BluzieQ

I don't have dreams or flashbacks, really. But I do have what I'd describe as mild panic attacks now and then when I feel like religion is being shoved down my throat in some way. Of course, there's nothing to *really* panic about in these situations, but it's like I'm transported back to this feeling I had as a kid of being totally trapped and forced into thinking a certain way. The worst was during my parents' recent visit, when I'd walk out on the porch and see my dad reading Way books. My heart literally pounded and I felt clammy, ill and short of breath. A few times I had to walk back in the house, go off by myself for a bit and compose myself. When I told my boyfriend of these physical reactions, he couldn't believe it. He was shocked it affected me that deeply. It was totally irrational. I guess you could say it was a flashback, but more like a flashback of feelings. I've had a similar, but much less severe reactions other times. For example, while sitting in a Catholic church once. And another time, when I ran into a sweet-seeming elderly neighbor on a walk, and as we were walking, she started pressing me really hard to come with her to church. I told her that I have my own beliefs and I'm very happy with them, thanks but no thanks. And she started pressing me really hard, prying and prodding and trying to guilt me into offering to give her rides to church and attend services with her, then hinting that I'd go to hell. I was utterly creeped out, she started to seem evil and I was on a walk so I had no immediate escape. It's happened a few other times too when religious stuff has come up. BluzieQ

Oh my gosh CoolWaters, are you serious? That is sickening & horrible. But good for your little daughter for fighting back and good for whoever taught her to do so. johniam - I knew it was too good to be true to hope you'd left this thread and weren't coming back. Sigh. You storm into a thread shooting your mouth off about something that has nothing to do with the original topic, offend and insult a bunch of people, then you're suprised when you come back and people are still talking about you. This is ridiculous. I'm done posting to you. BluzieQ

Linda Z, That was such a nice thing to say. Thank you. I have noticed the same about most of the posters here. So many people have interesting things to say, and everyone's so articulate and even-handed. Very good group. And I agree with you about diazbro's posts - excellent. Bluzie

Johniam, It doesn't take a degree in psychology to see that you need serious help. You go on sexist rants about women getting out of control emotionally but you're the only on on this board who's ranting and raving like he's about to bust a vein. About misrepresenting, how 'bout I post my comments and we'll see that you're actually the one misrepresenting or lying about previous posts (just like the "serpent" ... ooooohhh): Johniam wrote: "You're the one who started posting this racist/sexist crap. But you're too much of a coward to admit it. You say I wasn't abused in TWI because I'm a white male. Pllllease!" This was my original post you're referring to: See that? It says: "I'M NOT SAYING ADULT HETEROSEXUAL MALES WEREN'T ABUSED IN TWI...JUST THAT THE DOCTRINE GAVE THEM MORE POWER IN THE HIERARCHY." Also, I never mentioned race initially. Someone else brought that up. If you don't like my posting about the sexism that I, as a female, suffered in TWI as I had to sit there and listen to sexist teachings telling me I should "submit" to some man and that some guy is the "head of the household" (puh-lease!!!)then that's just too bad. Because I am going to talk about it, among other things. That's why I'm here. Talking *about* sexism that one has endured is not sexist. Talking *about* racism that one has endured is not racist. But it's convenient for you, as a part of the most privileged class in society to say so, isn't it? Also, speaking of sexism and racism, I've rarely read more bigoted or offensive posts than yours anywhere. I feel very sorry for your daughter. Oh, and speaking of misrepresenting, one more thing. You wrote that I said that the PFAL book said that every man of god is perfect - it wasn't the PFAL book. It was a book called Living Victoriously, which my dad was reading. And, no, I know no such thing. I just know what the book said. BluzieQ

No, actually. I'm trained in self-defense so I can deal with creeps like you who think it's okay to hit a woman "if she deserves it." (Or rape her, assault her, whatever.) I'm certainly not afraid of whiny, fat bald white men who have to resort to getting up in people's faces in grocery store lines to try hide hide their own (glaringly obvious) FEAR and insecurity. Johniam, your posts just drip with fear, thinly veiled as anger. You seem terrified that some mysterious "other" is gonna try to take away something of YOURS. Get over it. Truly strong people don't need to behave like bullies and throw tantrums to try to intimidate others. BluzieQ

