rhino

Well that other group has their v2p2 way corps ... maybe he feels he needs to compete for market share of old wayfers. So he is retrenching back in the old "the wuhrd as we have not heard it since the first century" It just looks like more of the same to me ... but maybe moving a little closer to the old "we are Gawd's special chosen ones" thinking. So we still have all these splinters teaching the greatness of the one body ... but they all seem to think THEY are the special chosen ones within that one body. This could be a regular soap opera ... "As the Cult Turns" But maybe you are correct ... it could be a last gasp from the old CES body ...

That last bit was one big fat claim from the letter ... greatest Christian teaching since the first century But the subject and point from mstar was the obvious dichotomy of the claims of some great teaching ... and the fruits of those that led the corps by example, those that were trained up in The Way they should go by vp. Even John felt compelled in the letter (the subject, right?) to mention the bad stuff. But he tries to explain it away with ... As far as I can see, TWI was also about the most disparate dichotomy of good and evil in the history of Christianity. The Way, we were. If you once sat through PFAL, you heard the Word of God taught more accurately than the vast majority of Christians who have ever drawn breath. Now that is a tricky line ... good and evil are opposite ... a dichotomy is two opposing things usually ... and disparate means separate. So we have ... an opposition of opposite opposites ... not sure where that leaves us. What really is a disparate dichotomy, as opposed to your normal dichotomy? But if John sets the one against the other, then the TWI evil was evil as we have not known since the first century ... or more evil than the vast majority of Christians have known since the first century. How does that spring forth from the greatest teaching of Christianity? The only explanation is that the greatest teaching is NOT separate ... but actually imparts evil ... how else to explain the disparate dichotomy? But word games aside, how could the greatest teaching of Christianity spew out such bad behavior? I would expect at least "greatest Christian" behavior ... else what is the point of the teaching? (and yes dove, we are talking about the subject, the letter)

not sure what his current job is .. I just see what he is pushing ... he didn't separate the teaching very well when he was practicing his learned spiritual acumen in the basement as corps coordinator ... did he? so vic taught adultery was fine .. and john , while corps cord', acted as though adultery was fine ... when exactly did he learn to separate the teaching from the teacher? Or which teaching do you mean exactly? John was a satisfied customer I guess .. he was satisfied with every corps woman he bedded, per VP's teaching .. is that what you mean dove?

Congrats George ... glad any spiritual insight I poured on you in the day did not harm you too much, so you could retire successfully at such a young age ... If you are retired, why are you looking for another job? Shouldn't you dedicate yourself to more Green Lantern like endeavors? Anyway ... congrats on a presumably successful 26 years at DOW ... do we have any items we can thank you for? eg. What did you work on? ... Any products we know?

I'm not sure where the drug reference comes from ... is this inside info? Chemicals can really alter a person .. or maybe help them ... I see enough problems without claims that it is due to chemicals ... is that evident somehow that i am missing? Anyway ... the "I am special so the world is out to get me" syndrome is pretty classic ... I'd say more but THEY are listening and THEY want to silence my special knowledge of ALL things ... gotta go .. THEY are outside now ... please send MONEY ... (and keep this in your lockbox)

Wellll ... all great "movements" involve a lot of sheeet ... :) butt good point mstar ... and nice job of juxta possession ... there were certainly a lot of cocks crowing during those spiritual times in the (de)basement of that building at Emporia ... no wonder I didn't learn much there ... the corpse coordinators were too busy getting it on with all the willing corps trainees ... honorable 9th corp my arssse ... can we put that to a vote? edited to ask .. between donna and craig and john and pat ... how many corpse were screwed in the basement apartments there in that year of living in the flesh spirit? You can add Dave and Judy in uncle hairy if you want .. not sure about them ... The audacity for this person to claim to have any kind of ministry is mind boggling ... are people still buying this tripe? Sorry John ... but go get a real job ... go play basketball, do your comedy schtick ... anything but pretend to be a spiritual guru ... this is disgusting ...

Seems they want to inject themselves into the bigger Christian dogma competition scene to create more drama for their soap opera ... I guess for those that think that is what it is all about .. go ahead and give them more money ...

