bliss

Yes, Goey, I think I am. I am baffled by the mere fact that it took me 15 years to remember the passion and zeal I use to have learning about God. Once I took PFAL, I thought I was done. That I had it, and I didn't need to look any further. I went in "passive" mode. And I literally stopped thinking. Now, I am the way I use to be before. WACKO I guess it really doesn't matter what language it was. I am trying to peice this "research ministry?" puzzle out. I talked to a staffer recently, who, although knows of many evils, still thinks that Doc vic had it all figured out, and they package it better than anyone else out there! I have friends that have been out for years, but still think "the Way'' packaged it the best, so they can't find anything. I am dismantling this "package" every time you all tell me a "plagerism, forgery, ignorance, sloppy, research" thing he did. So, if he use to teach that it was E.Aramaic, then, Greek, with the intention to "sound smart".........and in actuallity it was a lot more than that, it is just a script, many spoke only Greek....etc.............. it is like his "research house of cards" keeps crumbling in front of me. Most people don't go to these lengths like I do. Therefore, they will defend the mans methods, can't blame them. I am just a nosey research gal. Thanks all of you.

:blink:

For me, without getting some sort of "feeding" , I am as dull as a doorknob (the brushed nickel kind)! I need to have worship time, and learning time with others once a week!!! This week has been very emotional for me on many levels. I had to ask myself "what is it that makes me really LOVE someone?" It came down to ...........................yup you guessed it, GOD! If we don't talk about Who HE is and what He does in our lives, etc.........then, I care ,but I am not ENDEARED or really love them. Since leaving the Way, God sent us to this bible sunday school at a church that has totally changed our lives! A real test for us now, because the man leading it, is moving out of state. So, do we follow a man? God forbid. That is what we had to "check" of ourselves. But, truly, the love and humility and compassion this man has for the Lord, and for others, was very overwhelming...(not used to it...yaknow?) He endeared us, therefore, we love him. And, frankly, I like feeling this way. But, we don't stay or go because of him, and we are very hesitant and doing anything like that again. So, we aren't "members'' yet either, it scares us still. But, the community of love for Christ and others is still the best thing for us and our children. imo

Speaking for myself and others who have looked here, but don't post..there is a reason you know... I call it, negative juju. (for fun) I needed GS to help me vent and learn and get out of the Way mindset, way-colored glasses what have you.... for a season. I don't post as much anymore for the simple reason that I am healed in many categories. GS has helped a lot. Most from my new relationship with Christ and a great bible class I am going to ................... Some folks need more healing time than others, and to come here and watch the lashing out, back and forth, slaming, negative talk does not help them.. They are trying to leave or have left something that already did that. Whether or not most of us are still "Christian", we should maintain a sense of godliness, a healing balm to the folks that are searching .....otherwise they see the attitude and don't want any part of it! And God forbid that it turns them off and makes them stay in TWI just one day longer, makes me sad. peace bliss

Per Goey "Contrary to VPW's teaching, Agabus was not telling Paul not to go, he was warning Paul of what would definitely happen when he went - not if he went. Had Paul not gone to Jeruslalem, and the event didn't come to pass, the prophecy would have false. This prophecy was to prepare Paul. Although this prophecy was "personal" for Paul, I would point out that Paul did not seek it out, and Agabus did not ask Paul his permisson to give it. " Holy cow! Are you saying that the teaching on this was wrong..? I don't remember the context of the teaching, like "what was VP's point", but I remember it vividly as "Paul DON"T GO TO JERUSALEM". So, the point was really to share with Paul what he'd be going through, that's all? And God had 3 different incidents to tell him that? Can you give me more background please?

