alfakat

yes, mo, see what you are saying...I guess maybe TS is right--I still think there was some serious fog but lcm was writing stuff down by Bic-lighter light, all the time... ok, I can go with that...

what I did not know in 85-89 was how deep the error ran, how high up it originated or just how damn long it had been going on. I initially thought cg must have been near the mark because many problems he noted did, in fact, exist and the bot sure acted liked whipped curs so I figured vic's reproof, delivered by cg, musta been near the mark. HAH!! I NOW know that Poop was in fact, a serious whitewash of ANY responsibility on vpw's part for the shambles twi was in because of his tyrannical centralized control of twi and his inability to manifest any personal self-control when it came to his own over-desires. This legacy was passed to lcm, who warmed slowly, but surely to his teacher's example and soon he was swingin' just like vic.... every cause has an effect, every effect a cause, eh, bible fans?? Raf--your comparison was particularly apt, I might say....

see, TS, dats what I'm talkin about!! he did not get cold and calculating til very late in that 3+ year period--he just did not have it in him for a long stretch....

Moving the Word in this context is running PFAL classes, preaching the Word, teaching, fellowshipping, praying, etc., all the stuff we did in TWI that was godly. and did that happen in the next 3 years to offset the debbil spurts from cg??? or did it lead to more control, homo witch hunts, lcm and the magic zipper, on and on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum..... how come it did NOT right itself, om?? care to hazard a guess????????????

INDEED, cool waters, indeed!! IT was ALL f-ed up, top to bottom, both sides and in the middle, too....

might I just throw in here, as an aside, that some places had leaders who tryed to influence people very heavily and others did not. I was in CA at the time and while Doug Seed did get fired and was involved to a certain extent with cg, I did not find him to be on a crusade. Others may report a different experience here in CA. I initially thought cg had some insight into how things had gotten so f-ed up; later on I began to be more and more aware that the problems were deeper than lcm, dew or haa could possibly have caused. Before cg even did his class, i began to see signs that others were elevating what he said and taught to the same level previously reserved for vic and then, after 81 or so, as they began to worship lcm's words as well. At that point, bells and sirens went off and I began to distance myself from those who needed a "new apostle" to glom onto... "what's your point, alfakat??" you are all saying...well, I did not know much in 84 or 85, i knew some by 86,87,88,89---and I know a hella lot more in the last 5 or 6 years. PLUS, look at some of the friends i have re-discovered---I talked to Hope on the phone a couple years ago for an hour or more. We probably hadn't talked so long since we were in 6ckkthppth kork together. And I am still learning....

ROR--I have learned things I was not aware of during just the last week here at GSC. I heartily concur with the lesson....

I cannot agree with that, MO. He was a freakin' ZOMBIE for at least a year and a half to two years of that time, alternately withdrawn and depressed and full of anger and combative. I would say only during the last 6-9 months did he begin to come out of it and begin to formulate his plans. This is based on my first-hand observance and the testimony of some of my closest friends who witnessed the full 3+ years up close and personal. Ask catcup; ask TheEvan...

See, the problem here is that if we take ole craggers letter at "face value" as om loves to do with everything he has already made up his mind on, it does "seem reasonable". WAKE UP, FOLKS! Life is NEVER, EVER, EVER just about "face value". It ALWAYS involves sub-text(listen up, om) and is obviously dependent on who you were listening to, who they were listening to and understanding that there will ALWAYS be more to the story, as so many here have testified in the last 5-6 years. As it turns out, POP told some of the story from a very slanted view. Much of it hit home higher up or lcm, dew and haa would not have become the vegetables they did for 3+ years. Was it the truth, all the truth and NOTHIN' but the truth??? hardly BUT neither were lcm's rantings against cg or anyone else, such as jal or rd. Turns out that we got just what should have happened; twi was NOT built on THE WAY but on someone's petty ego. What happens to a house built on sand, om??? When the storms came, how did twi hold up?? was lcm "right"?? was vic??

there is some comparison in the two movies, yes, wth. Care to favor us with the contrasts, which, with a little critical thought, might appear to be far greater??? Hardly what I would call a balanced review, wth.....

