skyrider

Yeah....it makes me shudder thinking how John Rupp and wife used to do this walk-thru stuff in Texas. One can always 'thank' wierwille for this anal criticizing......as he taught the corps how he'd always do a 4pm walk-thru of the BRC to check it out. .

March 9th birthday? Whatever...... So Rosie.....your 74th birthday, right? Perhaps, you should take a cue from Pope Emeritus Benedict.......and retire. You could stay "hidden from the world" and go sailing on Lake St. Marys or something.

BUMP On this March 1, 2013.......just wanted to say 'hi' to Rosa-lie. Isn't her birthday coming up shortly? Anyhoo.......there sure was ALOT of great threads in 2012. Some twi would surely like to see buried.

John.....you STILL contend to spew twi's propagandist-version of relevance of the 70s and 80s. For the record.... 1) Wierwille did NOT corner the market of "the written word of God has authority." 2) The list of preachers and ministers heralding THE WRITTEN WORD is exhaustive. 3) The trinity doctrine in many churches has FAR LESS RELEVANCE than you spout over and over again. 4) Twi was not slated as a cult simply because of its non-trinity stance. Generally, I refuse to contest your posts, because of your twisted pro-wierwille stance. But today......just decided that your "facts" needed to be corrected. Most people here know that I was corps, staff, clergy. Besides.....I spent 10 days in a deprogramming episode. The "cult" issue ran far, far broader than your assertion of the trinity. Sleep deprivation, mind-control, isolation, restricted communication, etc. were factors and concerns that were alarming parents, friends and family. .

Yeah......perhaps, E. Stanley Jones. To me, it matters not when hundreds upon hundreds of christian leaders borrow, or utilize, or adopt, or adapt programs, seminars, classes and sermons from another previous source. What wierwille did was to plunder the works of others and promulgate his podium to a whole new level........ie mog-worship. According to twi-doctrine......wierwille was THE 'man of God' for the whole world. The scam dripped of idolatry. Even today, amongst a mountain of refuting evidence.......twi continues onward with this pathetic deception.

For years, these five corps *principles* were known, and listed in the corps brochure, as objectives. I highly suspect that wierwille plagairized and tweeked them from someone or seminar that he attended. Perhaps, Glenn Clark and Camps Farthest Out......or similar. It should be painfully obvious, by now........these *corps principles* were NOT originated by wierwille. He copied and tweeked radio broadcasts, sermons, pamphlets, poems, songs, programs, classes and books. Wierwille was a huckster.

In this thread.......who is talking about editors, literary agents, or writing a book? Could it be that you are *projecting* that every post of mine needs candid feedback to fine-tune my story and writing skills for a marketable book? Gee, I'm starting to feel kinda queezy posting on threads with someone following me around and micromanaging my every word.

Yeah......this thread took a detour when Raf commented that "he couldn't fathom the damage done" by staying so long in twi and I countered by expounding on other areas and groups who suppress liberties. If the scriptures are true.......the bigger picture is that principalities, powers and rulers of darkness are in the POWER STRUCTURES in this world and inflict suppression and bondage whenever possible. Guess I didn't realize that the "projection police" are roaming thru GSC these days.

......"you have READ or HEARD"..... WOW.....Rocky. Really? I grew up on a farm......my brother STILL farms.....I've helped my brother with farming.....and explain heavy-handed regulations in farming JUST LIKE I SAW IN TWI......and you say I'm projecting what I've READ or HEARD? Gee, Rocky.....seems like you follow me around on every thread I start and attack me. <_<

My story is central to my 24-year involvement with twi. Wierwille's central authority and projection of mogship came crashing down with a mighty THUD. The heavy-handedness squelched the liberties of the individual. Aside from my twi-tenure, my life and business relations are interconnected with hundreds. My brother who still farms is challenged by the overbearing regulations and paperwork of six to eight different governmental agencies. Some of these regulations are senseless and disgruntled farmers are attending meetings to stifle the onslaught of regulations. The farmers are going bankrupt and corporate farming is the new norm. Twi was the microcosm laboratory where I vividly experienced the dysfunction of central-hq authority. Life and business is the macrocosm wherein the encroachment of top-down authority that I NOW SEE. Life and living is stifled when that happens.

