bliss

funny.........I remember one night we were to play AOS on video, and that day, some folks in our Twig "copped-out" (left) the ministry. All night I heard, "it's cuz we were showing AOS, damn adversary, look at the spiritual competition!" I bought it hook , line - and shtinker!

sounds like a most of our stories with our first class......please continue.......not boring at all :D-->

Funny,(and scary) Reading Kenyon(and DAKE) is what set me on a course to leave the Way Ministry. I still need a lot more time to digest and think about things concerning doctrine. I know there are a lot of errors, (Raf- read your stuff, even hubby agreed with most of it.) There is just too much stuff to redo, rethink, check, etc....who to believe? I would love to sit and research the Word all day, but it is just not possible. Am I back to my own "opinion" on everything? At some point I'll do a doctrinal thread for this.

Jan, Whoa. Most leadership told people "no way hozay" to buying a home.....(to which they had no right to say) Here is your BC saying, go for it, which is exactly what he should of said.....it's your money, you decide.. I don't think he had "forknowledge" that you wouldn't be able to sell. That is for you to figure out with your life style and family situation financially. But having said that, he's guilty of not accessing your military situation, and realizing that you have to move too much. We have many military friends and they all refuse to buy a house until they are out, it is just too much hassle. Then, yes he should've advised you otherwise, but, we all esteemed leadership's advice way too much over our own common sense. Whew, glad that is over....back to my brain, thanks!

No, certainly not going to take any way classes. It was for the sake of arguement, mainly hubby and I, going back and forth on this subject... couldn't really agree/disagree with either side. Wanted my fellow Greasers input :P--> Thanks

Ya, but the money is just sitting there. They did donate money to the Tsunami victims, it just wasn't announced. I had 2 reactions from innies. One was "good,they should, about time!" Another was "what? they better not have sent my money to the idolators!" Why not announce it, and teach the Jesus principles with it, come on now? I am getting off topic here..... They are NON PROfit- so they aren't suppossed to charge XTRA, am I way off on this?

Wow, I must have missed something... I always CRIED. But then again, I was 18, and always cried at stage productions..... :o--> And I thought it was so cool that he got the idea from sat night fev, (that was what i was told, never knew it was the other way around, whew ;)-->) Looking in hindsight, ya pretty silly.... But honestly for me, at the time, I loved it... Live and learn eh?

You sure Oak? I just had a Rev tell me Doc use to say that about Kenyon? Doesn't matter, anyway, but what do ya'll think of Kenyon's writing?

HAHHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAHAHHHHHAHAH Ya, lifetime guaruuuunnnnteeee! Wouldn't that be something? Thanks for all the input, I do see both sides. I think it is a matter of motive here. While a laborer is worthy of his hire, I didn't see any class coordinators receiving anything for running a class, except a larger utility bill and no toilet paper...... but they were blessed to give, no doubt (maybe at first). So, who is the laborer that is receiving? Would the ministry be more honest to just recoop cost of goods used? I do like the concept of take now pay later if you think it's worth it, unfortunately we live in a real world!! (i know you all are just dying to talk about the worthiness of the class, but no) Let's imagine it is(since we all thought it was at one time or another) How many of you had people who honestly could not afford to pay for it? How many times did the ministry try to help those? (none to my knowledge) So what principle were they trying to teach? Believe for the money? Wasn't the class suppossed to help them "believe"? huuuummmmmmmmnnn.......

So is it in the interest of commerce that theway charges $100? Or would they be more honest to list the cost of materials, and charge. Of course, what of the bum on the street who needs to hear the Word, but has no money, would it be "wrong" to pay for him, or for the ministry to help? Socks-very enlightening.

Hubby and I were discussing this subject today. Should the Word always be free? $100 is pretty steep for paper and binder and 2 books. Maybe $25. Although, we do pay motivational speakers thousands of dollars to improve ourselves, shouldn't we pay some for the knowledge of the book of life? (work with me people, assume the "class" or "a" class of your choice, let's not debate the value of WAP or PFIL here... ) There are churches that have classes for free all the time, you are free to donate..... But, in the Vey it was $100 per class. This is supposed to help you get REALLY committed, that you would show up and take it serious, so as to not lose your moola! Business and Truth separate? (not for profit ) College certainly isn't free. I am on the fence on this one. So any thoughts about this? Maybe I should do a poll. Bliss

What is wrong with Kenyon? I actually love his writing....am I missing something? I know doc vic use to say "he writes like I teach" something like that, but what is wrong with him? Help me out here, researchers..... :D-->

Family Tables is from Florida. And it is meant to be a place for the "young folks" to chat and discuss teachings and people that are involved with the Way. (anywhere in the world). It did get shut down for a while, and he had to jump through a lot of hoops (leadership) to get it off the ground. His main concern was to have something that kids can relate to since they are always on the computer and the ministry had nothing for them in cyberspace. (ya know, better than chat rooms for skate boards or porn......)

