rhino

if it was publicly traded, twi would be ripe for take over ... they are ripe with cash ... other than that, they perform terribly. But since they are private, the BOT will sit on their assets and milk it till they are dead, or till they lose their tax status becasue they do nothing charitable. at least that is how I see it ...

maybe off topic, but as long as we are talking fat men like mikey moore ... is it true that lcm swelled up for a period after athletes of the spirit? Somewhere I heard he became rather large, perhaps from the stress of prosecution ... I haven't followed the whole thread, but maybe it could all be done with the Rocky Horror Picture Show characters ...

I don't care what they do ... except for the slave labor part, the little farm commune idea seems kinda fun. But with the volumes writtens here about the old way corpse ... it seems interesting enough to watch what happens with the newest version. Aren't we here like the elders at the gate ... to watch over all these things and offer opinion ... with beer in hand ?

You are clearly more in touch with these folks than I am. For me it is just an interesting external event to chat about. But considering their copying of several points from the old days, it would seem they would want to be prepared to answer the obvious questions that will arise. What better place for trial by fire than right here? Carry on my little squirrel friend.

I don't think they are evil ... no more so than the well intentioned were in the days of the 70's and early 80's. But the ego and pride does have a way of welling up ... and the concept of training up "leaders" seems to put V2P2 as the mog ... and he is only 24? And the structure seems like an old wineskin. As for the geezers, they already have a pattern of the old ministry patterns etched in their brain, so that would be hard to escape. Which is why it would seem copying directly from the old patterns only reinforces that other actions will be funneled down the same old path. It sure seems they want to claim the greatness of the old days as their own. When there are churches around that have to share a minister, yet have quite a few parishoners, I'm skeptical of groups like CFF with several paid staff. I'd certainly want a full disclosure of finances, and a knowledge of who will own this farm that is being improved. But that's just me ... I'm not joining. Just a fun little topic for a site like this. Maybe the third time is a charm ...

I don't know about the CFF outreach program or their foundational class. But it does seem to be the organization behind the Way Corps II. And there does seem to be a massing of Wierwilles ... which is fine by me ... it is nice they could stick together I suppose. It seems a little odd that they would not reveal the CFF brand on their Sowers page ... perhaps it is assumed only their followers will be going there anyway. But I don't see Sowers mentioned on the CFF page either. Oh, and it doesn't appear the volunteers have to pay, except by way of their labor. Their family camp seemed a little sparse, so it might be hard to draw 12 volunteers to give up almost a year in apparent submission to a 24/7 program. Of course with Vic2 leading the thing with 12 disciples volunteers, the time in the wilderness seems fair game for our helpful comments. With the obvious comparisons, you have to wonder if these special twelve won't be endued with a special aura of destiny ... as they sit at the campfire and speak softly of the greatness that lies ahead of them ... Well, they will certainly have plenty of examples of what NOT to do, but it does seem they are starting off down the same path. Pick your rut carefully, you may be in it a long time ...

I don't think they owe me any answers ... I'm just curious if they are going to make a bunch of young kids endure old tapes and call that training. Farm work and site development might be good training, but if they went to New Orleans they could make $25/hour for some construction work and get real training. And have a lot more fun with their time off. But maybe they'll have a good ol' time out in the woods ... it wouldn't be the first time some kids have wasted a year or ten of their formative 20's. If someone was planning a year in the Sowers thingy .. they might read this and consider a little more deeply what they were getting and what they are giving up. And they might even decide then it is just the ticket for them, but they'd go in with a little stronger position, and less likely to be bowled over.

