irisheyes

But, can you believe some of these words? Old Song. Want the artist? Tell me what to clue ya.

I think WG has it with Maureen O'Sullivan, yes?

Need some more info? Have another Chivas Regal You're 12 years old and sex is legal Your parents don't know where or who you are Great big wars in little places Look at all those frightened faces But don't come here We just don't have the room Love thy neighbor's wife and daughter cleanse yourself with holy water We don't need to bathe We've got perfume

As far as I have studied, there was neither heaven (as we see it today) nor hell in the Old Testament. Those guys didn't even know what eternal life was. Hell was sheol or the unseen state in that Psalm. Jonah 2:2; he cried from the belly of hell (same word). I don't think this was the hell we picture, eternal fire, etc. I resent your implication that you are so much more knowledgeable and we just have to keep on looking. What? You can't share your knowledge?

OM, I should quote you here about the gift certificate, but is it Susan Hayward? If it's not, it's her look alike. Why don't you just give these guys what they want and end all this back and forth stuff? I know you can't possibly really believe it was okay for VPW or anyone else who was married in TWI to have sex with someone else besides their spouse who was married or single no matter if they said okay or not. Seems it wasn't consenting for some, either. Please, that's all they want to know--do you think it's right or not? We are supposed to have our yeahs, be yeahs and our nays, nays aren't we? As for the using other people's materials--I believe part of why people accuse VP of it is because in PFAL he very clearly stated that he threw away all his reading material and God told him He would teach him the Word like it hadn't been taught for 2,000 years. What were people led to believe in PFAL? That VP got direct revelation, right? The snow account? He was special. I'll give you that he stated at other times that he learned alot from other people. He also stated though that he knew alot more than other people: Remember the note from the minister about holy spirit? He wouldn't give that man the time of day. Why? And nothing erases the fact that when an idea was re-written by him and it wasn't footnoted, it was stealing. Why steal someone else's research? To make yourself look good, look smart. To build your ego. I mean, why else? Only problem is when people find out what you did you become lower then low in their eyes. And when people find out you took credit for something someone else said and on top of that you took advantage of someone sexually, and on top of that you berated people and used their money to live the high life, let's face it-- you p*ss people off (to put it mildly). Do you understand where people are coming from? Just because it didn't happen to you, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Did it ever occur to you that maybe someone was trying to help you see that you'd been misled? That you'd been duped along with the rest of us? That is called loved. I still believe you're my brother, man, and I hate to see you walking through life with a paper bag over your head.

Yeah?

Though there is frustration at times while studying the bible, I am sorry you feel the way you do. It seems you pick and choose what verses you are going to believe and that kinda means you have your own religion. Perhaps you are correct, but try telling someone who just lost their baby to cancer that eternal life is present. Sure if we just go to a verse to use it for what we want it to say, then it's easy to get confused. As in TWI. But, there's just so much more to it. We may never have the answers, but I like the safety I feel being around people who want to think like minded. I don't give a hoot about rewards later on, either. But, some homeless guy might really have a problem with you telling him about rewards in the present. Yes, I like how you put it. I run quickly from anyone who thinks they have the answers TODAY. :D Just what are you trying to say here? That we aren't seriously looking into stuff? That we're fighting the truth because we've decided the answers already? Sorry, but I must disagree. I'm on a quest. I don't think God's in hell. I do at times think life is a living hell. I think we have to try and keep it simple and hold onto what we do understand and look into what isn't so simple or easy to understand.

That must be the same church that has the big golden finger on top pointing to heaven (instead of the cross).

Now that is something to sing and dance about!!

COLD. CHILLY. ALASKAN. Nevertheless, a good guess. That show is HILARIOUS!!!

Too funny! Roy, I would think the banning works the way is does with the EZ boards. I would THINK that, but don't know for sure. Anyone?? OM, you are right about what it says. I never read it. My bad. But that surely wasn't the only point I was making. It seems, however, to be the only point important to you. Jean/John: I have a couple in my bible class with the same names. He's 88. She's about 68. He just got diagnosed with altzheimer's. Does any of this sound familiar to you? JUST KIDDING. That IS allowed isn't it OM? I am so glad I didn't witness any of that. I remember a few of VP's outbursts and I was just as horrified then. I guess you were around after I left. Sorry about that, too.

"The wide side's too short. You're gonna look like Lou Costello." "This is a mistake. I don't know how to have casual conversation. You think you're talking about one thing, and either you are and it's incredibly boring, or you're not because it's subtext and you need a decoder ring." "Open doors for her, help her with her chair... " "I have been on a date." "Uh, not since disco died. Comment on her shoes, her earrings, and then move on to D.H.A. : her Dreams, Hopes, and Aspirations. Trust me. Panty-peeler. Oh, and if you need condoms, I've got some." "[sarcastically] Did your wife give them to you? " "Drug rep. They got antibiotics built in, somehow." "I should cancel. I've got a patient in surgery tomorrow." "And if you were a surgeon, that would actually matter. That's a good idea, settle your nerves. Get me a beer too. " "****: No beer." "You're gonna eat before dinner? " [****reaches into the fridge and takes out a corsage]. "This is pretty lame, right?" "I think she likes lame." Oh, the show is current, but I'm not sure about this episode. How'd I do?

