rhino

Hi cattcar9 ... glad to have you post ... Do you consider all things that everyone goes through to be of God, since his is not weak to do anything about defiance of his will? How could you determine that TWI was God's will, unless you believed that?

That is true, but I'm really not yet clear how much of our "corrupted" decision making process can be laid on TWI. How do you break out what part was part of our nature pre-TWI, and perhaps that pre existing weakness is what opened me up to the TWI invasion into my brain. And how much difference is there between TWI and the more hard core Baptist church? Certainly TWI had more of the cult aspect than most, but in looking around the real world, it seems most people are subject to powers around them. It might be the boss or spouse or parent or child or church. Control of others happens frequently. Regardless of VP's original intent, whether pure or pure evil, there was a lot of the good stuff, that doojable noted. It was the willingness of "leaders" to overlook the bad stuff that really compromised the organization. Or perhaps it was the intent from the start, to lure people with Bible talk, only to use them. But I am looking at the 20-30 years ago TWI ... they seem to have grown into a more vicious and calculating group after that. It seems they became more of a big head barking orders, than a body working together. Anyway .. TWI was willing to chew people up and spit them out when they were done with them. But there is a whole world out there not unlike that. Is it just the pretense of being a charitable organization that makes them more evil? Or maybe dooj said it all :)

It seems to me the point of this site is largely to point out those CULT like aspects that made TWI different than your average ups and downs life experience. So when you read just a few of the stories, it is hard to set them in the framework of the isolated cult life we lived back then. Perhaps every poster and even every post needs to be marked as to its setting. First it would be good to know when or if the person got out of TWI. Two years and twenty years is a big difference. Then if it is a positive story about TWI days, is it something positive brought about by TWI, or that happened despite the oppressiveness of servitude in the cult. I don't think I ever got the ruby slippers (ruby is not my color anyway), but the vision was alluring. Some of the communal aspects were interesting, health food ideas not so bad, school of the prophets theory ... but the reality was heavy handed authority where people were manipulated for a few people's personal gain. So those that relish the good times, I suppose that is not so bad. But hopefully they are fully aware of the cult aspects that made TWI so devastating to so many. Any revisionist history that glosses over that is insulting to those that were harmed. I sometimes look at it from the "what was I thinking" view, but the "what would have made it work" view is thought provoking as well. Then there is the "I want to unload on those effers" type posts, set against the "sheet happens, forget about it, move on" types. But yeah, there is value in looking back at what for many of us was a decade of living some existential (?) utopian dream. After we get over it emotionally, there may be value in looking at what fooled us into getting in and staying so long. Maybe there is even value in looking at the positive aspects that we envisioned but that were pushed aside by "tyranny". Or there is the value of just reminiscing with old acquaintances. But I agree there can be some richness in a civil discourse about those times.

I think I got $20 for gas one time ... which reminds me of all those trips moving class stuff around, where I got nothing. But to have a full time staff person in an area, how many were "under them", and what was the pay? I guess the trustees did better than most churches, but the rest of the tree was like a real tree. If a leaf had a problem, it just dried up and fell off. Real trees try not to help leaves that are not contributing. Leaves, twigs and branches can be sacrificed to maintain the tree. So it seems the Way Tree was really a fitting analogy for TWI, much better than an analogy like "the body of Christ". The truth was there all the time, sitting there, just like a duck. I don't know how most small churches distribute funds for special needs, but they do keep most of the money for the local church. But I was talking with my family about my church when I was a kid, and we had a little crisis ... the minister came around offering moral support ... and instead of offering anything like cash, he asked for a pledge. So perhaps the concept of taking advantage of people in desperate times is not so new. There were some in the neighborhood that helped taking care of kids for the period though.