What some might characterize as "blurring the lines".......I see as CONNECTING THE DOTS. The scriptures give us a vast array of wrestling against principalities, against powers, against rulers of darkness. Yes, twi was a subculture of oppressiveness and isolation......but these structures are found far and wide. During twi's apex, in 1984........nearly 190 clergy were assigned to hq. WHY? Is the concentration of authority and power infinitely essential for wrestling the liberties away from the individual? If wierwille was truly invested in "word over the world"......why the conglomeration of clergy at hq under wierwille's watch? Was twi a microcosm of "principalities, powers and rulers of darkness" that is seen the world over? The financial powers? The business world? The Hollywood insiders? The fashion world? The media monopolies? And, no.......I realize that such broadstrokes could never be addressed in a book without seeming to be "all over the place" but its also clear that Jesus warned to beware of the leaven of Pharisees and Herod. The bandwidth of beware is NOT compartmentalized to a Nazarene subculture. Can one's story focus on one's life experiences AND carry the message of an OVER-riding element than encompasses all? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts ABSOLUTELY. If a subculture of authoritarian power leads to diminished individual liberty, what happens if the macrocosm of society falls into diminished and suppressed liberties?

I'm "lucky" too.......I kept thinking and processing information EVEN THOUGH I STAYED IN TOO LONG. With regards to *damage that was done*......everyone has their story. But hey, such is life. In business, politics, religion, military, relationships, etc.....who hasn't ventured down a path that held regrets? Does anyone go thru life unscathed? And, really.......the longer I live and the more I read, oppressive governments and groups savage the liberties of others. Just recently, the cnn story of how the Pakistani Taliban are throwing acid in the faces of girls who desire education! Threats and fear to keep young women from advancing their lives, their educational paths, their careers, their dreams!! So, relatively speaking........to me, twi was a detour in my life. It altered my life. But no extensive damage. What continues to amaze me is how "believers" and splinter groups still fall for this pecking order. But many churches have the same gig. .

Yeah.....the rational road was detoured by spiritual boulevard. :B)

In 1978, wierwille's tone of ownership of "his" corps came in the derisive term COP OUTS. Sitting in those corps meetings, I had the gut sense that wierwille's twi had a major, structural flaw. Why was vpw name-calling? Why can't corps grads leave twi if they so desire? Why the heavy-handedness? Yet, others sitting around me didn't seem perplexed.......what gives? Was I being too judgemental? Was I not seeing it clearly? There it was in PLAIN SIGHT......and yet, there was no mounting dissent. So......I shelved this "concern" for another day. Red flags were clearly flying in 1978. Why aren't the clergy seeing this? Are they just a group of yes-men? Questions, questions........and I was a lowly inrez corps guy. Who was I to 'nitpick' the great mog of the universe for his choice of terms. Or, does "cop out" indicate something far more sinister and devious? The hidden parts of twi are now in plain sight.

Remember what wierwille stated for his reason that Craig Martindale was picked as twi's next prez? HE NEVER ASKED HOW HIGH TO JUMP....HE JUST JUMPED. Martindale was vp's choice for the mantle, because he always OBEYED the mogfot. That's riiiight. That's the criteria. When one peels away the corps "training" for leadership positions......one finds INDOCTRINATION, LOCKSTEP MENTALITY, SOLD-OUT COMMITMENT TO TWI, and GROOMING OF YES-MEN. And, who was ultimately responsible for the thrust and impact of the corps program? Wierwille. Wierwille devised a program that was anathema to "the ways of the Lord." Like oil and water never mix.....the corps program was oil to twi's machinery and did not mix with the water of life, the ways of the Lord. IMO.....twi has a strict, stealth "grooming process" that is constantly being monitored by twi's yes-men and inner circle. With incremental leadership positions and heavy-handedness, twi consistently picks and grooms their leaders of choice (even picks the wives, too). In a world of subtle rewarding the favored response, the jumping continues. By the time corps grads had reached the Region Coordinator position or Corps Coordinator position, the 'ways of the Lord' was synonymous with twi's ways. The pavlov's dog experiment illustrates this reflexive response quite well. In the end, wierwille's successor would ultimately need to be someone created in wierwille's image.

