alfakat

Well, catcup--I am sure some might see you that way... but I believe that even those who I have been in disagreement with on this thread would see that life is a two-way street--not "all" are always the way the some have been perceived. TWI attracted it's share of jerks; some went WOW, some went in the corps and some stayed right where they were for 25 years. As Al said, the good, the bad and the ugly....

I agree completely. On another thread I used the term monolithic; i was not referring to the process in which twi was built but rather the "face" of twi--it was not monolithic but very dependent, esp. the farther back in time one goes, on who the individual was. Group think was pushed more and more, esp. after lcm came in outa da fogg and ordered loyalty by all the gruppenfuhrers, er, way korks......

CW--NO question, as the years went by, more and more that was the ideal being turned out... There were plenty of those types, by my knowledge, in the 1rst through 10th corps(the ones that I knew rather well) but there were very significantly MORE who did not buy into that ..... Now, how they changed as the years went by, I certainly cannot say. But the rebel crowd I ran with did NOT display those "lcm wannabe" tendencies...and if you did, you would have been subject to bronx sarcasm, mockery and derision...

quote Galen: "Again these were just my impressions, gathered from years of dealing with 'C' grads. In my mind (as well as within other's minds) they did tend to fit into a common stereotype. Obviously I missed a great deal, by not having worked with you personally. No doubt I would have seen an entirely different side of TWI." if you are not laying on the sarcasm here, then the answer to that is a categorical YES and there are dozens of others that I know PERSONALLY, by name and for years in which your experience would have been the same. If your blinders will allow you that possibility... another quote by Galen: "Each different place that I was stationed or lived, I usually ran a Twig. It worked out such that breifly in '83 we were within a branch, and again in '95-'97. Though most of the we were not within any branch. Living here for a few years, then moving, over and over. We could usually find beleivers whereever we were and piece together a fellowship. But none of that had anything to do with Corpse. When we did need materials, was generally the only dealings that we had with them, usually on the Limb level. My understanding has been that when sent out into the 'field' most of them were sent to limbs, and they remained within the local area around that limb office. So obviously most areas in the nation where I could possibly be stationed, there was on presence of them. "Just consider that these people involved in such things were not representative of the masses." Okay, but wasn't that 'them'?" NO, you are mis-informed completely in the manner, pre-89, in which assignments were given. Most of the corps was sent whereever, and most NOT stuck at/around the limb. Most were twig/branch coordinators--the vast majority. I personally know hundreds that were. And, yes, I knew their names...

Galen--we do not know each other, except by this board. My complaints with your words come from the brush with which you, by implication(you DO understand that concept, I trust) tar ALL corps. A group that, as a whole, corps one through 23 or whatever and all the family corps, could not have been less homogenous if it had been planned and purposed that way. When you "smear" your "over 100" in "over 18 years" and however many locations in wayworld, you smear me, you smear my sisters(who have never hurt a fly in all their lives), you smear friends of mine who spent years, at their own expense, moving all over God's creation and never got paid one thin dime to do what they did. Now, the years post-89 I cannot speak to--others eloquently can and have. The way and the corps became progressively more and more a den of theives and liars, from the top down, of course, and with NOTABLE EXCEPTIONS, a number of whom frequent this board. My issue is the EASE with which you dismiss thousands of people you do not, and most likely never will, know at all. If you are happy with that kind of "less than love of God" thinking, you go your merry way, sir. But this is a public board, more or less, and I publicly object to your sentiments. When you tone down your hypebole and admit that you undoubtedly did not even know a fraction of those hundred more than a passing moment's worth, YOUR WORDS will carry FAR more weight.

Diazbro--would you mind telling us time frame and, if you can, location where you were? Time frame would definitely say a lot....

hey, what about the pebble in the guy's shoes that might lay any of us low, as well... I would not be so quick to judge those in need, no matter what appearances say...

Really, Galen, your reply borders on the disingenuous. Of course you insult me and others I know when you sweep with your generalities--by your count, over 100 and only 4 you find "acceptable". Nice ratio... were these your words?--"Corpse members were certainly a varied bunch. In my limited experience, the over-whelming majority of Corpse were mean nasty a$$holes." What conclusions would anyone draw from that statement??---- "I have probably seen 100 corpse over the course of 18 years, between my wife and I, we can count how many we ever knew the names of on the fingers of 2 hands, of those 4 turned out to be nice. (I am hesitant to say ‘loving’). In limb meetings, at limb offices, etc, I have seen and dealt with many more green name tag wearers, who I never knew their names, but were less friendly than a scorpion in my shorts." If I am unfriendly, what about you??? You come off highly judgemental and prejudicial and you cannot understand why that would offend me?? You act much more dense than I have reason, by your other posts here, to believe. ""You do not like that about ME, fine. Period." I dont think that I ever said I did not like you. Did it sound like I said something negative about you? I dont know you, how could I have insulted you so mortally? There were people who acted poorly, they treated others very badly. I saw it, and it brought dis-honour to Christainity. Did that include you? I have no idea. I dont know you. If I simply speak the truth of what I have seen and done, how should it bring such offense to you, a man I dont know. You even think that I dis-like you personally. Ooops."---- My statement was suppositional, based upon YOUR prior statement--ya know, all korks are a-holes, mean, nasty, dog-kickers, whatever...I figured you would most likely be lumping me in there, considering YOUR over 100 to 4 ratio, in YOUR OWN stated experience. Did I mis-read you ?? .... or are YOU mis-reading me, lumping me in with your prior experience?? not to mention many friends of mine over the years, who also don't fit your stereotype.... here is another statement of yours, Galen--thanks for thinking that I "might" be human--no pre-judice there...sheeesh "I could agree with that summation. I dont recall ever being within a twig that was led by a corpse person, but I do recall hearing that there were some corpse who were just Twig-coordinators. On the few occassions that I was traveling and found myself in a 'heavily populated area' (meaning a city with dozens of corpse living in it), it did seem that the 'lower' corpse were much nicer and could even possibly be considered human. Almost as human as a regular beleiver. So it would be a reasonable idea that the 'nasty / evil / boot-licking / a$$hole' characteristics may have been painted on thicker as a person climbed higher up the ladder."

