irisheyes

roy, I think sometimes I forget to just go to the Word and re-read it. On Pentecost their tongues were understood. How cool that must have been. How often I forget to keep things simple. Thanks!

I lived next door to a Spanish girl in the Bronx who had two or three sons with the same name (sorry, can't remember the exact #) because they had different fathers with the same name. :wacko: I never knew who she was yelling at. Also, Jose is an extremely common name these days with illegals. Now that I got that out of the way, Sunny: I "facilitate" a bible study in a Methodist church open to any denomination which is based on Methodist teachings. Naturally, we have come upon this problem once or twice, and lots of other similar ones, too. I get so upset about the Catholic bs, and I also get upset that the protestants are so passive, or unargumentative. However, when dealing with this particular group, I have had to ask myself this question countless times: Will it really matter when they stand before God? Does it matter to our salvation if Jesus had brothers and sisters? I always state my belief. I also always state I could be wrong WHEN I can't show chapter and verse. I've been with this particular bunch of people for almost four years now and they are used to me, as I am used to them. However, we are all there to study the Word and learn it and we respect what everyone has to say, but we mostly respect the Word. Sometimes, though, it takes awhile for people to trust it. I've learned so much from them and hopefully vice versa. How long have you been with this group?

CMan: Thanks and hats off to ya. You made it make sense.

Couldn't it be that God had no other way to communicate with the Old Testament guys but dreams or speaking out loud, like the burning bush, the donkey, etc. I never thought about interpretation being tied with tongues in the OT. I thought the "manifestations" were for the Body of Christ which wasn't around back then. To edify the body? If that's wrong, that's a mind blower. Certainly worth another look ....

J: Thanks for the above. Especially liked your comments about protection. Also, that the scripture takes both sides of some very important issues. That is how I feel about death and that I what I am trying to figure out.

AS: I'm glad you like to think! And you do such a good job at it, too. I thoroughly enjoyed your response and agree with it. I never did buy the alcholism, depression, cancer, etc. explanation as devil spirits. Perhaps you were around after I was? I've been done with TWI for some 20 years. I can't even imagine opening up a PFAL book or syllabus or anything. I hardly care except for the fact that I was so duped for so long as so many others. I don't know if you went back and read the beginning of this discussion, but I am trying to write a book on death from a biblical perspective. Mainly, my soapbox is that God gets blamed for so many things that aren't necessarily His "fault." Does my search include stuff I learned so long ago? Yes, as someone recently said on another thread, something about throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I don't think much of anything is either all good or all bad. Same with TWI. Of course, the material I might believe to be correct from there may have belonged to someone who never even saw a green card, huh? Anyway, maybe now we both know each other a little better.

Sun: Don't remember saying it was unfair. I totally agree with you. Thanks for your input. Very interesting.

Oh, no, I pass the torch .... Remember CCR with Bad Moon Rising - sounded like there's a bathroom on the right

WS: You may be entirely right; even if I don't quite understand everything you're conveying. But, when dealing with my wayward son, we talked with a doc who believed alcoholism/drug abuse was a disease because a normal person (like myself ) could smoke a j and get hi and that's about it; whereas, an addict would smoke a j and it would feel more like an orgasm to them than just a hi, making it much harder for such a person to stay away from their drug of choice. That was the only time anyone ever came close to convincing me alcoholism and the like could actually be a disease. Not trying to get way off the topic here, but I totally get what you mean about our complex network surrounding the mind. Also reminds me of another post talking about energy. Our heart actually has electric stuff going on. My friend found out some bad stuff about her husband and had a "heart attack" which required shocking her heart back into the correct rhythm. They said her electric wiring got crossed from the "shock" of what her husband was up to. Me, I'd justa said adios to the loser.

What might that explanation be?

Prison Break?

WS: You need to find a dentist who will give you the gas.

Thanks for the post, Sun. Very interesting-sounds books. And I never heard it quite put that way. Our will will be done. S C A R Y.

Okay! My bad. It's Dylan's "When You Gonna Wake Up" from Slow Train Coming, but I'm not sure about air time. So, try this one on for size: I love you in a place where there's no space and time I love you for my life you are a friend of mine George, remember the song Mandy by Barry Manilow? Someone I knew thought it was Mammy and he was just singing it away. Hilarious. It sure does help to know the words.

TOM: You are so close you are HOT, my man. I'll give it a few hours more, maybe even til tonight. I don't usually get to this this early in the day. Thanks for all your help everyone. This is fun!

Okay, try this on for size, JB: Is there a difference between what you are explaining happened to your brother and say a "fortune teller" or a "hypnotist"? I went to a fortune teller right before I took PFAL and she knew stuff about me, my dad, etc. So, the spirits told her, right? Well, what about hypnotism? Like getting hypnotized to quit smoking or to act like a quacking duck or something? Isn't it just mind control? Couldn't a spirit tell your mind someone's name? Especially while experiencing something like a seizure. You aren't exactly in control. How do you tell reality from un? It just doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me, unless you are referring to being out of your body? I have an aunt who does it all the time. Awake. At least she says she does. What a freak!