Yep, wierwille was the drivel driver of this ilk. If Martindale would have rejected vpw's hardline example, his little book could have been entitled "Don't Mistake VP For Me".........

In 1997, a twig coordinator in our state had heart complications and abruptly died. Her brother in Florida was on twi's "mark and avoid" list and Bob Moneyhands phoned and informed me of this information. In his words, this brother would NOT be allowed to attend his sister's funeral. As the limb coordinator, I was facing hurt and grieving over the loss of this precious woman......and now, this twi-dictate was staring me in the face. Bob Moneyhands, a top-tier clergyman in twi's hierarchy was telling me to uphold the mark/avoid policy in this situation. Really? Is that policy etched in stone? About an hour later........this brother, Chris, calls and forthrightly explains his situation. He admits to a few shortcomings and then, asks me if he could possibly attend his sister's funeral. My heart welled with compassion and I firmly said, "Yes, you are welcome to attend and call me when you arrive." He cried and thanked me as he hung up the phone. Preparations for the funeral were underway. My responsibility. Several days later, and after the funeral.......he thanked me again. Then, I invited him to come home with us for dinner and a night of warm friendship and love. Others were invited as well. I felt that it was my responsibility before God to comfort his grieving soul with all that was within me. With food, snacks, a movie, and prayerful concern....my wife and I did everything we could to minister to this deep loss we all felt. At the end of the evening, Chris cried and thanked us for caring so deeply. He left a changed man. .

Yeah.......Psalms 23 What does a shepherd do? 1) Focus and care for all the sheep's needs 2) Leads sheep to green pastures 3) Leads sheep to still waters (will not drink rushing stream) 4) Restores their soul day after day 5) Leads sheep in path of righteousness (sheep follow willingly) 6) Protects and guards against enemies 7) Shepherd equipped to anoint and heal wounds 8) If one went missing, the shepherd noticed 9) Temperment and behavior of sheep was primary focus 10) Day and night, the shepherd was watchful and concerned

Time and time again, wierwille's platitudes and drivel in pfal has been exposed. Yet, the damage continues.......some of wierwille's "clergy" from decades ago, continue to march to the beat of his cancerous-devil-spirit blatherings. Oh, it is so easy to pontificate from their lofty throne of vp-isms. Why can't these young gun pharisees..... 1) Undo the heavy burdens 2) Heal the broken-hearted 3) Set the captives free 4) Hug and uplift with compassion 5) Roll their sleeves up and help 6) Stop the devil-spirit nonsense 7) Speak the truth in love 8) Love with unconditional love A close friend of ours, in another state......is going thru challenging times. When she turned to this (cough, cough) clergyman who, to this day, embraces his wierwille ordination and teaching platform.....he gave her disturbing, devil-spirit counsel. The same-such blather of generic stuff where everything gives off something and "you need to sell your house, uproot your family and move away" nonsense. How convenient for him to sit in his warm office and relegate this phone correspondence. This type of "spiritual maturity" is the GARBAGE that wierwille fed us.......for decades. This is not a pastor, or shepherd, who cares for "the sheep." This IS a hireling........who works for the meager wages of self. With each passing year, I see the heartless display of wierwille's ordained men.......men who STILL promote his platitudes and teach and send out this crap. And, those who throw the possessed label around or devil spirit baloney WITH NO ACTION are the same as wierwille. FRAUDS. <_<

dabobbada......did I miss the sarcasm in this? I seriously doubt that wierwille ever 'used to pal around' with Oral Roberts and Billy Graham. Yeah, I know.....wierwille always was name-dropping to make himself look important and all. Mrs. Wierwille's book documents alot of men (and women) who helped vpw and/or spent time with him......neither Oral nor Billy are found in the pages of her book. Time and time again, wierwille was the wee little student at the seminar......and later boasted that he and Reverend So-and-so were working the word together and saw the same thing or some-such drivel.

