skyrider

I kinda doubt that we ALL can agree about those "leadership training programs being oppressive/repressive." The fellow-laborer program that you, waysider, experienced was horrendously oppressive. Same with my corps experience. Yet, some posters try to tell us what they think "we all" experienced or didn't experience. And, especially when some poster left the inresidence corps program and struck out on his own. Perhaps, he won't mind if you call it oppressive/repressive.....but don't you dare speak of it as "socialism." You see, he has a "dog in that fight" with his political website and democratic leanings. It's got to be called according to his terms. Like the ongoing debate......it's a TAX says the supreme court on healthcare law. Nope, it's a penalty or mandate says the democratic party. Yet, the highest court in the land constitutionally labeled it a TAX.

Whatever you say, rocky. And yeah......I've visited your political/democratic/socialist/one-sided website. <_<

An organization masquerading as a "christian group" that does NOT care about people. Any lurkers out there getting this?

dabobbada....yeah, roa cars stuck in the mud. And, people leaving all sorts of tents, camping gear, etc. on the roa grounds, kept in the warehouse for three months as "lost and found"......much, of which, was rarily claimed. Stewardship? hahaha No wonder martindale was more than happy to cancel wierwille's roa program. But then again......today's twi is drying up on the vine. With all the roa foibles, it sparked a nostagic pilgrimage to twi's hq each year that no longer exists. Wierwille knew how to sell the snake oil.

A 6th corps grad borrowed my car to head up to Lima, OH. On the way back, he ran it out of gas and LEFT IT. And, to make matters worse.....he never told me. I had to go find him and ask about my car. What a hassle. Hours later, I had my car back. Gotta tell you.....it sure dampens the christian spirit of loaning my car for others to drive. <_<

waysider......everytime you share your experiences of fellow-laborers, that program was gruelingly oppressive. The aspect of "sharing" or confiscating one's car for the collective use of the group sucks (if it's YOUR car). Of course, WOWs did this as well. And, having others drive your car without insurance coverage is illegal, right? Yeah, obedience ruled the day. Amazing how subservient all twi's programs were.....and, of course, there are still those who never saw "the true belly of the beast." Some still defend "the things they learned in twi"....... <_< But, hey......with many, it matters not to me that we "agree to disagree." I ain't there no more. Today's decisions are, now, my decisions.......praise the Lord. :)

Ummm, yeah......I already said that. Really? So now....you know what ALL of us experienced in twi? <_< Mad? Not really. Just making an emphatic point about wierwille's cult/socialism. In wierwille's commune, when everyone is "paid on a need basis, guaranteeing basic needs to be met, staffers couldn't do any secular work or overtime to enhance their income, twi monitored the income salaries thru the PR department, all new "research" from research team was collectively wierwille's to proclaim and put his name on new publications, ownership was taught as unnecessary for staff/corps..... YES.....if it quacks like a duck, its socialism.

WOW....on a scale of 1-10 (with 10 as highest mark), twi couldn't hardly scratch out at #2 as far as cults are concerned. Look at Scientology HQ....Click Here

The question that comes to my mind is......"Who wants to give up their Sunday, travel say 125 miles (one-way), on a sweltering day, grab their dress clothes, change in the OSC bathrooms, walk over to the auditorium, sit thru a 90-minute boring presentation of announcements & teachings, visit for 15 minutes afterward, go change clothes, and drive back 125 miles TO FEEL PART OF THE TWI-COMMITMENT?"

Yeah......getting a job and keeping a job were two different things. After about three months, it became obvious who was serious about being a WOW and who were the free-loaders.

Yeah, when politics start to dictate everyday life.....it happens. <_< With regards to WOWs, twi assigned them....not me. Why should I pay extra for free-loaders? If twi would NOT uphold the standards of the WOW program (to stop the hemorraging of exits), then why should I be responsible to cover for twi's lack of principle? Not being able to find work is one thing. Refusing to go out and look for work is quite another.

Twinky....the term "socialism" has been evolving from century to century and is tweaked to mean different things to different people. But basicly....."Socialists hold that capitalism is an illegitimate economic system, since it largely serves the interests of the owners of capital and involves the exploitation of other economic classes. As such, they wish to replace it completely or at least make substantial modifications to it, in order to create a more just society that would guarantee a certain basic standard of living." Here in America.....the food stamp enrollees have jumped to 48 million, people stay on unemployment when certain entry-level job opportunities arise, and the entitlement society is fueling lazy, non-productive numbers in droves. Should I have to pay for the 25 year old who refuses to work? Should I have to provide for his livelihood while he plays on his computer all day? Why should wealth re-distribution be the new normal WHEN government officials hand out millions to their union buddies who, then, turn around and promote their elections? The cycle of corruption provides helping the government/union good-boy-club to the detriment of society. More people have been killed in gang-related and black-on-black crime in Chicago last year than our war in Afghanistan. Why is government and media silent on all this? Anyone who is paying attention knows that socialistic wealth redistribution is unfair and corrupt. Please excuse me for not having more favorable views of a utopian "social society." For many, the ways of man are evil. And, yes....I understand some of the downside of today's capitalism. If America had a flat-tax or fair tax system without all the corporate loopholes and lobbyists in Washington pushing favortism, then there would be a better level playing field for all. And, some of these fair-minded capitalists give major donations to charitable causes every year. The American dream is NOT owning your own home. The American dream is UPWARD mobility. I do NOT want a socialistic government that "guarantees" my social existence. I WANT a government that defends my rights as a free citizen to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I WANT a government that defends America, supports transportation and commerce, health issues, etc. and that elected officials are the servants OF THE PEOPLE. No kings. No monarchy. Elected servants. Thank the Lord for men like George Washington. .

