bliss

While I agree with you Belle on the ''importance'' of it in regards to real ''gnats''. You know, those Pharasee's were real good at taking maticulous time to make sure every stinken ''unclean'' gnat was picked out of their teeth that had fallen into the wine.......... all the while ''swallowing camels'', like adultery, or not loving people, or drunkenes, or looking the other way when someone was molesting a child........ is what that record Jesus spoke talks about. I don't think ''semantics'' in the Way is the same as the importance it plays when it comes to deafeating the Pharasee's of our day. Without it, you'll still put up with the buggers cuz you think it's ''straining gnats''. Semantics helps determine what is ''bad'' from ''not good''. (or good from not bad) check this out as an example of what I (me only) thinks is relevant to this discussion.... http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrensemantics.html

nice to see you again Allen, if only for that juicy tidbit..................lol

I was a dispensationalist futurist. I think I am leaning towards orthodox preterist.................: http://www.preteristsite.com/docs/maurotongues.html :blink:

Well, Isaih 40 is one of my favorite verses. So, I was anticipating that discussion..........but.......... I don't think what I am about to say is about what you brought up Clay, but, holy cow! I saw something for the first time looking at the printed verses you posted! 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. See in twit world we usually stopped with verse 55. Just to defend their dead are dead position. But, hello, if I only saw and kept reading........................ Thank God we do have the victory through Christ! (it's just me, some things i can read 50 times, and not see it until the 51st time.) :blink: anyway, continue.......................................

I do understand now why they called you at first like that.......what was I thinking??? It is all clear to me now. You USED to be in TWI. That changes how they respond to you. "Sound all alarms, an ol wineskin is back, we need to check his sincerity!" This happend to my fellowship many times. That is why the "big wigs" called you. They have to ''feel you out'', make sure you're not a SPY! Get revelation on you or something to make sure you don't have any ''debil spits'' to bring into the household! Ridiculous! Be glad you left again!

Welcome Sailor, I can't believe how many people called you! Well, I guess I can.... Seems to me having a new person is "unusual" for them lately. Yet another telltale sign of the incredible shrinking way! Glad you are here..................... ps. did you tell anyone you were't coming back? Did anyone call to see where you were? (edited because bliss can't spell latelee:))

Si, muchas gracias Rafael! and lets keep the To Wit Articles around here , that would be mucho bueno!!!

There is a machine you can rent or get from the hospital supply places. It is called a "tens unit". Some insurance will pay for it. It sends electro currents through your skin to help ease the pain. Unfortunately there is nothing to get rid of it.

You are so right T-Bone. So many times we shut off the warning system because we don't trust ourselves. Catcup's article on "Destruction of Self" is a perfect example of what happend/happens in TWI and other situations when you see your inner warning signs as "the adversary". Remember Craig teaching that the first front of the 'enemy' is yourself? Going back to your Playboy analogy.... I have some "innie" friends that to this day, still have a stack of them in their bathroom for all to see. They have had fellowship and teens in their home many times, and do not put them away. I inquired about these many times, because I felt it offensive and just plain wrong to have around when company is there. (Ok, you want to have it in your bedroom between the two of you fine.....not that I agree with that for "other" reasons...................like desensitizing, lust of the flesh, comparing, its not real.......) the look I got or excuse I got was "it doesn't bother us, God made us naked, and we shouldn't be making it a big deal......oh and 'we like the articles'" (oh and these are some of the 'young' believers that are going to rescue the ministry btw) ya ok

Knowing many of these "kids", I know that their hearts are right. Having said that, I also know that they think that TWI's doctrine is RIGHT. Their heart is to "get back the LOVE". I applaud their determination. Unfortunately, its efforts will only produce rotten fruit in the end. Use any analogy you like....................sand foundation is one. Dead roots is another. They are trying to perfume the ministry, because the "practice" is all they see as smelling. They have NO IDEA what poop lie underneath. :(

Yes, J, LCM publically said this in 94! I remember it clear as day. Thanks Highway for the added info, I had forgotten the reaction from others in light of this (like parents!!) I even remember him shaking his head (LCM) as if he was in "deep research" trying to find one verse , just one that said sex "before marriage" is sin. He kept looking around saying "I just don't see it ". YUCK All it did was give more license to the evil that was trickling down from the top br"foot". :evildenk:

Of course none of this pertains to any of the "innies" now! Ask them. I was so thrilled the day LCM announced that sex before marriage was NOT SIN. I was at the Indiana Campus at the time, and so excited about this "new revelation" that I think I danced the jig! It was like," I am free to do this now? No more guilt about it?" Mind you i was no hussy, but the few "love'' relations I had were now a weight off my shoulders. In the latest "SEX" class, I mean ,"Christian sex for boring living" or "family living for godly sex", whatever....................they of course refute that logic saying it is best to wait for marriage. darn It all depends on what time frame of TWI you are in, leadership, area and all as to what TWI really represented. I just stick to God and I as knowing what is best. I don't feel guilt. I also don't agree that sleeping around is ok. If I could do it over again.......................I wouldn't.