Roasting rosie, donna and mis-directors...... In my youth, I took your classes and signed up for some programs......BUT that does not mean that *my life is YOURS TO TAKE* by any stretch of your deceiving agendas. You say you stand for biblical truth......and yet, scripture explicitly states that INDIVIDUALLY, each person is accountable for his or her life before God. If one is to follow your collective agenda of groupthink, then wouldn't it stand to reason that you COLLECTIVELY are laden with the sins of wierwille and his ilk? Twi cannot cherry-pick the 'whole of goodness' and dismiss the 'trainwreck of destruction' to objective thought. Twi has NEVER addressed the real reasons for the 1987 exodus and 2000 mini-exodus.

One could use the approach..... Here ya got a ministry that prides itself on attention to detail, and it... 1) Moves to the wierwille homestead on February 2, 1962...and even the groundhog didn't surface on this cold, blustery morning. 2) Wierwille has 14 years (1953-1967) to plan for the filming of pfal.......and the lighting burns his retinas, oops. 3) The corps program doesn't get off the ground the first year and is labeled the Zero Corps by the one who failed. 4) WOW Ambassadors are pinned when arriving "home"......yet, the homecoming wears thin when their money runs out. 5) Wierwille tells martindale to have lots of sex with others.....and the "thing" couldn't be contained, or zipped.

Will you be toasting a 'motorcoach merlot' with that sentiment?

For those who watch roast events.....where individuals and self-deprecation take center stage and turn the serious on its head, last night's Alfred E. Smith Annual Dinner was just that. And, in the spirit of charity.....it raises about $5 Million for Catholic charitable projects. In light of that, it reminded me how it is common to step back and laugh at ourselves and others' seriousness of positions. If you were given the opportunity, with twi's directors seated nearby, to stand at the microphone for five minutes, what zingers would you rattle off to openly display the absurdity of twi or your involvement in it? For me, here is a sample of a few that come to mind: 1) With twi touted as a biblical RESEARCH organization, I found it incredible that so few even knew if the department still existed. 2) Boastfully, twi portrays themselves as "international outreach".....yet, you have to be involved to get ahold of any of their books. 3) Silly me, I left college to participate in their classes and programs without realizing their founder had a mail-order doctorate. 4) Amazing how a ministry that prides itself on helping others initiates programs and mindsets that lead to lock-step, collective loyalty. 5) In the end, I found that after coming full circle.....my new starting point was to UNLEARN what this 'research' group had taught. Laughter IS a good medicine....to remedy the ill-will of twi's profound greatness (cough, cough). :B)

penworks.......thanks. As you well know, there are so many considerations in such an undertaking. How one approaches all these logistics are, seemingly, multi-layered. Yes, it would be my story.......but then, my wife (before we were married) had her story of involvement......of which, when married, gave me accumulative background understanding of plenty of other hypocrisies. For example: When my wife was inrez corps and hitch-hiked to TFI (Total Fitness Institute in California ---- the forerunner of LEAD)........her partner was Craig Martindale. When they got to a truckstop outside the city limits of Oklahoma City, she found a trucker who would give them a ride.....and, just then, Craig snagged a ride as well. In deciding what to do, Craig told her, "I'll take my ride and you take yours. I'll see you in California." Craig Martindale abandoned his hitch-hiking partner, a woman........and away he went. Years later, as Corps Director.....Martindale's policies for the corps was to NEVER abandon your partner!