irisheyes

Didn't think you were having a pity-party, either. First Christmas without my brother, so I understood straight away. I guess we all need to realize people may and probably are going through things we are clueless about.

How sad for you doc. You have no hope. Do you read and/or post thinking maybe someone will get the right point across for you? Let me see, are you of the opinion that a tooth, one tooth and all its intricacies (sp?) evolved from one cell? :(

Hey doc, ever hear you reap what you sow? I read it in some dusty old book and guess what, it happens. Also, in that same old book are all these magnanimous promises and explanations and soothing words and even fighting words. But, they'd be wasted on the likes of Hussein.

Hey Doojable, Just a little clarification here. Don was a Wierwille. Wanda was Don's wife. There were five Wierwille children altogether. Don and two other girls and Sara and JP. Don had a doctorate in education. Education! You can bet your salary he knew about footnotes. Personally, I think VPW intimidated them too. Don wasn't even part of the ministry for a long time and then all of a sudden he was on the Board. We are talking farmers here. For a guy from a farming family to get a doctorate in ANYTHING was a big deal. Don's doctorate was legit. VPW's was not. Ever here what VPW's thesis was on? I never did. I thought I knew Don pretty well (I even liked the man), but it just dawned on me after all these years that of course he knew what his father was up to! One of the main reasons I left the ministry was that Passing of the Patriach cut Don down soooo badly, I just couldn't justify VPW leaving a legacy like that to his own son. Where was the love of God in that? I smelled a r a t. Anyway, it didn't sound like you had the kid-stuff right. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!

And keep trying to know and understand more. I am still amazed when I glean even a little bit more light into what is written. Sometimes I actually wonder if God is working in me! Can you believe that? I had gotten to the point of wondering if I was even saved!

Perhaps this doesn't matter too much, but I sure am glad I only have to stand in my shoes before God and not someone else's. I often wondered how some of these so-called "leadership" of TWI looked at themselves in the mirror. I no longer wonder because I no longer care. I am only responsible for what I do and did. I could get real petty here, but I don't think that's too cool either. We often learn by example and sometimes that example is wrong. Therefore, we learn what not to do. If ANYONE thinks ANYONE has "rightly-divided" the Word 100%, they should have their head examined. Get real, people. If we can't understand how nature works, how our small minds work, how an eagle flies, how can we possibly expect to understand the Word God MAGNIFIED above all these things????

doojable: Thanks. I figured it had probably already been brought up, but didn't have time to read it all. So, if that's not the question, what is? Seems a lot of back and forth arguing that is too hard to follow ....

Excuse me! I realize I am just jumping in here but doesn't ANYONE remember "I threw out all my other reading material and just read the Word"? How he poured over the Bible for hours, days, months, years? How he wouldn't even talk to a minister about the holy spirit because he already forgot more than that man would ever know? (Straight PFAL). Our choice is usually between good and best, not right and wrong. Unfortunately, in my lowly opinion, he chose between right and wrong and was dead wrong taking credit for other people's work.

Ex Very true. During that corpse week When poopoo was read my feeling was that hq was a dagerous place to be at. So i comiteted the unforgivable sin. I got up and left and have never been back.

1 more vote for one that had ears open. They said it oldies. And you was not there. I know that for sure.

Perhaps this is off the main topic, and it's probably been hashed over hundreds of times by now, but, templelady, how does your above answer fit in with we are not saved by works?

Hey Goey, I know you and you know me! Ha! Good to see you. Hope you are doing well. What about Michael? I know there's no "pat" formula, but it just seems that something so vitally important should be easily understood. Anyway, it seemed like that's where this thread was "swaying." I am still open on being "saved" in the Old Testament, too. A big kiss your way . . . .

Hey Raf, And just what your plans for the weekend?

Belle, we didn't get an answer to your question, but I agreed with you for what it's worth. Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes if I did. Just stating how I felt. :blink:

Hear! Hear! I would really like to hear what Allan and everyone else's "formula" for eternal life is. Also, I would like to pose this question: Did the Old Testament "believers" believe in eternal life? Was it important to them? How were they "saved." Are they saved? Is all that in abeyance until Revelation? I mean the guys who have already lived and died; i.e., Moses, Joshua, David, Samuel, aren't they saved? We started discussing this at Bible class today and I guess I just never thought of it before or I forgot if I did and a quick glance at the concordance seemed like there wasn't too much to find on the topic. :huh:

that's what I'm talking about Belle!

