rhino

good point excie ... these drama queens are full of themselves the world is coming to an end, trouble in the nexus, there is only one remedy buy my book ... how lame is that?

hmmm, they taught flipper to blow up ships ... give the bear a few beers, send them in ... that reminds me, my dorm floor shirt was "the dead bears" with a passed out drunk bear on it ... my WOW coordinator said she wanted it, but now I think she just threw it out ... Anne ... I want my shirt back ...

That is my best effort at any program that was geared toward benefitting immigrants, per your topic ... I assume legals. I think I heard it from one of my clients ... I'm just saying that is all I know about that ... I do believe it is true though. The recent raids on some illegal shops made news, I'm in favor of that, but those were probably just for show. I would turn them in, but I'm not sure why you think that is so relevant. The point is it seems to be policy to ignore them, except for the recent raids on a couple spots. I favor gradual increase on fines to employers of illegals till it becomes economically infeasible to hire them. These were obviously not Americans (not in spirit at least), and obviously maxing out a bunch of cards, maybe using fake names and fake SS numbers ... who knows , but it was "obvious". You asking all those "how can you absolutely prove that" questions is silly. I would say you are really stupid for not getting this, but then I'd have to say I was stupid for not being able to explain it. But I'll give it a shot. There are rules on how much risk can be taken in giving loans or credit. Aggresive lenders push those rules when there is easy money. So you hear of people that have dogs with credit cards. You also may hear that Fannie Mae of Freddie Mac have some credit problems, because they have gotten real lax, maybe even loaning to illegals on flimsy documents and a promise. Same with credit card companies pushing the envelope on finding new customers, and establishing their market with the immigrants. But who pays for all the defaults, and who pays when the card company goes under? Reminds me of all those weak auto insurance companies that went under in Louisiana. Sure I could cheat, but I have a real identity and a real credit history. For illegals with no real name or ID, they have no risk. The land of opportunity. It happens, and more so with people coming here with no history. sheeesh hap ... so if I can't answer your 1000 questions on every insignificant detail, I must be wrong? Yes they have to provdie an interpreter, you look up what law. ER's have to treat certain things, I forget what the cutoff is, but to find out they still have to hire the interpreter. There are a lot of bills that go unpaid along the border ... your question of whether I know if Pablo Hermanez paid his bill is a distraction, no, I haven't called Pablo to see if he has caught up on his payments. But I know there are hospitals closing along the border because most illegals don't pay.To Rocky's comment about the native indigent, I have less problem paying for the people that have fallen through the cracks in our society, more problem providing for people that come here as a remedy necessitated by the ills in their own society. If the rich Mexicans don't want to take care of what comes from their own societal cracks, their poor should rise up against them. After three beers I favor arming poor Mexicans to revolt against their own government. But now we are really going over the edge :)

All politicians are evil I think. Rocky will tell you how evil Republicans are, I'll tell you how evil Democrats are. But Kathy, you prolly have it figured out best ... not worth getting too bent about. The WW2 generation is fading away ... my step Dad says they keep saying they are going to do something more for those vets .. he says they better hurry. All 4 brothers on my Dad's side were WW2 vets, and 2 on Mom's side. Only one remains. I seem to recall a program that encouraged foreigners to come start new business in the US. It was a cash cow for many, as I recall. It seems at the time I remember a lot of small business window cleaning accounts with immigrants that would pay me from large rolls of cash. I vaguely recall something about money basically being thrown at them to start these little shops. Plus they probably kept two sets of books and avoided a lot of taxes. The other benefit to illegals is they can ace out other low skilled labor just because they are willing to work for less. They still get entry into the country, some subsidized health care and good education for the kids. The employer benefits by having more power over them and saving money. There is also another market on borrowing by illegals. A couple years ago I was at WalMart in Columbia, Missouri. The lady in front of me had a huge cart full of pretty nice stuff, premium stuff. She offers a couple cards that don't work. Then I see her hubby I guess, come over from the next line where he just paid for a cart full of nice stuff. She doesn't speak English so he helps go through a dozen of her cards and pulls out one that isn't maxed. OK, no problem ... off they go. As a law abiding Ameican, I don't have that privilege. There are lots of hidden "taxes" like that. A worker at the hospital in that town complained that they have to provide an interpretter for any language. So someone gets a cold, they want some tylenol cold and flu. So of course they go to the free emergency room. The hospital is required to provide an interpretter, 2 hour minimum, charge of $180 or so. Plus all the regular doc and admin' charges. Total for the two Tylenol cold and flu tablets ... $400. I'd like to know of the official ways we subsidize illegals, but there are other ways. This was getting cold, so I thought I'd chip in some fire. :)

all I could see was the orr and the knot ...