Galen: I said what I said. You are tarring with a wide brush. Period. Find the word shallow in what I said. I said you don't know what went on and you speak like you do. Period. I WILL NOT speak to the Submarine Service; THAT is my WHOLE point, capiche???? I was not there where you were-- how could I?? I find your manner offensive, Period. You do not like that about ME, fine. Period.

Galen--you were very obviously burned by corps people. Fine. However, your extrapolation out to the whole 3,4,5000 or so is unwarranted and your age and experience in life should tell you that I should not have to tell you this -- you know better. Do you want me to start disparaging U.S. armed services people with the same prejudice you are showing?? You are a better man than this and more honest so please take off the blinders you have put on... Now, because I was in the corps, are you going to rail on what I just told you and call me evil??? And come on, gdamn it, vic was in charge--and in ways you CANNOT possibly know about, because you were not there and I, and others, was/were... will you listen to me spout off about the Submarine Service, Galen??? will you??? really???? c'mon, get honest--you know you won't!! as my old man always said, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander...please let me know if I need to explain that....

WAY-BOT/BOD to innie: I order you to be blessed and to tell me, in your own WAYwords, just how blessed you are to be afforded the opportunity to, in a prevailing way, share how blessed you are to be blessed by the WAYBOT/BOD...... innie: ok

Steve!--ain't it hard to believe people have made themselves learn how to talk like that????? whenever I hear or see that tripe, I think of The Emperor's New Clothes...for some reason lcm always seemed to fit the title role...

llp--you will have to excuse me for finding it hard to believe if other present-day, present-truth wayfers would say what you just did about posting here. One might wonder if RFR, HP, JYL, GF, and other way high muckedy-mucks would share those sentiments or approve of them for the rank-and-file. you are a rank-and-file, are you not, llp???

well, I guess there is an old rocknroll song that applys--"My intentions were good; please don't let me be mis-understood!" Nice intentions--but was lcm really changed?? had he repented of adultery?? not if his taped conversation with the limb guy of SC in the same time period is true... lcm says it is OK with God and that's what ole viccers taught him. Real FREAKING Godly allright!!!!

whoa, cw---the prosecution rests. That says it all. Period.

that is why a guy like Del Duncan did not last in twi. Del was not perfect, duh, none of us are, but Del was true: he never betrayed a confidence and he went to the mat for people. Contrast Del with Blo* M*****an -- self-explanatory...

llp--nice...and YOUR point is?????????

insurgent--well spoken...I have never believed that llp is involved with the twi we all know. He is obviously hooked up with the one in the commercial for Terry Bradshaw.... :D--> ;)-->

ex-10-- --> -->-- yea, one would have to conclude that God was playing fast and loose with the deck....NOT. Guess he might have had a spirit troubling him from some other place, maybe....

Hope --- I don't know if he spent the year composing it or not. I would say that some of the points, with almost 20 years to retrospect, do seem valid. I would question the motivation behind it and I DEFINITELY question the complete WHITEWASH of ANY responsibility that vic had in making the whole mess in the first place by how he, and to a lesser degree, hew and ermal, set up the structure in the earlier(69-75) days. I have concluded over the years that so much of what went down was the chickens coming home to roost--and PoP was just a big attempt to take the spotlight offa vic and his ultimate culpability in so MANY areas. Who better to blame than your own, eldest son, your supposed best friend and your most loyal, abject toady....

Nope, not so... maybe dew was open, he always (at least what I knew of him prior to 89) was open to that... NOT lcm, om, NOT lcm--he got back on his high horse and WOULD not discuss squat--I know MANY who tried...sorry, he was prez, not dew...

OM---against your example of ONE who would NOT go to the BOT, are set HUNDREDS who did and got blown off. You need to get out of your little world more, om... During those years(86-89) I was in touch with perhaps 2 dozen or so folks from all over the US and a foreign country or 2--all KINDS of folks tryed to get some kind of answer from lcm and hra and dew--nada, nuttin...

John, I thought he WAS being loving. He was finally cleaning house of folks who were badmouthing him. It's not just a question of not being loyal; these folks were into badmouthing, whispering, murmuring, suspicious minds. Asking those folks to leave, was being very loving, especially to folks who wanted to fellowship in peace. One of the statements he wrote was "you don't try to co-exist with gangrene; you cut it out." Let's not kid ourselves, folks were given plenty of time, years, to make up their minds. Even after that, they could have come back if they wanted it. But their opinions of Craig and the BOT were evil. I thought it was better they left, personally. So EVERYBODY who left was "badmouthing him"--where is YOUR PROOF, om?? you are talking out your --- on that, bub... that is far from the truth.

not to mention that the scenarios were quite a bit different...the folks who Moses told to take a hike were not Spirit-filled believers and members of the one body of Christ. OM, peace comes from the Prince of Peace, not the absence of people you do not personally see eye to eye with...I believe that was taught in twi all along. What you describe is known as organic unity; get rid of everyone who does not agree with the group's views. Over the next 5 years you saw how that played out....

well, apparently, earlier on in the period he was rather passive, jt. But he sure woke up sometime in there, that's for damn sure.