I mean REALLY!!! We have probably been lied to more than most people in the world ever even think about! Let's face it. We know if we look fat in those pants...the answer is yes, no matter what you may say. (Had to get that in first.) I got my degree at Pike's Peak? I saw snow at the gas station (forgot the month)? I went to the race track? I forgot more than you'll ever know? We bought the lies, the arrogance, the temper, the hurt, the grief, the guilt and guess what---I don't really care how you think I look in my jeans. So there! ;)

Mark: I must say at first I was annoyed that you presumed I wanted help, but I read your reply and was really impressed. Of course, I had to get over feeling like I was sitting in a Corps meeting first. Nevertheless, have you studied Greek and/or English? If you don't mind my asking? The thing that hit me most was what you said about practice sessions. To think that I used to tell people that crap about running through the alphabet to "broaden" their sounds, etc. Shame on me. Did I have a paper bag over my head or what? Evan kind of hit the nail on the head for me, though. I also truly believe that God works in us much more than we know. I'm in a Bible study where we read Esther this week. Big to do about God not being mentioned in that book, but then there's Bullinger who shows L-O-R-D and D-R-O-L four times and I-AM once, written acrostically. Was not God hidden from His people by their own selves during that time? And, I believe it's that way a lot of times today. However, God's not hidden from those of us who look diligently for Him, just as he wasn't from Esther and Mordecai. And to ruin what was otherwise wonderful reading, whoever you are Thomas Loy whatchamacallit-- WHO CARES??? You think you are so wonderful because you think you are so wonderfully poetic or something? You so poetic you can write an acrostic? Don't you see who you sound like? You sound like VPW and if I were you, I'd be scared, very scared. I would have let it go, but perhaps someone will open yours eyes. :blink:

I used to have such guilt about never thinking I received revelation and all these "heavies" around me where hearing from God left and right. A long time ago I had to convince myself that my getting to heaven didn't depend on SIT or revelation or anything but confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead. I won't change someone's mind about SIT if they believe it's right or wrong. I'm glad so many people have their minds made up on that point! It just seems obvious that either way, the presentation was wrong. The pressure was wrong. How I hated (and still do) being put on the spot about ANYTHING! All 9 all the time! What a joke. Who walked around SIT and interpreting ALL THE TIME? If you want to know what I think, I think that the claim to SIT all the time was a way to control our brains to not think about anything else, like perhaps God wants us to be comfortable in our own skin?????

Great topic Hammer! Now for my 2 cents. Anyone ever consider the fact that Adam and Eve were told hands off the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but NOT the tree of life? The cherubims were sent after Mr and Mrs were thrown out to KEEP THE WAY OF THE TREE OF LIFE. Perhaps this is HOW they stayed alive? Once they were taken away from this life-giving source, of course they would die! It picks up in Rev. 22, but only talks about the leaves of the tree of life being for healing. Of course, if we are healed of every disease, what would kill us anyway? Oh, dear, I forgot the question! :( Oh, yes, is man born dead spiritually? A real can of worms there, pal. What about cultures where Jesus just isn't all that? Is it just the luck of the draw that we got born in America, while some other slob roams the caves thinking about how to blow us up? What about Nicodemus? You must be born again? :blink:

Psuedo: I'll watch it just so you get some sleep. Promise! IE

Belle, I've read your stuff since I started, but read some really awesome stuff you wrote today. I think it was you who said we just never did enough for twi. ain't that the truth? I hate when that happens! Would you believe I've never sat through Gone with the Wind from beginning to end? Nice to finally meet you!

Mark, I was referring to Philippians 2, just didn't have the time to stop and look it up. Hey, do you type all that stuff or do you copy it from somewhere? Whew!! It is a good point, huh? Consider this: Our temptation today is to make Jesus a savior we can be comfortable with. We were studying Matthew 3 and how John the Baptist went after the Pharisees, quoting their bloodline, etc. We can quote whoever we want, say whatever we want, believe what we want. But, if we really repent our lives will bear fruit. We repent unto something. That something is, or should be, to live as Christ lived. In Chapter 11 of Matthew, John the Baptist actually sends two of his men to ask Jesus if he really is the one who was to come. Why? Because he wasn't the savior they expected. They expected a political leader, a king, someone to restore the kingdom to Israel. They just weren't comfortable with a man who spent the majority of his time with the sick, blind, lame, etc., all of whom were considered sinners. They were considered lame because they sinned and therefore God took His protection away from them. Remember the account where Jesus healed the man born blind and they asked who sinned? Him or his parents? That's why they thought he was blind--because of sin. Silly, huh? How could a newborn sin. So, it had to be his parents. But, they wouldn't own up to it. Why? They'd be downcast. That's who Jesus hung with. The downcast. The dregs of society. At least today we know we are ALL sinners. Sickness or not. We can't be comfortable if we're in pain, suffering, etc. But let's face it. There's all kinds of pain. You never know who you are standing next to and who you can help by living the love of God. There's broken legs and broken hearts. Things we see and things we don't see. :blink:

Hammer, How many crowns can one head hold anyway?

This thread is priceless! Just read it for the first time. Linda Z (if I wasn't a girl I'd say) you're the girl for me. ;)