders is harsh reality....and needs A HARSH ANALOGY Perhaps.....a better analogy than "asleep" would be YOU WERE ON FIRE -- When flames are burning and you're "on fire"......STOP, DROP, and ROLL. STOP ...... what you are doing DROP ...... from all participation ROLL ...... away and out the door

Rocky......I would place "fairness" in the same category as "equality." Most would agree that "fair rules" are the catalyst of good competition. The opportunity to fair play is what many coin as "a level playing field".....neither opponent has a tilted advantage. All sports follows these standard rules of fair play.....gymnastics, boxing, golf, basketball, football, etc.....hence, sports enthusiasts around the world are captivated by the greatest "reality shows" that play out in real time right before their eyes. "Fairness" or "equality" are also played out on the borders and shores of America.....as immigrants pour in to this country that is based on "the rule of law." The promised land of America is one where everyone has a shot at upward mobility. If you work hard, if you have an idea, if you provide a service that exceeds all others.....you can make it in America. Fairness or equality of OUTCOME can never be achieved. Hypothetically, even if two sons inherited five million each from their parents' trust.....would THAT instill EQUAL outcome, EQUAL homes, EQUAL lifestyles? Of course not. The very first day that each gained access to their inheritance, thousands of decisions would trigger the eventual outcome. Even identical twins, years later, would have diverse outcomes. If society were to dictate FAIRNESS EQUALITY......the misery index for all would skyrocket. The "makers" would be forced to give to the "takers".....the employers to the employees......and in rivers of "drunken insanity" society would be turned on its head. Why would the "pigs on animal farm" be qualified as "dispensers of equality?" When the leaders party and vacation.....why can't everyone party and vacation all the time? In sports, if the fairness doctrine takes root......every kid gets a medal. Thus, to be "fair or equal".....every NFL player, coach and staff member receives a Super Bowl Ring.

waysider......yeah, something like that. So....postpone your college education and interrupt the student loan process.....for THIS? Maybe it sounds nifty for a year or so......THEN what? That's the problem. And, what about career advancement? Even steady jobs are growing more scarce. They hold SOLE DISCRETION to kick you out overnight.....can't you just feel the love?

Or.....whistle a song or sing a tune. Whenever I feel afraid, I hold my head erect, And whistle a happy tune, So, no one will suspect .....I'm afraid. While shivering in my shoes, I strike a careless pose, And whistle a happy tune So, no one even knows ....I'm afraid. :)

Equality of opportunity and upward mobility is a good thing. Equality of outcome and results is a bad thing. IMO.....twi was devised to perpetuate a caste system of "equality".....not individual freedoms in christ. The corps/non-corps issue became a major factor in leadership assignments, rather than a merit-based analysis. Why? Because the corps was sanctioned by wierwille to be better spiritual leaders....ie "class-based equality." Yet, I would contend that there were MANY qualified and able men and women who never desired to go corps. Good, solid non-corps leaders were unilaterally deemed unfit. At headquarters, new corps graduates were systematically replacing the elder staff after August 1978. Were these new hires and assignments based on merit? Or, did it become acceptable that corps-trained equaled obedience....which equaled "more spiritual?" It always struck me odd that pfal accentuated this unique holy spirit within and that each person manifesting speaking in tongues would be uniquely individual. YET.....by the time I took the advanced class, individuality was a taboo. Now, the 16 keys to walking by the spirit were to be heeded. In fact, wierwille was strikingly adamant to discourage individuality and/or seeking signs....when, in fact, he claimed a sign from God in his "snow-on-gas-pumps-revelation." In hindsight, I'd say that the advanced class put more emphasis on spiritual caution and conformity than it did on spiritual growth and walking with God. But, to me.....the most alarming aspect of equality-based outcome in twi was the corps program. With each passing year, the numbers swelled with hundreds more in this nebulous pool of conformity. Twi's trustees classified corps grads as spiritual leaders.....which, they interpreted as ready and willing to obey the trustees. This "equality of servitude" gave the trustees untold powers to dictate a corps grad's life.......marriage, career, mortgage, children, hobbies, habits, drinking, smoking, appearance, etc. extending to even those who, years later, were NOT on twi payroll. The "equality of being ready to serve" enervated the powers of one's mind and suppressed all activity towards advancement in life. Society as a whole faces the equality issue. Public education, grades K-12, give standard access to education.....but that doesn't extrapolate into the same outcome of income, housing, or quality of life. No society can dictate outcome of equality---not even in socialism is this true. In a free society, and a free-market system, advancement should be merit-based....and then, from generation to generation, upward mobility is prized and honored. Where would today's sports be with equality of OUTCOME standards? Who would desire to go to an NFL game knowing that there would be a standardized OUTCOME? Ridiculous, isn't it? Equality of standard rules.....[eleven men per team, same number of timeouts, goal posts with same standard dimensions, playing field, etc].....YES. But to have equality of outcome? Absurd. .