WELCOME SEA!!:)--> Yes, we all want to hear more, don't we guys...? This is like a great novel that you can't put down (not to downplay your pain, Vix, I am sorry for any bad experienced). Many have lived through the hell of TWI and more. It can be real cathartic to share your story because a lot of people here can relate! continue....... bliss

Most "innies" only know what HQ and leadership tell them. They were told only of the HQ recognition.( I know this because when I told family members, their FC had no other info, and wanted to know where they got their info!) Most did not know of anything else, so I assume that goes for most staffers. Many still don't even know how to use the internet, and "are scared to". (FACT) But we all know who "knows" about the real services that were held for Mrs. W. They should have been there and announced it, at least to HQ staff. Looks like selfishness, ego, pride......hence , control. God Forbid any of them give JP any respect, I think that had a lot to do with it. NO GRACE in TWI. :(-->

Ditto Digger! (keep up the good work) Just talked with an "innie" friend today. After saying "yea it sucks, adversary sucks", it was immediatly turned to " but it makes me wonder what is REALLY going on to make the hurricane go there, a lot of spirtitual crap I am sure. I mean why didn't they get out, I can't believe they are so poor for good, and had no where else to go, and they want the governemnt to be responsible and help!" I sighed, and simply stated, "well, if that is the case then, Las Vegas would be swallowed up by now!" (due to "so much sin there ya know) ;)-->.... I am not going to judge what and how much sin is in an area or why there are poor folks. Jesus even said, they will always be with us. So pointing fingers and saying 'shoulda got a job and moved" or "why did they build houses on sand? " isn't helping anyone!!!!!!!! The ignorance is THICK in TWI, glad to be rid of this mindset. I just feel bad for my friends that think this way........I will lead by example. Bliss

Oh, you just have to have the last word,wolf! ;)-->

Raf, Sure you can. By the way, I read your article on "Power For Abased Living". Great, I needed that. I think it fits in here too, that s@#t happens, so stop condeming yourself that you caused it or that you were'nt believing enough.... how bout...trust God during this time and get through it knowing he's holding hand. I don't want to overthink the why's and how's of the people who stayed,(in New O) it is not my place to judge. All it will do is make me think evil, and NOT do anything....and that is not going to help or change anything! raf-not to derail I'll pm you. Bliss

no Rascal it was $29,000, eehh but who's counting?

My Pa screamed at me today. Said if he ever hears another negative word about the Catholic church and how evil it is from me he'll disown me. " Only 3 organizations are helping those people, one being the Catholic Church, and I don't see the Way on that list." I didn't say a word. I know he's right. I haven't said anything negative about the church for years.........now he brings it up all of the sudden when I am going through leaving TWI, (he knows not) so I just cried...... What have I EVER done for people in need? NOTHING I am ashamed. I thought teaching them the Word was all I was supposed to do, what a crock. Isn't it " I've got a jack but I won't help you?' oh wait, that is what it was, not what it should have been.....

No gun, but try this on for size.... I was to help my BC take a twenty something girl to get an abortion, because she got pregnant with her fiance's baby. They both attended fellowship, 1 was Adv grad I believe. Our leadership said " they were not ready to have a baby, no way are they mature enough and not married yet." Mind you they were in their early 20's.(not 15) Anyway, we went into clinic after clinic to see who would NOT talk to her about "other" alternatives other than abortion. Even the evil planned parenthood wasn't about to just rip it out of her tummy!!! My BC would storm out of each clinic as soon as they said, "well are you sure, how bout adoption? You need some more counseling.." The girl was so confused, my BC was mean and livid with the clinics and telling them "I am her minister and she needs an abortion, and don't even mention anything else!!" I bet that confused the hell out of them... So no, she had no gun to her head, but shesure felt that way from leadership don't ya think? The girl was so upset and stressed she ended up with a miscarriage. :(--> I am livid to this day. Of course the miscarriage was a "see, God knew all along that this was wrong, blah blah....".

I don't think the devil gets employed until AFTER a natural phenomenon or disaster. But on another note.... Where does one go? Tornado alley: everyone can just live underground....but then it could flood..and be so boring and hot, no light....bad Earthquake central....they could live in cliffs, oh wait, landslides and forest fires.. Hurricane coasts, the could move INLAND, oh wait, flooding.....no nice view either.... Maybe we should all live in.....Buffalo! OH wait.....blizzards... I am still trying to figure this one out

And.....I just got back from the most heartfelt, warm, "compassionate", touching, beautiful bible study, (not way affiliated), that I have , I think ever....if not then in a longgggggggggggggggggggg time.... I can't remember the last time I felt such LOVE for God and from God in a long time.... no guns involved ;)-->

I HAVE had a GUN TO MY HEAD!!! FOR REAL. Sure I had a choice. Thankfully the results of my choice, lead me to still be here today. (and what that choice was is not what you think) I had no physical gun to my head keeping me in the Vey, but, having gone through both real and figurative guns, (the later being fear, manipulation, coersion, guilt...oh just pick your poison), my reactions and feelings were quite similar. ummm...Chilling. It's uncanny. Never thought about it until now. The only difference is I didn't have a sudden panic of fear, just a long continuous drip..............

Funny- at an early point in my ministry career, my dad ran into someone that told him the Way was cultish and won't let people have freinds outside. My dad then posed that question to me the moment I got off the plane from taking my first Adv. class!!! I screamed NO!! That is not true.......then I quietly looked at my life and said, "if it's not true, then where are all my olm man friends?" Of course I rationalized it away, like they were bad influence...blah blah... That should've been more apparent to me, but they never said "thout shall NOT", only assumed and implyed as you got more heavily 'commited'. I knew not to disown my family, however I was very relectant to keep witnessing to them in the late 90's because I didn't want to have to "mark and avoid them". (I knew my Pa would've never let anyone yell at him, hello?) So of course he wouldn't have lasted long was my logic. So leave good well enough alone. Now that I think about it, my PA always asked me questions like "so, what kind of car does The Rev. Marinfail drive? where does he live? and how much money does he make? What does the Way do for poor people?" I used to be so exhausted just trying to defend everything... truth be told, I never had any of those answers, except for the house one. Go figure... Bliss Hey Belle check your PT's if I did it right.