Yeah ... he can do whatever he wants ... and we can chatter away Over time you'd hope the memories of the bad part of old vp's legacy might be forgotten, but it seems pretty much etched in stone here. They are using the "It Is Written" motto as well. By not changing a word, I'd have to imagine that they believe those Corps principles were from God ... and are trying to continue the thing ... presumably minus the profane rantings, sexual indescretions, overbearing personalities ... at least volunteers don't have to pay to come work, except with their time. It seems he was in fellow laborers last year in Ohio, with Christian Family Fellowship ... apparently involving the Sh*royers, the Cla*pps, and the Gui*gous. I'd guess that is fairly public knowledge, and not something he'd want to hide. So if they are trianing leaders, they must be "rising up" out of the CFF ranks, and that must be the ministry that will be receiving the material abundance these new leaders believe for. He says Sowers is a full time Christian leadership training program that he will be coordinating. Who knows, maybe they'll be building another large VPW auditorium down there one day.

Yet you bothered to quote me, but you changed my quote. This thread does have something to do with TWI. It is mostly about TWI. And I see you changed your term "slander" to "defamation" as I advised you. Though you did slip slander back in there at the end. V2P2 (that is just too clever to pass up :)) intending anything abusive is doubtful, but as Ham said, the structure seems straight from the playbook of a system that was abusive. As Waysider's link shows, the principles he is using look quite familiar. But there are so few details that it is left to idle speculation to figure the rest. Here are a few more pics from Doug's page. I wonder to what ministry they are going to be bringing material abundance. Is this actually a part of TWI or some offshoot? September through June, and it says it is a 24/7 program. Are the volunteers supposed to be controlled 24/7 for ten months? Four hours work, four hours study .. special projects ... why so sketchy? It could be fun if you owned the place, but what will these volunteers gain for their labor? Do they get to sit around and listen to tapes four hours a day?

Good grief rocky ... First, what is written here is not slander ... slander is spoken ... your didactic tone is humorous since you don't even get that right. Libel is probably the word you are groping for, but this isn't exactly published for the public. This is all posted on a site about the cult that used the same principles that young vpw chose to copy verbatim. I hardly think young vpw will be exposed to public ridicule as a result of almost private posts here in this little group. And I doubt the current version of libel would include posts buried in a place like GSC anyway. Marketing Dictionary: libel Defamatory statement about a person that is published and thereby exposes that person to public ridicule. Libelous statements are not the same as slanderous statements. Libelous statements are printed, malicious (i.e., printed without just cause), and may be true; however, slanderous statements are spoken, not printed, and are not true. A lawsuit charging a publisher or advertiser with libel may be lost if it can be proven that the allegedly libeled individual is a celebrity (in the public eye) and that the statement in question was published because of its newsworthiness, not because of malicious intent on the part of the publisher or advertiser. Now all this is based on a very public figure vpw ... whom we all knew and experienced. Most of us memorized those corps principles. What the vpw the second is doing aboslutely relates ... he chose to relate by using the corps principles verbatim. And you say that has absolutely nothing to do with the old way corps? On this site about the harms of the old cult ... it is quite chatworthy. The parallels couldn't be more obvious. I don't care what young vic might do in his woods ... but opinion of this can be spoken of freely. Questions are being asked based on a few facts. But mostly it is humorous to me, that another vpw has chosen to use old vic's corps principles. Obviously it must be out of some sort of admiration for old vpw, though if someone else is organizing it, then the use of vpw's name appears to be partly for name recognition and lineage sake. You are boldly making very specific charges of slander here Rocky ... by which you probably mean defamation. But you are the one apparently doing the defaming of people expressing their opinion. Your attacks and charges are baseless. Your consistent posted assaults and charges against people here are much closer to defamation, in my opinion. This thread is about whatever Ham said it was about. It is on a site about TWI and is about "here we go again". If you read Ham's posts, you will see this thread does have a connection to TWI. Has something changed lately Rocky. I never agreed with most of your positions, but lately your logic seems to have really broken down. Maybe you had a mini stroke ... or too much stress from the elections?

I said George was so smart, not me ... you can't even follow that?