For years, I've endeavored to define my twi experience.....specifically, to warn of cautionary signposts that led me down a road and entrapped me in conformed misery and dispair. The more I learn, the more I see how subtle nuances in youth, sociology and psychology blended this utopian thought pattern of desiring harmony and equality. In a perfect world, we would strive for harmony and equality.....I'd like to teach the world to sing in per-fect harmony (remember the song?). Post-vietnam war era, counter-revolution, commune-style living, cultural diversity, coca-cola commercials, etc......enter pfal class. Society was awash with a cultural movement and the pfal class was the wave at high tide. The 5th Session of PFAL resounded christian equality in hand-to-hand harmony as the truth of "Christ-in-you, the hope of glory" washed over my searching soul. Those days are long past.....as the doctrine of equality served its purpose. I have since read...."In revolutions where equality is the enthroned idol -- in the French, Russian, Chinese, and Cuban revolutions -- the dispossessions of the old regime was often a merciless affair. Political and propertied classes, priests and poets, were sent to the guillotine, the Lubianka, the gallows, the firing squad, or the labor camp. And as the old order went off to jails, exile, and graves, the revolutionary elite, uglier and more brutal than those they displaced, moved into the palaces, mansions, and dachas." And further....George Orwells' Animal Farm got it right. The revolution rises on the slogan, "All animals are equal." But once power is attained, the pigs move up into the farmhouse and the slogan is amended to read, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." The revolution to establish equality for all invariably ends up establishing the dictatorship of the few. The Way Ministry was like that......equality for all, in their proper rankings. Each caste level had "equality" and was treated as such. In the early stages, the advanced class was "the one" to aspire to for spiritual maturity. This new equality came with a new nametag and "a meeting with Dr. Wierwille at the roa" status that others didn't garner. But then, the corps status gave another equality....amongst the ranks. All received distinction, all without exception.....with equal corps status. Same with the clergy....another higher ranking But that didn't put us in the "farmhouse with the pigs." They were more equal than us. The gospel of equality was nothing more than a ploy. The pfal class was in "perfect harmony" in the early '70s. And, even further.....it was an OLD ploy well-documented in Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America in two volumes, in 1835 and 1840. He had seen through egalitarianism to the drive for power that lay behind it -- "The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex, is simplified, and reduced....to a single principle." And, when offshoots create settings for "the good old days of twi"........the trap is set, again.

Yep!.....that's right. Hence, the exodus from twi. When many were coming of age that ONE'S OWN FAMILY MATTERED.....kids, school, activities, pictures, awards, memories, family vacations, etc.....the pushback began in earnest. Nothing like a case of reality to smack one upside the head. The last ten years of wierwille's narcisstic life.....he was trying to establish a wierwille legacy. When Harry died in 1977, the following 1978 March 17th "Burn the Chaff Day" was renamed to "Uncle Harry Day" (iirc). With each passing year......I more clearly see that it had NOTHING to do with christianity. The double-standard of elitism....."Good for thee, but not for me".....is the message. Wierwille preached this supposed scripture-centered life, yet he was striving with every ounce of strength to establish a wierwille-centered legacy.