A "positive" result yet again, for test B. (((((((sigh))))))) I feel for him. If he's innocent. Either way, he's done. The media fries you and tries you before you can defend yourself. If he's guilty, then ..........@#$%^&&@&%@!!!#@^%$^@!!!#$%^%!!!!!!! I feel better now, thanks. :blink:

Bliss"es" hahahaha Yes, I agree, Rascal. If vPw and lcm could quietly get a "few" more studs to believe this bunk and do it, then, hey, it can't be all that bad! sickos Where's my chocolate???? shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

My peon self will pipe in here and make a comment or two....... If it wasn't for Excie and Dot and others stories about VP, I would probably still be debating whether to "stick it out and see if the love comes back in the Way". thank you :) So, there is a need for it, no matter what the naysayers think. Next, in my personal life...................................yes, I will expose it a wee little bit................... I YELL the more guilty I am! Yup. Example: I tell my kiddos to stay out of the snacks at certain times, or only allowed one or two sugary ones per day.............................. ok, so what am I doing eating 4 chocholate thingies? So, as I am eating enjoyably my chocholate, and I am sneaking it, I really don't want them to know, now do I? Heck NO! So, what do I do when one of them innocently comes around the corner to find me????? I YELL! "WHAT??? I told you to clean your room or something!" I am definately short tempered and quick to lash out...................why???? Cuz I am a guilty mo@#$% fu@#$r! That is why! And I am only talking candy here............................ "Lord forgive me. I am a chocohaulic" think about adultery, lude and crude behavior, spiking drinks, and drinking! Talk about yelling! I can always pick out a guilty bugger now. They are the ones that don't shut up about how "bad" something is. Have you ever met one of those? Craig was a great example in hindsight. They are just covering for their own sins. GOTCHA!

LOL Cool~ I wouldn't be coming back to your door either! belle, you sure they have to buy those magazines? That is ridiculous.

While perusing the latest "Watchtower" magazine that was left on my front stoop this afternoon.................(yes, I avoided opening the door on purpose.........) I noticed how similar the "lingo" and "phrases" they used to describe and teach their beliefs. I was getting a little hot under the collar. I really felt as if I was reading the latest way bag. The title of the first article was entitled "A Sure Guide to Happiness". But the topic was "the dead are dead". :blink: It was weird. It went through all the typical "christian" arguments for folks being in heaven now, and gave it their argument. I think I was reading a ''mini"version of Are the Dead Alive Now. Quote" the effects of death have left them lifeless in the grave." So we got, Jesus Christ is not God from them, and the dead are not alive. Anything else?

wow OM You musta had the best twig ever!! What a great leader you had! Unfortunately, many of us did not. So, although one "heard" not to tempt God, how it was shown and spoken often times was to "believe". I was told by my leadership ............ "TO NOT SAVE FOR A RAINY DAY!" so, for many of us blind followers, it didn't matter what JESUS said, what mattered is what LEADERSHIP SAID. I read that verse a bizillion times, and all it told me was to "not jump off a 10 story building". That is tempting God. Not, "drive to Ohio with no money or food". or "drive through snow and ice and hail to make it to class". These were "believing" endevours!

Just say it ain't so...... That the biggest come back in Tour de France history............................was from "performance enhancing drugs''? I am a cycling fan, and this just upsets me so. I smell something fishy. See the riders have to take drug tests before and after most stages of the tour. So for him to "willingly" take anything, just seems ludicrious. Knowing he would immediately be tested. It is one thing to "dope" or use BEFORE a race, but during is really idiotic. I know pregnancy tests can be wrong, so what about drug tests? He's a honorable menonite man. They said it could be up to 2 weeks for the tests results to come back. It'll be the longest 2 weeks of his life. (aside from the race itself) I am sick to my tummy. I pray that it was a mistake. If someone screwed up or tampered with his urine sample , they should be hung. If he used...................he then deserves (although sadly) to lose his title. He went from the "happiest day" of his life, to probably the worst day.

"Thou shall NOT tempt the Lord thy God" comes to mind now..................... We did read the bible didn't we? I am so guilty of this insanity. :blink:

EWWWWW- i think this is what screwed so many of us up! I would teach this all the time. That ministers are a "terror to evil" not "good". So, they were terrorizing the "good" more and more, so we thought the good was "evil". This is why we treated people poorly or shunned them if leadership confronted them. How basackwards things were/are!!!!!

That last teaching was by "DR "Chris Zona Delivers all the babies in Ohio for TWI.

As a Twig Coord.....uhommm excuse me..............Household Fellowship Coord in the 90's......I used to make lovely ABS charts.... (required) here is a sample: $100 $200 $300 $400 JOE 2/96----------- 3/96-------------- 4/96--------------- 5/96----- (uh oh, red flad, he went down) 6/96----- 7/96---- *****Counciling session***** "Joe, you are not believing enough, why are you not increasing your ABS????" "UHHH, I can't pay my utilities unless I stay at 10%!" "Joe, don't you know that God won't give you revelation if you don't go ABOVE the minumum requirement to be a disciple? You really need to give your believing up there, and give more, then God will bring abundance. Since you brought it up, lets have a look at your debt, budget and spending habits, I bet you are out of control financially!!!!"[/b] You think I am kidding.......... :evildenk

^_^ You took the words right out of my mouth T-bone!

It makes me sick. If they really were a "word/scripture" based "religion, cult, organization" whatever........ then the FIRST thing they should be teaching is to go to GOD first! To be prayerfully minded. That is how God establishes the plans......... I am just disgusted. I cannot post anymore...................