All I know of V2P2 is his little site and his copying of the corpse principles. As Oakspear said, trying to revive the legacy. Slander him? Are you (rocky) a lawyer for TWI trying to intimidate folks from using free speech to say what they think of this? Good grief .... are you going to curry favor at your little corps site for standing up for VPW? Slamming the kid for copying the corps principles for his little rusty acres retreat advance is hardly slander ... it is a voice from folks who have been there .. done that ... Oh, and little rock says you can't speak negative because v2p2 hasn't harmed you ... what kinda nutty statement is that? Most people in the news that do bad things didn't do it to me .. or to the reporter ... it is about the thing, not about my/their involvement ... just wondering if rocky is on board for this excellent adventure in the woods ... He is not only a defender for v2p2, he is going to the camp ... VPW has emerged to do a camp with the corps principles ... that is chat worthy

I know George .. George is a friend of mine .... You're no George St. George ... George and his PhD are not making an ignorant comment .. maybe you should learn to back off in the face of superior intellect ... A degree in Chemistry is not like philosophy .. or whaever your degree was ... I switched out of Chemistry .. so I know it is no piece of cake ... organic chem, p chem .. differential equations ... and that was just early undergrad... I salute the chemistry doctorate :)

He seems to be setting up a place with way corps principles ... and he is victor paul wierwille. Do we need your permission to goof on that a little? As far as I can tell, it offers nothing but the similarities to some old corps junk. He did have a choice in setting up something that only seems to glom off of some nasty business of his grandpa.

Well V2P2 has been born with the brand name of the old product, so it may still have some cache. Why go through someone else's organization? This way there are no franchise fees or commissions. Just start up the training, and wait for those old corpse to send their kids away to experience the way corps like they did ... sorta ... Do they have to pay to go to this labor camp? Is there beer?

Yeah ... I think those hold harmless statements are small protection. If there is any negligence they mean next to nothing. Especially if there is money taken, or unpaid work being performed. I have some woods that could use the attention of some slave labor students seeking spiritual enlightenment. If they can come up with $500/month, I will even feed them millet and show them which end of a paint brush to hold. Oh and I have a rusty truck, a rusty van, a rusty tractor, and a rusty 3 bottom plow, and some rusty barn roofs. So my rust trumps V2P2's. Maybe RonG could come up and teach a block on old stuff rehab, and another block on weapons training hunter safety. Other spiritual wise guys out there can apply for the honor of teaching here for free. Of course there will be a large fee minimal level of donation to assure the suckers apprentice MOGs receive the most from their training. I'm discounting all this training, but I will require that esteemed graduates pay me 15% of their earnings for life. My Way Tree will not have twigs, but saplings, with the individuals being called "saps". Actually though Ham, it would make a good rehab program maybe ... or training for young folks. But I think that is why people have parents, and they have 4-H, or Future Farmers ... etc.

I think one poll said most people here (80%?) got out of TWI at least 8 years ago, most more like 15-20 years. The thing that keeps the place "alive" appears to be a community of folks that were in in the 70's up toward '86, then another group that endured some lcm whackiness and left in the 90's. Anybody needing help getting out has a ton of stuff to read off the front page. They can drop into any disscussion and get a feel of real people having fun, and that are totally irreverent toward any TWI "mystique". (Can I be ordained as "The very IrReverand Rhino?) I don't spend much time thinking of recovery, more about various life choices and beliefs. We use TWI as a comparison because it was so much of our early years, and a common knowledge base. For us it is a good case study that can be related to, though it is easy to devolve into minutia of just how that case study should be interpretted. And there is something cool about this circle that were so commonly bound for so long, then to have this 20 year jump where we dicover how lives turned out. At that corpse site you see some real pictures and real names ... so it is different ... not much discussion though. I rather think some still hold delusions bout TWI, that it was all well meaning folks that got a little twisted. I tend to believe that view for most, but at the root were some people that were too willing to use and abuse, and that became systematic and involved many people that some would prefer not to "think evil of". So some don't come here or stay here ... I still like the crowd, and like them better with beer or wine in hand. It is more of a bar for me from 5pm till midnight.