I should have known from the start......Christianity was NOT the main focus. Although "Word Over the World Ambassadors" did have a pseudo-christian affinity to it, even that was ground into the dust as Way Disciples became the new and improved outreach program in the early '90s. Way Productions Way Corps Way Builders Way Publications Way Homes It seemed like scripture was simply a springboard from which to launch WAY-better methods in today's world. Not only was wierwille "improving" the works of other men's research......wierwille was improving scriptural content in Way Publications. And, WAY corps would be this elite, marching force against evil, because they were being schooled in THE WAY's truth and life.....weren't they? Way Productions carried the music, Way Builders carried the tools, Way Publications carried the message......"We are the Way-bots, mighty mighty Way-bots!" We were the in-crowd.....holding exclusive "non-membership" membership. A spiritual elite buyers club that gave us access to teachings, events, classes, programs.....and access to guru-like wisdom of the ages. Why wouldn't everyone want to belong? Way Homes became a field experiment of way-centered living. Like-minded believers under one roof contributing to a general fund, sharing meals, sharing responsibilities, sharing burdens......what's not to like? In fact, some touted it as preparation for going WOW or Way Corps. One was already being groomed for The Way things were going to be. Holidays were renamed year after year. Easter Sunday became Resurrection Sunday. Merry Christmas became Happy Household Holiday. Even Halloween wasn't totally disregarded......but became "Bless and Treat." So, holidays in wayworld became quasi-holidays where traditional meaning was sidetracked on The Way to something else. After acquiring the Emporia campus, one of the first orders of business was the removal of the cross on the chapel. Sure, I can understand how twi's messaging wanted to elevate the resurrection of Jesus Christ as a central tenet to their doctrine, but was it necessary to remove the chapel cross to do that? In hindsight, it has become clear what the WAY corps learned from the WAY college and WAY publications.....and were sent out to teach WAY believers. No crosses, no problem......we were The Way.

Very well stated.......thanks. Gee, with twi.....besides believing = receiving in formulaic fashion, even quoting scripture became monotone mindnumbing. That special Father/son relationship in Christianity was........ummm, "absent." <_<

OldSkool.....was Mrs. buried next to vp?

When Ermal died in July 1980 (?)......the service was low key and respectful. The gravesite, in the Garden of Living Waters, was the east side of the fountain.....harry's was on the west side. From what I remember, even in death...and after vpw's death.....harry would be positioned to wierwille's right and ermal on the left. Wierwille's grave was elevated at the top spot of the fountain area. I guess 'spiritual protocol' mattered....even in death. Ermal's grave was dug by hand.....no machinery involved. Out of respect, wierwille assigned Monty R@y H0bbs to have way builders and others take shifts in digging. I was the last person to dig.....and the last person out.

Yeah....that's right. And, didn't JAL's dad, Lynn Sr. who worked at Eli Lilly, help "donate" the Indiana Limb Home to twi? I know its different in a way......but still, twi was so quick to cut ties when JAL spoke out in 1987. Wierwille and co. were a bunch of deceivers and money-grabbers!

I agree with this statement. The problem with twi's approach........CHERRY-PICKING verses to deceive their intentions.

BUT.......the wierwille indoctrination camp was not going to go down without a fight! After wierwille's death in May 1985, some were plotting its comeback....as beneficiaries, indeed. Enter Chris Geer --- 1986. The basic premise of this POP paper was that the trustees and U.S. corps had FORSAKEN "the man of God".....and were no longer in lockstep. Geer wanted to RE-INSTITUTE the wierwille indoctrination....."the ministry of Dr. Wierwille" was being neglected and dismissed. And further, Geer had been given "the last will and testament" by wierwille when he came to Gartmore prior to his death. The "reincarnated claims of I've got the answers!" was, once again, standing before corps and clergy......and the question was, "Will they fall for it again?" Yep!.....scores of clergy later flew to Gartmore to sit at the feet of chris geer. Geer claimed that he had the Wierwille mantle. Martindale claimed that he had the Wierwille mantle. Today, Rosalie is running with the Wierwille mantle. The Wierwillian Utopia DIED 30 years ago......yet, cult offshoots romance a utopia on earth! The scriptures debunk any and all concepts of such babel-ings from genesis to revelation. That which was....will continue to be, until it stops!