There seem few times when crowds go beyond a loud cheer, and everyone is screaming as loud as they can ... and it really does seems to be a deafening roar. They are not all that common. Two come to mind for me ... one was a high school basketball game, we had a pretty good team ... ened up second maybe that year in Illinois. Anyway I think it was against Tilden Tech, a mostly black school around Chicago. This was '72 about, still some lingering racial tensions. They had made a strong showing and had a commanding lead, and finally the Blue Devils were making a move. But they were still down two with the ball out in the backcourt, and 2 seconds left. The noise had been growing as it finally appeared we had a chance. The ball went in to junior Jim Wisman, took a jump shot with a hand in his face from the half court line. He drained it ... nothing but net ... and there was the deafening roar. We beat them handinly in overtime .. no three point shot at the time. Another was a Saints game when they were contending for the playoffs, and someone (I don't think it was Dempsey) kicked something like a 55 yarder to tie or win ... again that deafening roar where you can hardly make out any particular sound. Just thought I'd see if that relates ... I haven't heard it in quite some time.

ummmm ... Tom Tom Tom .... it said bowl record since 2002, not Heisman Trophy winners since 2002 ... Did SMU ever get allowed back in sports? Last I recall they were banned for something, but that was probably 20 years ago ... . Let's see, you guys did get Indiana's Bobby Knight down there at Texas Tech .... famous partly for slapping Jim Wisman, who was a year behind me at our high school. Just trying to make the connections with you Big Twelve Texans ...

OK I know that Big Ten folks may have to help the SEC folks along a little in the education department ... but Ohio State does not equal Big Ten. Of course the Big Ten does not equal the big ten either, since the y now have 11, but forgetting that, there is this ... ....................................................Big Ten ...................SEC Bowl record vs Each Other............... 9-7 ......................7-9 since 2002 Heisman Winners ............................14........................... 8 And we know there is that spiritual darkness emanating from Ohio ... but then Louisiana had Swaggart ... and Edwards ... and David Duke .... OK, I found this going backa little further ... Since Penn State joined the Big Ten in 1993, the SEC holds a 18-15 bowl edge on the Big Ten. Take out the Buckeyes' 0-5 record in that span, and the Big Ten leads. The Big Ten stalwarts? Minnesota is 2-0, and Michigan and Penn State are each 4-2 in the 14-season stretch. Anyway, I was really just standing up for Illinois and the Big Ten ... Cheers Belle ... not sure about Ole Miss, though I saw Illinois was listed as the historic underachiever, which I can relate to ... they did at least ended up 2nd in basketball a couple years ago. But yes,warmer weather in winter seems more fun ... I saw the "chickwear" was sweat suits in theBig Ten, but swim suits in the SEC. No brainer there.

Well finally a ninth corps makes it to the Drudge headline ... VIDEO: BILL FURY AT OBAMA: 'THIS WHOLE THING IS THE BIGGEST FAIRY TALE I HAVE EVER SEEN'... Well, sorta kinda anyway ...

Oh no, that Big Ten vs SEC thing is not settled ... if those sissy southerners could play up north in the cold, where football is meant to be played, the numbers would be different. You put those Northerners in the heat and their body thinks it is summer. Bring those LSU boys up and put them on the frozen tundra ... then we can compare. Of course having gone to Illinois, and living in Louisiana so long, I don't mind at all that OSU lost.

It is possible some here have merely flipped roles, and continue in certain TWI like delusions of grandeur. The front page for GSC offers quite a variety of tools for the enslaved TWIt to tunnel out of the compound. Beyond that the rehashing of the various forms of TWI domination get expressed from every possible angle (and angel?). But for those coming out even I have chatted with some souls that seemed to benefit from the support of ex twits, who can tell of the better life available in the corn fields where they actually grow corn. But I can only tell them of the glories of beer and deer, and offer no anti-cult insurgent army to join. Nor do I want to join the anti-anti- cult insurgency. I'm too busy saving people from those nutty socialists in the political forum. But really my main goal is to enjoy my years ahead, and I feel no strong compulsion to save the gay polar bears, or pull down TWI walls, though I may get some cold comfort when an occassional abusee gets some financial windfall ... feeling perhaps some of my ABS at least got distributed outside the power structur of TWI. by the way, is it still on for the rhino to lead the charge into the compound, with the squirrel brigades bringing up the rear? Nothing I enjoy more than tossing some natives around with my horn and playfully "trompling" them under hoof.