a tidbit................ The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15), which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep. If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimetres (20x20x12 inches), that is 75,000 cm3 (cubic centimetres) or 4800 cubic inches, the 16,000 animals would only occupy 1200 m3 (42,000 cubic feet) or 14.4 stock cars. Even if a million insect species had to be on board, it would not be a problem, because they require little space. If each pair was kept in cages of 10 cm (four inches) per side, or 1000 cm3, all the insect species would occupy a total volume of only 1000 m3, or another 12 cars. This would leave room for five trains of 99 cars each for food, Noah’s family and ‘range’ for the animals. However, insects are not included in the meaning of behemah or remes in Genesis 6:19-20, so Noah probably would not have taken them on board as passengers anyway. Tabulating the total volume is fair enough, since this shows that there would be plenty of room on the Ark for the animals with plenty left over for food, range etc. It would be possible to stack cages, with food on top or nearby (to minimize the amount of food carrying the humans had to do), to fill up more of the Ark space, while still allowing plenty of room for gaps for air circulation. We are discussing an emergency situation, not necessarily luxury accommodation. Although there is plenty of room for exercise, skeptics have overstated animals’ needs for exercise anyway. Even if we don’t allow stacking one cage on top of another to save floor space, there would be no problem. Woodmorappe shows from standard recommended floor space requirements for animals that all of them together would have needed less than half the available floor space of the Ark’s three decks. This arrangement allows for the maximum amount of food and water storage on top of the cages close to the animals. * from Answers in Genesis.com and it goes on........... hi George!!!

http://answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp I like this site.....

Again, my insatiable curiosity and hunger for God, leads me to more questions. So, what is up with this? In TWI we were taught that the new testament was written in Greek? Why? It was written in Aramaic? How do we know? Why did ol Vic lie? For what reason, or was it just bad research and not intentional? just wondering

Just to answer the animal one................I am sure that when the rain started coming, so did all the animals. Nature is really connected to God, and I am sure they obeyed without delay! It doesn't say that Noah had to go out and find them, just probably had to count and separate all the ones that showed up! I would NOT feel up to catching critters after xxx amount of years building the titanic! Could you imagine Noah trying to hunt down all these animals himself? What a nightmare. God is much more helpful than that. IMO

(((BELLE)))) It's cathartic to get it all out huh? I am glad that your family stuck by you. I am reminded of mine. The whole time that I was in TWI , esp in the beginning, I treated them very bad. Through it all my PA would say "bliss, what would the Way do if you needed $ or if something bad happend to you? Would they take care of you? Just remember, when it comes down to it, your family is the only ones you can count on." I remember defending the ministry all the while knowing deep down in my heart they would NEVER help me out. I would say "we give people the Word, the tools to not HAVE to need $. Oh and nothing bad will ever happen to me!" How immature and naive. But, they stuck by me like glue. Can't say that for some of my "freinds". Now I can look back at that statement and tell my PA, "you were so right!" I think I have a few freinds that would be there through it all, but because of my "lack of affiliations" outside of the Way, I don't have the confidence in anyone yet. (((sigh)))) Stay strong, and leaning on the Lord girl, He will carry you if you let HIM. Great job PAW.

Ditto what Laleo said. Heck, if we are true Christians, then, by all means, you don't judge, you just DO!! Right is right, no matter who the person is. Nobody said it would be easy. Maybe he needs help to get to a place to apologize! We are all sinners, just different degrees. (not to God, only to eachother) I always teach my children, " never be afraid to do what is right! " No exceptions. If we didn't help him, then we are just as bad as TWI. They area afraid to do what is right, because it would expose the wrongs. Lets take the high road on this issue. Thanks Freud for your insight and concern.

George, I agree, using "WAY Theology" to answer these questions, definately doesn't make sense. The true bible never says "you escape blame". It says every idle word will be judged. I believe justice comes from God just like He says it will. He knows a mans heart. I don't worry about what ''other Joes " confess and believe. Most of them are running to Christianity out of guilt, not TRUE REPENTANCE. Which we NEVER truly learned in TWI. It's not a mere "sorry, I did that ". It is a deep recognition, and a CHANGE from the inside. Most people say sorry because, they get caught....not because they abhor their behavior. Therefore, their murders, rapes etc........ aren't really forgiven. Besides, all sin has consequences. Who told you otherwise? If they are truly sorry, then it's God's job to deal with them appropriatly. It's called Grace and Mercy. Something we DON"T deserve. But He did it for us anyway, for LOVE. We are ALL sinners. EVERY DAY. Your words can be used to hurt just like killing someone. SIN is SIN. I choose to do my own business, and not worry about Tom, Dick and Harry and what they are/are not doing to get to heaven. I choose to repent every day, and develop the relationship I had been missing for so long. Whether you want it or not George, I will pray for your eyes to be enlightened again............. peace, bliss

The cross- it's about rememberance......... I have a beautiful one made from Polish potery. It is slowly making it's entrance, from closed door, to china cabinet, to hopefully the wall................ He is Risen INDEED!!!! Let us not forget.