What a great point, JB! Of course, TWI taught that if you didn't believe and weren't going to believe, it was par for the course for you to die, you were no better than an animal. That never really helped me feel good about friends I had lost one way or the other, even if they wouldn't be or weren't "saved." First, why call it NDE and not DE? Doesn't the fact the NEAR is part of the equation kind of refute that they were really dead? And isn't that the whole point of what they are saying; that they were dead and this is what happened and then they came back to tell us about it? So why the NEAR? Any clue to that? Kind of an oxymoron almost. And, as far as the devil spirit stuff, I would say it's a plausible explanation. Lots of people dispute their existence. Once you read the gospels, however, don't you wonder where they all went? I mean what do people think? They just disappeared? Maybe they just changed clothes....

CM: As WS said, the terminology is just to make it easier for us to differentiate what we're talking about. Breath life is being used by all of us the same way, I would say. I don't know where your last question comes from? Of course air is real. Has anyone said it isn't? It's difference relating to breath life would be it's not human, imho. And, of course, biblically it is so closely linked with spirit. I'm not sure if you are refutting stuff or adding stuff. Sorry.

Okay, I admit it. I didn't read all the rules and regs. It's 143 pages long.... Anyway, I'm free from the law and I'm sticking to it. Honestly, does this site lay dormant for days or did I screw up and get to out there? I can easily change it. Just let me know.

JJ: Do you think you are here for a spiritual reason? Someone said to me yesterday that she believed we all had spiritual lessons to learn and maybe kids even learned what they had to in utero and that explains infant deaths. Problem with that is it doesn't explain suffering. Babies who get awful diseases...you know what I mean. Or people who die horrible deaths. We can certainly learn a lesson without it hurting, don't ya think? What you said about God taking good care of your family was very touching. I think men and women have a very different mind set when it comes to romance, responsibilities, etc. But, that's just me. Anyway, isn't it something that we don't want to die, for the most part. People want to live. I think that's why death is the enemy. We have a great ability to enjoy ourselves. But once the mind goes, we might as well be dead. I would imagine your "explanation" would be devil spirits, right? Well, someone is right and someone is wrong. Either we go to heaven immediately upon death, or we go when the Lord returns. Can the devil put thoughts in our minds? Well, you ever watch that character John somebody who talks to the dead? He gets some of the stuff right, but not all of it. Apparently, though, he gets enough to get people to pay for him to be on their show and buy his books. Anyway, my gut says we don't have enough information. My guess is we're dead til the lord comes back for us. Have you ever seen a ghost? An alien? A devil spirit? Valid questions. Reasonable answers would be great. Any kind of answer might help us figure it all out.

I don't know about everybody else, but I'm talking about the state of death, not the act of dying. I believe there are probably numerous times that we have been saved from untimely death without our knowing it. I know exactly what you mean as the same thing has happened to me a few times. It made me wonder about the times I may have left the house late because the phone rang or my car didn't start, etc. We are fragile but strong beings, you know. I don't think, however, depression was my reaction. Surprise, maybe. Joy to be alive anyway. Can't say though I've never wished I wasn't. Some days life is a struggle.

JJ: Guess I couldn't get the whole quote repeated. Anyway, all I had ever heard about was the tunnel and the light. I remembered about leaving the body after I read it from you. However, how do we know this stuff is for real and not just dreams? Part of the quote from B&N said there was evidence? Definition? I understand what you said about differences in the brain, etc. and that is really cool. I have never heard of someone coming back after being dead for a few days. That freaks me out. I was always afraid of being buried alive when I was a kid. Glad there's embalming now. Actually, I've told them to make me fish food. But, seriously, does it make you a believer in going right to heaven (or hell)? AS: I never got that impression. Interesting take on it. I certainly still believe(d) that the soul is breath life and the spirit returns to God. It just makes so much sense, especially when it comes to unbelievers in the O.T. Anyway, Paul may have been able to deal with miracles that early on, but later on he couldn't. He had a thorn in the flesh, he had a sick messenger and he told Timothy to drink on for his stomach problems. Not to mention the fact that 11 of the 12 died martyrs.

WS: Sorry about feeling tripped out. How awful that must have been. But, I must admit I LOL about your linen closet. We painted our bedroom a bright easter egg green once and it glowed from down the hall. Hideous!!!

Come on, you're kidding, right? Like the sheriff or somethin?

Did you feel like me when you got out? I felt like I had a paper bag over my head for 15 some years and all of a sudden, it was gone. It took me a long while to be able to trust anything anybody else said, but I finally realized that I needed input. Like 5-Alive. I do fall back on concept/reality, however, especially dealing with the death issue. Seems people who have supposedly "come back" all see the same thing; funny, same with people who are abducted by aliens. Those aliens--they all look the same. You know what I mean? "Uh, I saw a bright light and started to go towards it, but couldn't get there, someone was calling me back...." How come they don't make it all the way and then turn around? I just can't buy the bright light concept as reality. Some people might wish I'd try it out for myself, huh?