Well, Dot's first post was about the gang in her area ... MS-13 ... and from her link later. Mara Salvatrucha 13 (MS-13) is unfortunately becoming everybody's problem. This plague that came to Long Island from El Salvador by way of the streets of Los Angeles follows the same migratory patterns as the Salvadoran immigrant community that it preys upon, fanning out across the United States from ethnic enclaves in California. It seems to me a lot of the increase in gang activity and increase in deadliness is being imported. Lack of foreign respect for our white picket fences may be a factor in discussing gangs. Race is an issue because ... well because race is an issue. AFAIK, gangs largely revolve around ethnicity and poverty. Any real look at gangs would include discussions of ethnicity as that one does. Since Dot started the topic talking about MS-13, immigration is especially pertinent. It seems to me those that cry racism as soon as illegal aliens are mentioned are not really facing the problem directly, and are impeding genuine discussion. Race is sorta just an extended family, so like the Hatfields and McCoys, a look at those family situations is pertinent. It does appear that it has gotten so bad in some areas, that military intervetnion may be required. That is sad, but maybe better than turning turf and the rule of law over to the gangs.

I think it was clear they said the gangs are not welcome, the drug dealing, weapon wielding, taggers that want to dominate, threaten and harm you people. If it is HATE, it is with good cause. They said if they are drawn down on they will fire rather than sacrifice themselves on the altar of diversity. Even you say you would do that. My relatives were not border jumpers, nor were the relatives of most white folk. They went through Ellis Island, or something like that. Too much disease or if they were "retarded" and they didn't make the cut. The border jumpers come here illegally and demand rights paid for by citizens. I would say the US has done more than maybe any other country to free slaves, and then to repay them. Many white folks have relatives that died freeing the slaves. Certainly the relatives that stayed in Africa are oh so much worse off than the slaves that were brought here. I'll certainly get flamed for this, but don't you count your lucky stars that your great grandfather came to the US instead of staying in Africa? 100 died for each one that made it? I read maybe 15% lost their lives en route. Despite the captain's desire to keep as many slaves as possible alive, Middle Passage mortality rates were high. Although it's difficult to determine how many Africans died en route to the new world, it is now believed that between ten and twenty percent of those transported lost their lives. And this is pretty informative, which seems to say the slave trade to the US was about 5% of the total then, and they were the lucky ones. That's my gut reaction ... I think you are overstating some things ... but if we continue the dialogue, maybe we can reach some agreements ...

The stat that can't be measured is how many thugs don't break into a house since they know the owner likely is armed. Or how many times a weapon being held is enough to prevent a crime. When people are shot in any scenario it becomes a statistic. When people are not shot because a weapon was either wielded or just thought to be available ... that is not a stat ... so all stats are very biased. Good people are likely to not shoot, but they don't get marked as a stat each time they don't shoot ... just the shootings are recorded.

Thanks for posting HCW ... The gang behavior that is hated is the intimidation, destruction of property, and illegal activities like drug running and killing people. I don't mind the language. I like to hear CW's comments ... I'm not sure it is practical to expect Dot to spend time trying to teach MS-13 kids to read, in hopes the horde won't kill her ... and I would prefer CW speak in a language I do understand ... (though I don't really see what she said that was in another language.) If I am ignorant, I'd be glad to be educated ... by calling me incredibly ignorant you have made me humble and ready to learn ... but you didn't expound. Do you have a class I can buy? I thought I looked for the hate. Maybe you could be more specific where the hate is. I'm all ears. OK, I probably sound a little harsh, and I am really glad you have something to say as a black person, (but maybe not black enuff). But really, go ahead and expound (beyond just the initial outrage, which maybe is understandable, if I just knew what you were talking about).

I see The Great Gates" is there a Bee in there on the horses? or is that just another gate and the "B" is assumed? Just curious.

Well, what I find interesting is that the google ads that popped up were Black History Live Conservative Blacks African American Women I wonder if they match ads with chat content ... now in this reply window I have ads for carpet cleaning ... I wonder if I complained about dirty carpets recently LOL The only prejudice I detect in this thread is more of a PC animosity. I "sense" this in some toward people making any negative statements about the huge problem coming across our borders. It seems the PC police want to be sure we "racists" use only approved terminology and express no anger about the outrages that are occurring. Of course closing our borders to only legal immigration would be another racist act, but maybe that would give us a better chance at dealing with the homegrown gangs.

Right excie, I have no problem with the rev' of spiders in noses (tho the ductape crack was an evil image), but once someone breaks the way style sheet, you know they are out of alignment and hominy.

That is a nice fish ... some of those others are huge ... were they all caught that day? Do you prep that tuna with cajun spices?

But they can't be kicked out I guess. So you just have to take away the water that floats their boat ... which would be the money ...How nice for them that the three are permanent members of the board, and all board members have veto power. It would be hard to ever make a change that would step on anyone's toes. That's it then ... drain the tub this boat is floating in ... three men in a tub, glub glub glub ...

If MG is out as pres, does he have any right to use CES funds for his defense or for suing? Does that need to be board approved. If EL is suing, is CES liable? I'd guess so, depending on who made the info public maybe? If EL wins all the CES money, just a shout out to see if you like farm life in Illinois? Just kidding, she is probably too christian for me anyway ... I am mostly heathen... :) It seems the salary mg has received of late is sufficient severance pay, considering the damages. Forget offering him a package to leave. He will do well to walk away whole imnsho. Are these legal actions available to the public now? If so why doesn't someone name names? Are there any lawyers in the house? What great drama, and great that so many issues are being brought to light. Are there any new revelations coming from the prophetess? Surely God wouldn't suddenly shut up at a critical time like this.