Wierwille was lazy and heavily plagairized others.....all the while, narcisstically, claiming to have "worked 12 hours a day for years in researching the scriptures." He demanded rigid conformity from the youth who idolized his mogness. Anyone who ventured onward in worthy goals and endeavors was branded "worldly" for their quests of a better life of fullfillment. Twi realized that an independent, hard-working, person would "wander off the reservation" and, most likely, never return. Strong work ethics led to strong confidence......and twi was soon left in the dust. And, the 15% tithe of that individual and anyone else who he persuaded went away as well. Thus, wierwille's twi became controlling and stifling. Yes, it was the WORST of both worlds for the person not wanting an institutionalized version of life. Today, I laugh when reminded of wierwille's teachings about stewardship where he was preaching that "stewardship was better than ownership." He emphasized as his example of how, collectively, the corps/staff could walk thru the way woods and enjoy its beauty without having the burden of ownership. I guess his one-sided sermon made sense.....to him. If one followed his teaching, one would stay on staff.......never own, never invest, never build.......just follow in twi's little world of conformity. Oh, that's right.....MANY have done just that. But really, the vast majority didn't want to be fenced in. HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY.

Yeah, Twinky.......we'll just have to agree to disagree (on the socialism issue). Nothing quite like being on the WOW field and reprimanded by WOW Rovers for "making sure all in your wow family STAY on the wow field.....even though your wow brother is lazy and mooching off everyone since he couldn't keep a job. Cough up extra rent money that HE DOESN'T HAVE.....while he smokes two packs a day and likes to hit the bars at night. Etc. etc. Sure.....month after month after month support his free-loading, his lazy attitude, all the while he says that his wow family is "not loving" and should be helping him more! No thanks. Even wierwille's leaders pushed guilt to keep the numbers jacked up. I tend to find ALOT NOT RIGHT with "socialism." Now....when I say "rugged individualism" that does NOT mean that I want to live like some mountain man far away from civilization. On the contrary, I want to be involved in peoples' lives......to help them, to give where I can, etc. But, I do NOT want spiritual or governmental overlords who REDISTRIBUTE WEALTH giving to THEIR friends, associates and personal agendas while, at the same time, punishing certain race, creed or religion. American was founded on unalienable rights FROM GOD to every man, woman and child for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Notice: it's a pursuit, not a free-loading system. In my opinion.......twi had a socialism-trend in the WOWs, Way Homes and Way Corps. And......in the end, this sort of "socialism" will fail. In the words of Margaret Thatcher: "The problem with socialism is you run out of other people's money."

Yes......much easier to live and breathe. Staffers and corps have this meager living based on the condition of their obedience to twi. As long as they obey......their "master" adds more food to the dish. But, if and when, they refuse to "jump" then the abuse and scolding erupts in earnest. When wierwille hired Rhoda "on a needs-basis" he set the standard of twi's trajectory ---- SOCIALISM. Wow's and/or Way Homes set up a "family fund" and work responsibilities for the group ---- SOCIALISM. Give me RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM and private equity and ownership ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY

With July 4th....INDEPENDENCE DAY.....fast approaching, I am again reminded of the exodus account and "Let My People Go." Spiritually, mentally, psychologically, financially......no one wants common sense constraints put upon their lives. That's why moving to a position of STRENGTH is always the best decision one can make. I am SO THANKFUL to be free from twi's ensnaring doctrine!! Today's decisions are MY decisions.....and it feels good and proper to shoulder this responsibility. All of twi's fear-mongering of "leaving the household and the devil will get you" is far, far away in life's rearview mirror. In desperation, twi resorts to "greasespot by midnight" verbage to keep people from freedom in life, freedom to choose. But then, why should I be surprised? Twi's fear-mongering, yell-fests, doctrine-skewing, cherry-picking, abusive-rendering, manipulative-jockeying, organization was the brainchild of WIERWILLE. Twi is worshipping in vain and full of deadmens' bones. No longer do I have to answer to "a board" for my decisions. No longer do I have to move every third year to another city. No longer do I have to sit thru a "corps evaluation interview." No longer do I have to subscribe to repetitive, boring teachings. No longer do I have to give 15% of my income to their hellhole. I learned my lessons well.....I will NEVER submit to deceptive, spiritual overlords again. NEVER. Nor will I fall prey to "soft-cult" splinter groups. Some might like twi's institutionalized living......but I ain't one of them. Give me INDEPENDENCE any day of the week....and I'll take on the responsibility of it all. Thank the Lord for the Good Ole U.S. of A.