That reminds me of "suspension of disbelief" ... Suspension of disbelief is an aesthetic theory intended to characterize people's relationships to art. It was coined by the poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge in 1817. It refers to the willingness of a person to accept as true the premises of a work of fiction, even if they are fantastic or impossible. It also refers to the willingness of the audience to overlook the limitations of a medium, so that these do not interfere with the acceptance of those premises. According to the theory, suspension of disbelief is a quid pro quo: the audience tacitly agrees to provisionally suspend their judgment in exchange for the promise of entertainment. Maybe we willingly overlooked the obvious problems with our "chosen ones" fictional world. It was rather entertaining, though it got us into some trouble longer term, as we isolated ourselves from those lesser beings like family members or neighbors. The torture of carrying the burdens of the world was perhaps an extension of that suspension into the psycho drama realm, or horror flick maybe. I suppose the Jesus Christ figure is rather common in any good movie, so maybe vp got swallowed up by the role playing. Or maybe it was just a premeditated con for him ... and the rest of us were just players on his little stage ...

I think this was the big playManning escapes a sure sack ...heaves it up to be caught and held onto with one hand and the back of his helmet ...

yeah .. I think some olympic guys ... maybe cycling ... had to quit their practice races or something, because of breathing problems ... but China doesn't care about the environment or lead paint or other chemicals on toys they sell us. I just heard a bunch of those digital picture frames, that display a variety of photos, came preloaded from China with a computer virus. Coal can be cleaned up, though I think they are wasting money with all this CO2 scrubbing. Here is Algore scamming for his carbon credit company.

WELL .... increasing the global supply does make a little difference in price. ANWR would help some, offshore would help more. It would also take a little of the power away from the Saudis and those that control the flow. Also it would increase US revenue and jobs and ease our trade deficit. Other sources are good ... we have 300 years worth of coal and some oil and natural gas. And we need about 1000 new nuke plants. Wind is down to 5 to 10 cents/kWh for good locations while photo voltaic cells are still up around 25 cents / kWh.

I think Phil has an agent that got him a heated burrow with all the amenities. He spends winters in Florida with some squirrel babes climbing all over him, and flies up to do his little shadow routine once a year. Phil's official forecast as read 2/2/08 at sunrise at Gobbler's Knob: Here Ye! Here Ye! Here Ye! On Gobbler's Knob on this fabolous Groundhog Day, February 2nd, 2008 Punxsutawney Phil, the Seer of Seers, Prognosticator of all Prognosticators, Rose to the call of President Bill Cooper and greeted his handlers, Ben Hughes and John Griffiths. After casting a weathered eye toward thousands of his faithful followers, Phil consulted with President Cooper and directed him to the appropriate scroll, which proclaimed: "As I look around me, a bright sky I see, and a shadow beside me. Six more weeks of winter it will be!"

I guess the programming was deeper than I realized ... when vpw died, I left twi ... but seeing victor paul wierwille is up and running again, I found myself awaking late at night, digging through boxes for old blue forms, and mailing money to box 328. :o (there were no cats harmed in this incident)

yes, I should have said "if you mean pyramid scheme", which came to mind for me. And I wouldn't have said anything, but it made me wonder if it would have been more successful if it was structured like Amway ... in light of the topic title. I suppose an annual residual check would have made us feel dirty. Yeah, we were treated somewhat as slaves. But since it was good to be a doulos, and we were moving the word ... blech ... I suppose we submitted willingly, though I'm sure there was a Pied Piper in there somewhere.

Yes ... but it wasn't really a "pyramid scheme", since in that case everyone would have gotten some profit for those we "brought up". I am sure I'd be retired if I got a piece of the action for everyone I either got in piffle, or ran the class for, or got to go WOW or corpse ... and then a piece of all their ABS, and a small piece of all the product that those "under me" sold. But the top dogs took it all ... and most of us paid for the privilege of doing sales. A financial pyramid scheme would have been much better ... shoot, maybe we would have stuck around if it was making us rich. :o