MONEY ... it's a drag ... keep your hand off my stash ... it is the rooooot of aaawwwll eeevil ... so they saaaay ... So the plagiarized stuff was the bible as we haven't had it since the first century? Good gawd ... The business of collecting bucks from ex twi folks is still going? I wonder if letters like that are valued in how much revenue they bring in ... are some still longing to "make life meaningful"? Those are great knives doojable :) ... but it is a disgrace for me to have been in this fellowship for those knives to have been associated with this rusty old dull doctrine

While some come here holding stronger feelings ... G-spot is telling the other side of the story. I don't think most here that left 20 years ago are hateful ... but do recognize the scam that was TWI. But really GS doesn't tell "the other side" as I see it ... TWI supporters tell the story of the facade ... G-spot exposes what the real structure was/is constructed of. Those that are supportive of TWI don't last long ... because they are delusional, and those delusions will meet with confrontation here. What could they have to offer on the topic of this website? WD and Oldies have discussed other subjects where I agree with them a little ... I feel nor hate toward them ... those that are still in TWI ... why would they come here? Some that did come here ... left TWI ... that makes this a site of deliverance, not hate. But TWI may hate that ...

Sounds like some good advice here ... my interpretation of the above ... Oakspear ... don't get sucked into any bondage from what others expect of you ... including God Bramble ... free of that stuff ... go out and enjoy life ... a hobby ... or lots of interests My3cents ... every case is unique, therapist with cult victim experience, avoid feeling forced excathedra ... don't jump onto a splinter group waysider ... old habits die hard ... learn to overcome trained responses Rhino ... listen to some of these that dealt with this successfully ... it will save you some time and effort and years. There is a whole world of fun stuff out there ... but also plenty that want to take advantage of good hearted people. edited to add ... for rascal ... karate ... for me .. a lot of sand volleyball ... sports are great, physical health is improved and the group playing together is fun as well as the building of another social group. We are mostly social animals and do best when involved with society. (instead of being isolated from it)

People pay big bucks to go to some shrink that tells them how to interpret what mommy and daddy did to them when they were four. It seems we can learn a lot by reviewing what led us to follow a "self possessed" man for 10 to 20 years ... and in review, there is much to be learned about ourselves and human nature in general. It was our youth, it was our own personal "demons", it was a lot of things ... maybe it was mommy and daddy's fault But the reflection and counseling here is cheap, and so are the drinks, and the company is as good as any bar I've hung out at ...

I like soccer ...

I don't know how you know what he realized ... It seems a simple separation as far as the court's involvement is concerned. There is NAMBLA ... the man boy love association ... they can believe what they want, but they can't legally act on their belief. The judge didn't make any statement about whether actions influence belief or vice versa. But rationalization and human nature indicate it is quite feasible/probable that vp's and lcm's desires influenced their doctrine ... eg. thinking that adultery was only in the spiritual realm, but was fine for MOG's in the physical. Or what about all the "abundant sharing" teaching? A desire for money leading to a teaching that "sharing" meant sending all the money to VP. He seldom/never saw fit to "share" in reverse with people with genuine needs in the "field". Bias is human nature and is prevalent in all thought processes, though denial is also present. But then I don't have the ability to read the judge's mind, so that is just my view.

True ... what a lughead ... But also craig was a nobody to most ... vp was "the man" and he had acquired a certain blind respect. But all I remember about lcm teachings was that he was loud ... I don't know that Craig saw the old freedom as weakness, but he was in charge of a sinking ship after POP, and there really was no solution except to disband or fully acknowledge all evils and resign. So rather than abandon ship, he required devotees that would work harder to bail him out. Many seemed so addicted that they just couldn't leave and "let the word die".

We supposedly moved into a service economy ... but I'm not sure just what that means. We can offer banking and technology, but that gets learned fairly quickly ... China doesn't seem to respect intellectual property anyway. It's mostly smoke and mirrors it seems, with our politicians selling us out. I like the little CFL's, as long as you know they have mercury in them in case you break them, no big deal. I bet most of them end up in regular landfills though. And how crazy to have a law making the regular incandescent bulbs illegal. It is a good video, and talks about more than the mercury aspect. As it is now, you aren't supposed to use the CFL's in sockets with a dimmer switch, so I suppose they will have to figure that out. I'm not sure what the law says about Christmas lights and a thousand other different types.

Ha ... that would be a fitting investment for TWI ... it runs on water ... which is transformed by an "energy generator". It must be a nuclear powered energy generator. Suitcase nuke power plants ... that's what we need. TWI ran on water ...well, they ran on the "believing" of people that believed in the water in the form of snow on the gas pumps. So that water generated millions ...