@ 2 years ago, I went to a "new church" for a womens/moms meeting. There, in the foyer, was the most beautiful statue of Jesus washing the disciples feet. There it occured to me, as a leader, I was not willing to wash anyones feet................ above the santuary doors it read "service" "humility"......... I felt as if I had been punched in the stomache. Nobody in a leadership postition lately I knew of, had any of these qualities..........let alone myself. Thus began my search (in heart) for more and for answers. Thank you God for showing me the exit.

Hi NORM. welcome to GS There is much to be thankful to GOD for concerning you getting saved. And that is the point. It is GOD that saved you, it is GOD that worked in individuals at certain times to talk with you, it was GOD that you saw and your Lord Jesus Christ that you decided to believe in. Remember, the Way was a vehicle. God would've gotten to you one way or another. (no pun) The Way's practices as a 'group/religion/cult' what have you, aren't godly. Individuals within, can be. Although through it all, whatever godly intentions most folks had, got sqooshed out. Yes, look around, John Lynn has his own ministry, called CES. peace bliss

TWi has basically dug themselves into a pit and can't climb out of it without looking stupid. So, they will just rehash the same illogic for their debt "beliefs". So there is no "analizing" their thinking, because its a fruitless cause. I was told by an innie this week that they've asked some of the ''lesser'' staffers to go get part time jobs. See, their pay is not on a 'need' basis anymore. Its on a "what degree, what qualifications" do you have basis. So, if you went on staff right out of high school, you are at the bottom of the totem pole, even if you've worked there 10 years. Now, you gotta get "out there" in the world and work. We'll see how long this lasts.

I got wind of a BOT/BOD paycheck from last year.................................. it was 60k a year. Not too shabby considering they don't have a mortgage or much food to buy............ I wonder how much staffers who have been there 10-20 years get?

Update: TWI claims "they helped MSNBC with production, but that they were PICKED!"(we were, we really were) Hmmmmnnn , 29,000$ to HELP a news channel with costs............hahhahahah. this is the response when approached by folks that brought it up to HQ. Seems that some of the Way Corps were UNAWARE of any money paid for this.

?????????????hey who you calling ignorant??????????????????/

I am sorry Lindy, but you are not because you aren't in the ministry. I have so many horror stories about doing ministry weddings, I don't even know how to start.. oh wait, Nate, did you really want "good"' ones? Or was that a "hope"? I will say this, my wedding was great, we had W. Cl@# as our officiant. He was so casual, it was a breeze. And this is while he was a part of TWI. But, I have "organized" and helped many, and they were the worst times of my life, and for the bride and groom. maybe i'll have the patience to tell ya'll some day.............

GOD does the renewing CK, NOT US........................imo

I think Taylor and Chris are TRUE musicians/artists.....................you could appreciate them , really Dmiller.... they so rock! Paris is a true entertainer/singer............... Mandisa too. The mink coat-lol socks- she's cute and fun, and decent voice, and that is what record labels want unfortunately. EXX- don't worry, I got my hubby hooked, and that is a miracle!!! I like Ace, he's cute enough and swooons enough, but he's missing a true "artist" soul. Yamin has a good voice really, but I don't like "watching" him sing. Vanity i know. Same with Chicken little............. I am so with Simon on that one, is this a joke????? He's ridiculous. ok voice, but his whole package makes me want to run away screaming! And I do like the long dark hair girl..............name escapes me.............she's good, she'll go far, but for popularity sake prob won't win.

T-Bone. How dare you get out those books!!!!!!LOL I didn't want to look at them yet, but since you brought it up.................... I would like some clarification on this also. Mark, RAF, Evan?????? Any info on this word PROS? T-Bone, are you going anywhere yet for spiritual learning?

I feel the same way Amazing Grace, I flip flop . I am floored at the reminder of that picture Tbone! I was reading the gospel of John today. NEVER really read it in TWI. What parts I did, was always with the TWI filter ON so I didn't have to "see" any trinity. So reading it today, I'm saying "holy s#@T" I didn't see this before, or it is so clear here, then I go back to well.................. Then I see notes from the way in my bible. (I need a new one) Perspective. If I believe in the trinity, I will see the trinity. If I believe he's not a part of the trinity, I will see it that way. Amazing isn't it? I don't think God cares, as long as we believe in Him and him. Why do we want to define God in Human terms anyway?