connect the dots, om--DID the way get BETTER as a result of lcm's demands or worse??? DID he and the BOT get their .... together as a result of ridding themselves of the "unbelief" of all the "salt that lost it's savor" or did they go down the drain themselves?? simple question--relatively short time-frame and the way is as out to lunch as could be....connect the dots--this stuff did not occur in a vacuum. Were his demands in his letter something that led to Godly results or no??? things happen for a reason, om--think about it for once...

so, OM, after good ole boy-loy tossed all us "as-sholes" out, why don't you tell us how MUCH better it got from 90-95 with homo witchhunts and the rest...now, get honest--who was mas muy f-ed up?? me and JL and VF and EB or your precious BOT?? speak up, OM--can't hear you.... how come you left if it got SO MUCH better with all us spurtchal sluggards finally gone??? huh,??? speak up...

That also describes the letter I got, JL--cept I never was ordained by twi, so there was not the obvious disrespectful krap he flung at you in that light. But my letter matched yours in every other regard. My reply to his letter at the time was something on the order of "I have never been asked this type of question during my whole time involved in either the corps or in twi--why, biblically, should I at this late date, answer it now??" I received NO personal reply, just the same basic rant JL got... I guess I was already somewhat removed before that but that definitely slammed the door....

I remember reading VF's letter in reply to lcm--not one thing in it about his decision to "stand with" cg. I am not aware of VF ever publicly declaring himself "for" cg. Your understanding of events seems a tad skewed, om. Guess you ended up happy with "choosing" lcm, eh??? I also received the letter rascal did--it came some number of months after the salaried staff and corps received -- perhaps 2, maybe 3. At this point, lcm had received mostly unfavorable replys so he was a bit more "blunt" in the letter to the rest of us "volunteer" kork grads. So perhaps you now know the rest of the story, om.....

keep making the size smaller--it will say in the area where it says "New Photo(not saved)"; just get it down a little smaller. You will have to keep playing with it and you will get it. After you have saved a bunch the wrong size, keep the one you want and delete the rest... :D-->

no, vickles, just make em whatever size you like--say 50k for GSC or I normally go 60-90k if I am emailing. You "save as" in step 4 to somewhere on your hard drive(My documents, My Pictures, some other folder) and give it some other name than it already has -- like "same name 1" instead of "same name" or something like that. Just play with it; it's pretty simple....

heh,heh--heh,heh...TheEvan said "bouffant troglodytes"...heh,heh

hey, jfreaky, try this easy resize program...it's free, too. Find Photo Resizer here: Download Photo Resizer get the free version--it is real easy!!

Bingo, socks---NOTHING was EVER vic's fault!! It was Always something or someone else...hence CG blaming everything and everyone 'CEPT vpw for the failures in da way.....

Amen and AMEN, herbie---if I was still in da way, I might say that someone was using people and loving things....if I was SO convinced of MY product, I would start my own website....

God wants me to prosper... Satan wants me to prosper... I am everybody's pal... Oldiesman-- I SALUTE you, MAN!!! that was one of the best posts ever on this board!!!! I have to clean off the monitor on that one.... :D-->

engine rob, u be thinkin of someone else. Neva was in NoCal, Santa Clara county from at least 82-86 and was not married then... you are thinking of a girl in the 14th kork, can't remember her name who was in Australia her interim year and ended up in Guam where she married a local....

and who might the arbiter of that be??? hmmm, anyone?? Beuller?? anyone???

-----------------blissful silence-----------

Mike, Mike, Mike...-- I have studied the "unreliable tatters and remnants" concerning the methods and tactics of LJC and his communication unto men. I do not see your methods as lining up with his...sorry, your message and methods just do not line up...I suppose you will blame that on my immaturity, my reliance on "tatters and remnants", my ego, my old nature, my failure to get "born-again" of Christ-formed-in-you" or some other of a thousand and one excuses,er, reasons... I would say you have failed here, Mike---- after a year and 4 months and 2700 or so interminably long posts---it Just is NOt working....no crowds of enraptured followers, no disciples, no apostles, none of it.....WHY???????? ps that question was RHETORICAL...no answer expected....