They should send it to ME to invest (for me) ... But if they still have gold ... that looks pretty safe now, but they didn't make much on it for 20 years. And they have property. I'm guessing they are still living off long term bonds somewhere ... if they piled them up in the early 80's .. they may be sitting pretty ... well, as pretty as old geezers can sit. But then all that government conspiracy stuff would have led them away from government securities ... Does anyone have a clue where they were invested?

My point was about you blaming Bush ... not blowing off the whole problem as lefty speak ... Even without 9/11, it would have been very unpopular for Bush to do what made most economic sense ... plus the powers that be (perhaps beyond the party politics) seemed to have something else in mind for US. I hardly see what has happened over the last 30 years as government leaving the markets alone. It is the fed's control of interest rates and money supply that has messed things up ... and turning our currency into a fiat currency ... no real backing. If Reaganomics pulled us out of anything .. that genie never got put back in the bottle ... Markets have not been allowed to correct, that is how we got the bubbles ... government intervention. The place where government HAS left the markets alone is where they should have been more involved ... regulation of banks or brokerages that were creating money out of thin air. Of course we know our politicians are bought and paid for ... but they seem content to watch US go over a cliff ... it seems they are content to take their bribes from other countries ... Well, Greenspan said war to save our oil source would be important to the economy. Iraq has the third highest amount of reserves in the world i think.Who would you rather have there drilling? We ARE pushing for the electric car and other alternatives, this has been a big deal for quite some time ... but tapping our own vast fossil fuel resources still makes more sense than just cutting ourselves off from the most competitive form of energy. Right now we are enriching our enemies around the globe ... but still no new drilling domestically ... that is the insanity that can laid at the feet of the Democrats.

Remember Clinton? He took the Nasdaq to 5100 or so ... a huge bubble ... Bush has done nothing to fix the easy money ways of the fed ... and presided over a huge real estate bubble. But if Bush or Clinton had been responsible in monetary policy ... the DOW might be at 7500 ... so it is a little strange to lay it all on Bush. Bubbles eventually pop .. and this bubble has been building for a long time. We may get a much needed correction ... The last real depression took place in the 1930s. The economy very nearly went over the edge again in the early ‘70s and again in the early ‘80s. Both times massive re-inflation of the currency papered the problems over (but at a cost). Meanwhile, most importantly, continuing technological innovation and increased savings (motivated by the fear of bad times) led to recovery. Since then we’ve had 25 years of what Herman Kahn predicted would be “The Long Boom.” .. the boom was financed largely by debt, which made everybody feel and act much wealthier than they really were. It’s as though you borrowed a million dollars and spent it all on wine, song and high living. For a while, you’d have a high standard of living and perhaps have a lot of fun. But eventually, when you either paid the money back with interest or were forced into bankruptcy, your standard of living would take a painful drop. The U.S., in particular, has been living far above its means, burning up its own capital and trillions more borrowed from abroad. And again ... do you really want to blame Bush and the oil companies for the price of oil? Why not blame Democrats for shutting out all new drilling ... wouldn't that make more sense? In response to skyrocketing gas prices, liberals say, practically in unison, "We can't drill our way out of this crisis." What does that mean? This is like telling a starving man, "You can't eat your way out of being hungry!" "You can't water your way out of drought!" "You can't sleep your way out of tiredness!" "You can't drink yourself out of dehydration!" Seriously, what does it mean? Finding more oil isn't going to increase the supply of oil? Obama says he is fine with oil prices going higher ... that is the left's solution for a long time ... make oil expensive to force alternatives. Liberals complain that -- as B. Hussein Obama put it -- there's "no way that allowing offshore drilling would lower gas prices right now. At best you are looking at five years or more down the road." This is as opposed to airplanes that run on woodchips, which should be up and running any moment now. But simple lefty speak is easy ... market down ... blame Bush. Oil up ... blame Bush. It is simple to be on the left.