Wow CW ... glad you survived all those bullets ... life is good. Sounds like an interesting story, maybe even pertinent here. Still, unless you have a real reason, it would be hard to stay in a neighborhood like that.

you are correct sir ... as Ed McMahon would say ...to the great what's his name? except I think they are three kings, but they may be wise kings ... were there really three?

CW, I'm wondering about your observations of these gangs you have lived in the midst of. Once you know them I'd guess you are accepted and not a threat. But is this a gang that does "bad stuff" to other people? I'm not opposed to friendly gangs, like Boy Scout troops or little league teams.What are the solutions when the gangs are outside the law, and a danger to you or visitors to your home? The idea that the gang members are OK, as long as you don't cross them or stand up to them seems too submissive to me. I'm just wondering with gun toting, drug dealing, aggressive gang members. Hap, of course I understand what you are saying ... but thanks for suggesting I go ahead and confront some killers. My point was simply that the derision toward those that advised carrying instead of submitting seems wrong. Several females seem willing to carry a firearm. Positive suggestions for dealing with an MS-13 gang in your neighborhood are welcome. Perhaps 6th grade is already too late to start. One thing they did near me in New Orleans was open a gym late at night for basketball leagues. But it does seem some gangs from south of the border have been raised with a different set of societal rules, and have negative impact on those that are still weighing their options. We have gangs of coyotes here .. I shoot to kill because they are merciless killers. It really was kind of interesting, becasue the cows seemed to actually understand I was their protection. They will tell you where the threat is because they'll all be watching when there are a couple coyotes checking them out. I find just taking a couple shots at them tends to keep coyotes out of the neighborhood. I guess you can't randomly shoot at people, (as much as some seem to think I'd prefer to do), but it does seem these gangs don't respect weakness.

So what are the betting odds? I'd say 5 to 1 that mg stays in office 3 to 1 on a one year sabbatical even odds that within a month jal makes a gracious offer to step in on a temporary basis personal prophecy still in, but kg is advised to cut back on late night spicey foods somewhere in an open letter, an appeal for financial support now more than ever, to fight satan of course 1000/1 odds that GS is mentioned as a good source for followers of stiffy to broaden their understanding, and express their concerns openly feel free to delete this paw or mods, if you feel it is too irreverant for this thread ... :)

I just meant the tit part doojie ... but I see now that wouldn't have sounded right for titanic ... duh I just wanted to see more "t" than that "a", but I still enjoy the "A" LOL OK, lets see now ....

It appears I understood their context and you read into it Hap ... as they have clarified for you. I think they were pretty clear, but still in your follow up you changed what eagle said (If one approaches a lot of gang members,) to "ONE APPROACHING A LOT OF GANGS" by themself You seem to still be trying to justify your misinterpretation. And you suggest not approaching? What are the options? ... which in some places means you have to run away from them. Probably a good idea if you are alone, but that is surrender. Do you think Mosh wasn't making it personal when he called them racist? My suggestion is the only way he gets that view is because he has a personal bias. Calling someone a racist is pretty personal. Since Mosh did reveal that info on his wife before, I think it is noteworthy and relevant. It is certainly not an insult to him, I assume she is his better half. But to turn concern about a real and obvious problem of the gangs coming across the border into racism seems needlessly defensive on his part. (The white kid meth gangs point is interesting, I still don't see that as the bigger problem, but some links would be interesting.) Mosh turned their trained and legal force into "you are insinuating that you want to go around shooting latinos, and you don't care if your militant vigilante gangs murder innocent people". So he completely flipped what they said. Mosh says the innocent that is being dominated by a gang is a murderous, racist, vigilante if they become trained and licensed to carry and defend themselves and their neighborhood. Even an aggresive action to remove gangs from a neighborhood seems defensive to me. I don't know where you buy or live hap, but it is apparently far from the gangs, or you would know more about them. Even us hicks know about them. It does seem to be PC to defend the rights of the bad guys, more than the rights of the good guys. You express more outrage at the desire to defend a neighborhood than you do toward the loss of the neighborhood to gangs. You are staking a position. As eagle noted ... "The only reasons gangs grow...is because we as a country let them and reservations such as displayed by P-Mosh and HAP encourages it and like fertilizer, helps it to grow." I think that is right. People are discussing legit concerns and some solutions. Some attack them as nuts, apparently for not running away and/or surrendering.

You missed everything Hap ... the plan was for trained people in a group ... an organized counter to the gang ... your option seems to be submission.The topic is gangs hap .. how could you miss that unless you were really trying to miss it? OK, VP is right on this ... "immediate context" ... they are outlaws that dominate some neighborhoods (and you suggest surrender) The most vicious gangs are coming across the border. I tried to tell you this a year ago or so and you said you had never heard of that problem then. Have you still not heard of it? Wake up, it is probably even in Boulder ... but you don't buy in those neighborhoods ... Are you guys really so PC that you feel compelled to defend MS-13?

There ... skitchers unite ... or should I say confess? a skitcher help group is forming ...

titanic there are so many better pics for that first clue :)