Dear Bumperoneuos ... The several people I know in real life that post here ... are what they say here, at least as much as I know about them. One I knew from Dallas, I knew here only as an avatar, but appreciated dialogue with him ... LG I think he went by. Then he said who he was when he had only a month or so to live, and I found it was a real person that I knew. He doesn't post here now ... were his writings here not a window to his soul? There may be a few that make up names to play various games, but I can't believe many here do that. It is possible that some are too absorbed with the past, but it doesn't mean it did not happen. There are good discussions about health care, aging parents, and of course your expert analysis on the U.S. economy. Of course all those dollars and euros floating around are just electronic too, so maybe that little cartoon tiger of yours could send over some meaningless electronic account numbers to me, and I could move some of that meaningless electronic money over my pretend rhino way. Surely your thoughts here are of a real human. And in essence a real people is just made of of energy, much like those electronic messages. Hopefully none of the African natives will be hunting your tiger skin down in Africa. Don't you hear the drums calling you?

Easy money is not always the answer ... if the dollar has problems and inflation becomes rampant ... the fed is in a box ... I think ... I don't really know ther terminology that well. Pushing on a string is another expression ... But in general, if there is already over building and too much easy moeny, more easy money is not the answer. If you build a house for nobody, it doesn't matter if you are paying no interest, you still have your money in a house that isn't selling, and whose value is declining. Same is true for other industries. But everyone needs to eat ... so will limited food rasie prices? (thanks Bumpy, I had seen tyhat from Prudent Bear)

kansas and WV tech ... or is this a replay? LOL i think it was the kansas guy that did it kansas was ranked 8, and WV tech was #3 but it is kansas in a romp

man, should high stepping an interception into the endzone really be a penalty? maybe he got a double charlie horse ... perhaps the excessive celebration after the touchdown .. I'm not sure about that either ... but you can't high step while running in? I think you should be allowed to moon walk in if you want .. how cool would that be ... I mean, if they are not that close ... didn't you earn the right? Go Kansas ...

Well I am Big on the Big 10 or 11, but Ohio State was always the arch enemy of Illinois ... and having spent so much time in New Orleans I had to root for LSU with the buddies ... so I'm with Belle on this one .... Geaux Tigers!! but if OSU wins, Illinois can boast they were the only team to beat #1, so I'm a happy camper either way ...

Happy Happy Birthday From all of me to you .... Jubilee year? you are only 50? holy Cow ... you get the whole year off now, right? since at your next jubilee year you will be 100, you might borrow a little of those festivities and apply them to this year ...

Pond you were saying peer pressure was not a crime. But I said those other things "would be" a crime. Then I said this is a different level of "prosecution" than a court room. So the court of public opinion will decide on this lower level. It is not a question of guilt based on a mob being persuaded ... in this case it is a mob of first hand witnesses. But even in your example ... are you trying to say the mob is ALWAYS wrong? And to go back to the herd mentality, it can exist in herds or dens ... and those structures are developed over time. There may be herds of abused women, herds of angry ex twits, packs of TWI defenders ... so you do try to look at facts and first hand accounts, recognizing the tendency to defend one's own. I'm thinking those still in TWI are a much tighter pack that most of the herds here ... but I don't feel overly committed to any flock. But with courtroom testimony already being accepted regarding much of the abuse ... it is really pretty silly to pretend it wasn't happening. A person defending his own personal guilt/territory may be the most aggressive of territorial animals. Especially when they were predator like to begin with. Now we can call in a trained psychologist/sociologist to more fully expound the herd/territorial nature of man. Maybe it all goes back to when man first clubbed his neighbors woman and drug her back to his cave. Ugh.

thank you ... thank you very much occassionally I try to interpret the bumpy one's tales ... and I had previously mentioned a new chicken getting attacked when it got too close to the others, if it was not accepted. So I received a word of interpretation that Bump's cryptic tail was referring to said analogy, but using different species. Of course WD did not even lose a hand, so he can continue to tease the lions from the safety of his own little cage. But those that were abused can hardly be compared to a top of the food chain animal. It might be more fitting to use the predator/abuser as the bad dog with rabies, and an escaped victim as the human that gets the humane society to put the animal down.