Hi Belle, Good questions ... My situation is maybe a little different since I was raised in TWI, but I had the anti-church stuff drummed into me just the same. I remember once in high school my best friend (who was Catholic and had a beautiful voice) sang at her church and she wanted me to go with her sometimes to hear her sing and just hang out. I remember getting into some conflict with my parents about my going - they didn't try to stop me, but there was this very wary "watch out" kind of tone to what they said (I wish I could describe it better ... but the same tone they used if I mentioned a friend using tarot cards or doing seances ... it was basically anything that's not The Way is daaangerous and scaaaary, but we're not going to stop you, we're just saying be caaaareful). Anyway, I remember feeling uncomfortable the whole time I was at her church because of all my parents warnings ... it almost felt like I was somewhere evil (the rituals really creeped me out), even though I didn't really believe it deep down. After college (Way recovery)I was leery of anything having to do with God, church, Christianity - anything. Wanted nothing to do with it. Even today I get very, very uncomfortable being in a traditional church (not because they're not enough like the Way but because the Way made me uncomfortable with anyone who believes they know the truth and their faith is the corect one). Anyway, I still consider myself to be a spiritual person and I've wanted to find some place where I can go, doesn't have to be a church. I have found two places I can go that I feel fine in ... one is the Unitarian Universalist church because they don't tell you what to believe and they believe all beliefs are equally valid, though I have to say the services feel a little hippy dippy to me, if that makes sense. But it does feel like a place I can go to reconnect with the spiritual side of life. Then there's Quaker meeting. I took a little quiz once where you answer questions about your spiritual/religious beliefs and it tells you which faith you align with most closely ... I turned out to be a liberal Quaker. I probably wouldn't have sought out Quaker meeting on my own, but my boyfriend was raised as a liberal Mennonite and he didn't find a Mennonite church here he likes, so he started going to Quaker meetings. I occasionally go with him. It's just very down to earth - a half hour of silence (which is kind of like meditation or communing to me) and then if someone feels moved to get up and say something, they do. No one preaches, which I like. The people are all salt of the earth and very concerned about social justice. I feel really comfortable there and always feel uplifted for the rest of the day after I go. I need to go more often... BluzieQ

Definitely the most fun part of being in the Way as a kid. To me it just seemed like a big fun festival. I loved the camping out part and music and the craft demos - that was cool. I still have a little glass turtle I got there from a glass artist... Wish I would have been old enough to make it to the teen orgies (ha!) BluzieQ

Um, maybe to play well with others?

Hey vickles, No need to apologize :)--> I think you made some good points (I think seeing a parent act like a screaming hothead in a grocery checkout line can't send a child any kind of message I'd want to see sent to a kid.) Anyway, you didn't derail the thread... BluzieQ

Scary. Really, really SCARY.

Diazbro, That was a great post. Thanks for speaking up - that needed to be said. Yep. Sad, but true. I wonder if johniam will respond. Or maybe he's off at a board meeting somewhere giving himself a raise... BluzieQ

Hi Wayfer Not! Thanks for the welcome and for sharing your story. Whoa - 20 years! I'm glad you finally saw the light :)--> And that you're getting over Waybrain. It sounds like you've made a lot of progress... Amen to that! And thank you for posting! BluzieQ

Hey Nandon, I just wanted to say I'm sorry you went through all that with the Way. What a disturbing story. How awful they would do that to your family. I can see why you feel the way you do... Bluzie Q

Thelema, Very well said. My feelings exactly! BQ

diazbro - the Whiteside book sounds interesting ... thanks for explaining it. Johnny Lingo - Thanks for your post - very interesting and heartfelt story. I wish I had more time to respond but am on my way out of town for the weekend. (Camping trip.) Have a wonderful weekend! LearnedTooLate - Hi! Thanks for your post and encouragement! I think that's a great idea! I wonder if there are enough of us. More later when I get back in town .... BQ