I'm not sure what direction the thread is intended to go ... exactly. I see this bold part included by DWBH Similarly, a religious organization can be held liable for failing to protect its members from the sexual assaults of its employees. Byrd v Faber, 57 Ohio St.3d 56 (1991). The Court finds that Craig Martindale's sexual encounters with Mrs. Allen must be considered as conduct, rather than beliefs. The issue is whether or not the sexual relationship was consensual. The state has a compelling interest in preserving the peace, and that includes the prevention of sexual assaults. For the "more spiritual" ... it does make some sense that TWI used scripture for its own ends, so it is like the Devil using scripture ... always with some subtle greater context twist. A close examination would probably find the perverseness prevalent in practice had seeped into belief. VP seemed to be known to seek the "correct" doctrine/transcripts that would confirm what he believed the Bible must really mean to say, and he had veto power over the research teams, as Schoenheit found out. VP's "new light" for his time was perhaps too focused on him as MOG, and founded in providing for his every want. Was there any snow on the gas pumps? Did he really think he saw it ... or was it pure fabrication? Craig seems to have just followed the "It Is Rewritten" belief/doctrine of vp that he open up sexually (and therefore allow that it was OK practice for VP) ... and he took that to heart, apparently incapable of separating any truth from error on his own. But the court does seem to separate belief from conduct. While Rosie is mentioned, she apparently paid no price. Craig is the only one that paid personally for his acts, and TWI as an organization seems to have given up some funds .... it is presumed. Of course in choosing to stay with a group/cult/church ... conduct is perhaps most important. How many times the cocks crowed is less important than a practice of allowing assault or intimidation against parishioner or employee. What kind of "belief" allows such misdeeds to occur repeatedly in conduct? The idea that God would choose a cult with a long term practice of allowing abuses, to be "the ones" to keep His Word "alive" ... seems a delusional and dangerous belief. TWI elite had the habit of stomping on other members' fruits, to squeeze out wine for themselves. Old wineskins may fit in that analogy somewhere ... Too many have submitted and are incapable of escape ... :( maybe some GSC light can still help ... :)

It's not so bad to help folks that are down and out ... but to work hard just to get numbers up in a little twig or class was kinda crazy. So sometimes people got drug in that just wanted attention or refreshments ... or young women. I don't like to classify folks as "losers", but I did say we were suckers, at least on this cult issue. The "sucker" part to me was accepting so much authority "from above" without demanding accountability. And giving money without knowing where it was really going. There were a lot of good suckers people that fellowshipped ... Dr. Bumpy may have a point ... still, the cyber bar can be a fun place to hang out where they serve cheap drinks. And it's good to have some characters around to give the joint "atmosphere". Maybe it is better to chat with them without meeting them face to face. This way we can all pretend to be young and beautiful.

I recently saw someone on another site that "trashed" people that were trashing vp 20 years after his death. He felt if people didn't have the balls to confront vp then, he didn't want to hear it now ... and that those people got nothing from their training ... While he was reminded that is not what that site was for .. it amazed me someone could be like that still. For one thing ... youngsters in their 20's that were deceived are not the same as older folks now ... also, not all info was available then ... so rape is OK because it was not confronted by everyone then? But he said a mouthful .. he doesn't want to hear it ... if a man wants to be ignorant ... let him be ignorant ... :o he wants to talk about moving the word ... so i guess some still live in wonderland where THEY are keeping Gawd's wuhrd "alive" ... oh well ... he is not the only delusional person on the planet ... but it is good to get the word out .... vp was NOT god's anything ... he traded his family farm and a bunch of hype for a lifetime of service from a bunch of suckers ... basically ... nice suckers some were .. but ...

I really wonder if they weren't trying to simplify their lives by getting rid of people. They had plenty of mula ... just get rid of any trouble makers or people with needs ... TWI in the nineties really sounds like the TWI light zone ... a bad episode ... :blink: They could just idle the engines and plan a lot of trips to Jamaica or Gunnison. Real helping and outreach is such a hassle ... Secretaries keeping track of what people thought about teachings ... yikes ...

Yahooo ... another year older ... great ... well, you're still younger than I am ... flowers and beer ... you still go by the two drink limit, right?

Here is one I still remember from childhood ... but I see now it was prophetic about the TWI structure that we trusted in perhaps the sitting is SIT ... the chair is what we were told TWI was ... Gawd's true ministry As I was sitting in my chair I knew the bottom wasn't there Nor legs nor back But I just sat Ignoring little things like that Did we really believe the snow on the gas pumps ... or did we willingly live in Wonderland? See .. everything I really needed to know I learned in childhood ... (I think that is Erma's book)