Peer pressure may not be a crime, but if there was deliberate fraud and malfeasance, or coercion ... that would be a crime. If the organization overlooked sexual abuses, or covered them, that would be a crime. Proving these things effect one's decision to forego college or children would become difficult, but I wonder if this is the stuff class action suits are made of. It is not the same as smoking exactly, and probably just another of life's crimes that do not get prosecuted, but there was long term harm. But at least, in this public opinion court/forum, we can "prosecute" those real crimes, which can provide some small relief for the victims. More of the relief comes from the mutual support rendered by people that share their common experiences. Hopefully this is done in the background of enjoying life, before it all gets away from us. :) And as for this den of lions ... if the accusers accusations were all tales with no teeth, the lion tamer would not be devoured. Reality bites

Where is Tex's blog, that everyone is talking about?

Can you tell us what was in the lockbox, and how some were chosen? Is there more than presented here at GSC? Do we have to buy the book to find out?

actually there are two sides to it ... basking in the abuse or revealing TWI eeeevils. But my main point is about the constant back and forth over what seems the SAME darn point. But I guess "Thaaaat's entertaaaaainment" (sung to that little tune ... "that's entertainment") Well drinking the blood of the lamb does seem rather cannibalistic ... and of course they were not eating Jesus that night, so you hope the meaning is for the wine and bread (or dry scab wafer) to be merely symbolic ... and not actually becoming bood and flesh, (which would however, be more nourishing). The supper of course was not in the land of milk and honey ... but Jesus says (from wikipedia) This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." So he says you are to drink the cup ... I guess that means the contents ... do we know it was wine? Is there a church that uses drambouie? But Jesus had a history of turning water to wine ... so I'd bet on that. I'd do more research, but checking over your twig leader's blue forms, I see you have not been abundantly sharing 10% 15% so you are no doubt out of fellowship. When you send in your check you will find the scales drop from your eyes ... and the eyes of your understanding will be enlightened. are you in the dark continent now?

Good point Waysider ... actually it is the first time I noticed the sub title about whiners ... There seems to be a good point about moving on ...but discussing the past sins at a site for revealing the past and/or present sins, doesn't seem out of place. But if it becomes overly oppressive to some, then it may be better to move on. Still there is always some burden to righting wrongs. But it would be nice to stay on the sunny side of life ... as much as possible. ... and dear Bumpy will never tire of making that point perhaps, and others will continue to unweave the past ... I can live with that ... But back to the red wine ... what were the French doing while Jesus was running around Italy? OK, not Jesus, but the apostles made it to Italy, not France. So the French are only philosophizing ... it almost seems maybe Jesus intructed them to avoid France. Was it dry? Yes I'd say dry, and a full bodied red. Jesus may be the sweetest name I know, but the blood of the lamb (is that what we are talking aobut?) would have been fully mature ... OK ... that's all I gots ...

Did they even use clear glass glasses back then? It looks like they cleared the table already, and Jesus is skipping out early to avoid the bill. 1542; Oil on canvas; Galleria Borghese, Rome Jacopo Bassano's Last Supper is one of the masterpieces of 16th-century Italian painting. Instead of the elegant grouping of figures in Leonardo's painting, which inspired it, this dramatic scene features barefoot fishermen at the crucial moment when Christ asks who will betray him, and the light passing through a glass of wine stains the clean tablecloth red. Recent restoration has only now revealed the extraordinary original colours, which had been heavily painted over in the 19th century, when the emerald green and iridescent pinks and oranges were not in fashion.

had to be blood red wine ... white would not look right in the pictures ... lets roll the tape ... well, it looks a little brown ...