As the local, state, and federal bureaucracies grow.....more and more money, and wealth distribution, is needed to support government salaries, benefits and programs for the people. The middle class is squeezed to comply with all the taxes and controlling mechanisms in these "hidden" behemoths. Same with twi bureaucracy. Ever notice how all the "topdogs" were jumping onto twi's payroll? Why was wierwille's system uploaded to "climb the corporate ladder" so as NOT to be shuffled around every other year? Where staffers were NOT subjected to go witnessing or run classes? Where they did NOT give 15% of their income? "....in TWI there really is no middle class." Twi has no "middle" ANYTHING. <_<

You mean....guys like John Reynolds, Harve Plat!g, John Ruupp, etc.? Why, one might think that prophetess/cultess rosalie can't find someone who jumps to her every whim. sarc/ Just seems like "the good ole days of wierwillism" are gone forever. :biglaugh:

15% of your income 15% of every day to witnessing 15% of every day to help with classes 15% of every day to lift list

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, excie. Hugs to you. Celebrate it

Looks like "rock of ages: the movie" is a 75M dollar flop. Perhaps, only the ex-twi community will see the humor in it. Poetic justice? "Notably, poetic justice does not merely require that vice be punished and virtue rewarded, but also that logic triumph. If, for example, a character is dominated by greed for most of a romance or drama; he cannot become generous. The action of a play, poem, or fiction must obey the rules of logic as well as morality." Having Tom Cruise as a "50-year old rock star" doesn't pass the reality bar. Reminiscing twi's "rock of ages" and wierwille's play-acting........ditto. <_<

Thanks for your post. All of it.....well spoken and so true! What wholesale deception from the get-go. The corps program and staff only pulled the curtain back further. To this day, it amazes me that I stayed so long even after seeing red flags after about 4 years. But hey.....that's what INDOCTRINATION does, isn't it? <_<

Steve......I, respectfully, disagree. Was I the only one in twi who endeavored to live the Scriptures? who wanted my mediator and lord to guide my way? who desired to praise the Lord God in song and worship? who was daily humbled that my savior saved a wretch like me? Yes, year after year.....wierwille's twi was shown to have been led astray. That is perfectly clear. But I remember those mid-70s when twi's songbook was filled with Jesus, and Christ, and "Lord I believe" songs. A time when prison outreach and hospital visits were more common. A time when helping neighbors and others was the christian way of doing things. Yet, twi ramped up into cult-mode as wierwille built his corps-cloning factory. Maybe it was just me.....living in an "alternate universe," but I have several times testified of answers to prayer, healings, and that still small voice of God on dozens of occasions. Specific results! And, it wasn't the formulaic methods of twi that I applied.....it was simply walking with God. Listening humbly. Having an open heart. Willing to help. Maybe that walking in love, walking in light, walking circumspectly (in Ephesians) is more pertinent that those "sixteen keys?" /sarc Without talking about wierwille and his filth.......I know what was in my heart those years. More than anything, I wanted to be a vessel for the Lord's purposes. I wanted to see HIM glorified. I desired with my whole being to submit as one of Christ's disciples and see how "loaves and fishes" could be multiplied to feed thousands. And, healing.....to pray with those who were burdened and witness God's healing power instantaneously! I know, I know.....why did I stay so long in twi? It's complicated. But, I do think that there were hundreds, if not thousands, like me who desired this to.......until the indoctrination of their wierwille-droning talking points drowned out the motives of one's heart. Maybe I am totally wrong on this. Guess it doesn't really matter now. Anyhoo.......this is off-topic, isn't it? :B)

BINGO The man learned the manipulative side.....wanting to be the man who signals to his minions with "a wink and a nod." He took pleasure in seeing his plebs jump at his commands and only emboldened him to greater narcisstic thresholds. In my opinion, with all of wierwille's flaws.....he could have instilled "a much greater legacy" had he seen AND unleashed the 1979/80 Word in Culture movement with God-inspired gifts from artist to orchestra to craftsman to writer. Believers with God-centered strength and inspiration could have been a tsunami in a "self-governing" twi. In contrast, the legalism and heavy-handed leaders demoralized and oppressed the populace. What could have been.........NEVER WAS. <_<

Well....I can't speak of whether VP had "some good thoughts" but what I would say is wierwille was an OPPORTUNIST. Since exiting twi and drawing back the curtain on wierwille's life......I haven't found any indication of him volunteering for missionary work, charitable work, homeless or prison outreach, etc. When wierwille went to India......he was propped in front of church groups, the Hindu convention, dignitaries by Dr. I.S. Williams. It was Williams who OPENED all the doors for wierwille to speak. And, when wierwille left India he "designated" Williams to continue to oversee his (vp's) work.....of which, Williams did NOT accept. Wierwille plagairized wholesale from his mentors and dropped names liberally....to climb upward. After finally, getting off the Van Wert Church payroll (August, 1957).....wierwille started making arrangements to get back to his dad's farm. Twi was built on the backs of thousands of youth who NO LONGER want anything to do with it. Whether one wants to call it a MLM scam or a religious cult......twi was NOT what it purported to be.