Alrighty, I'm game. Give me a little time here.

GSG: I don't think I'd be proud about the shirt deal. Too much information, thank you very much. But, what I really want to know is DO THEY STILL FIT YA?

John's response WAS more offensive and disparaging. Did you see it?! Apparently, it IS okay to say what you feel, just without getting vulgar. The line is drawn at that. Like it or lump it. If you don't like it, leave. I'll be real curious come December 10. I'm curious as to what good name you are talking about, also. And John doesn't need to say nice words, either? He doesn't need to be prayed for, though he thinks he's above the rules? Excuse me, but I think perhaps you are misunderstanding what a personal attack is versus an opinion. People have a right to their opinions. On GS those opinions need to be kept clean. There are certain behaviors human beings have that other human beings can't deal with. I happen to know Danny personally. He is incapable of understanding how someone could hit a woman, or think that behavior is okay. You have said stuff that is beyond his understanding, also. I am not trying to fight his battles, he's quite capable of doing that. I am just trying to perhaps show you the other side of the coin. For the most part, a lot of the people who post here have suffered atrocities at the hands of people in TWI. When someone comes along defending the people who used them and/or abused them, it is a hard pill to swallow. It's a relief to be able to share feelings with people who have gone through similar things and it's a comfort to know you aren't the only one who feels that way. Seems you and John and WTH are the ones trying to make others feel badly or ashamed for saying and or feeling the way they do because you find no faults, at least that you admit to, with what went on. If anything, OM, you are the ones who bait others. Seems you dare someone to fight back. Unfortunately, I don't think you picked your battles too well. If you think your little minority is going to change someone's mind, I think you are wasting your time. I can't speak for everyone, but no one could convince me that God didn't mean no adultery when he wrote the 10 commandments, except it was okay for VP. Anyway, that's it. There's a day to day side to people no one sees on a board. Today is Danny's birthday. He took the day off work to be on the road 8 hours driving to attend a funeral for his brother in law's mother. It probably wouldn't have mattered one bit and would have been totally understood had he not shown up, but that's not the kind of guy he is.

Okay. That was "The One" by Elton John. Here's an oldie for you spinsters: Have another Chivas Regal You're 12 years old and sex is legal Your parents don't know where or who you are BTW, 1986 is 21 years ago!

Okay, thanks for the info. Give me a few minutes here..... You are all alive out there, right? Just asking ....

Gee, I was told the definition was Preach on Sundays and Shop on Mondays!

I don't think I can do this. How do you get all that dialog? TiVo? Can't I just guess and have someone else come up with the words? :huh:

Patrick, Sara and Sun: Interesting conversation. Think about John 3:16: ....that whosever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life." It only stands to reason, therefore, that some will perish, which appears to be the opposite of everlasting life (to me anyway). Just thought about that yesterday. What exactly does perish mean? And, you cannot just erase believes. This verse says everlasting life is conditional. If with our free will we decide not to believe, then our will will be done. (As someone, was it you Sunny?, already pointed out.) I must say I think Sunny has my vote on this. God's got a pretty good vocabulary. I would think He could've worded it differently if it was so. It says somewhere in Romans (I think) that nature alone should bring us to believe and that therefore some are without excuse in not believing. And, Patrick and/or Sara: there is also the idea that there will be some in heaven and some on earth when all is said and done. Obviously, there will be different ways to judge different people.

Man, I'm good, huh? Clue: Two words in title. Two words in artist. Ha. Circa 1993.

WS: Amen, bro. I too left around 20 years ago and am just hearing some of this stuff. We (my husband and I) were on staff at HQ in 79-80. He was aware of lots of bull even back then. I took the class in '71, so know where you are coming from. Many of us were sincere, hardworking people who loved God and wanted to do what we thought was right. Yes, I, too, taught stuff that I realized later was way wrong, but did try to talk with people I felt responsible for/to. I'm sure there were others I never got to. I didn't drift away, I walked away with my eyes wide open after what my husband and I thought was the most ridiculous thing we ever heard (Geer's manifesto). I often wonder what ever happened to our generation, not just lost believers. Sure we were idealistic, but not all of us sold out, so how come the world is in such a mess today? Anyway, we had no one to complain to. When we walked we had to start our lives from scratch. Yes, I know, I'm ! Anyway, just wanted to bond with ya some.

Though I have nothing new to add, I must say that this thread made me cry. It's healing for me to be able to read how other people overcame TWI and can actually joke about it. I love that! I have often wondered what I would do if someone who hurt me from TWI showed up on here. I guess it would depend on who it was and what they had done. I can't honestly say I wouldn't want to tell that person what I thought of them, but I think there are only a few I'd feel that way about. Most of them I feel the utmost pity for. Not as much though as their victims. I guess it was Roy who ultimately got me to cry. But, I can't help but wonder who johniam or wth really are? I may never know, but johniam should know that Danny has a wife and she just might believe in clocking someone ugly to her man!

Didn't check back until just now. How's this: For each man in his time is Cain Until he walks along the beach And sees his future in the water A long lost heart within his reach Kinda easy, I know.

WORDS, The Bee Gees