alfakat

oanda---I will buy a round to that sentiment... :P--> :D-->

John--does not your lovely wife, Hope, have first person knowledge of that incident?? Hope, we command you in the name of Bill Maize, to produce the incident!!!

I will pop in to say, Dot -- well spoken! I know who OM is, do not know him well from ancient days but did glimpse enough of him 29 years ago or so to say: he was much the same then...did not see what he did not WANT to see. Sorry, om, I feel your at times callous, clueless demeanor is a very willful decision. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion and your say. But it is a rather undeveloped, immature stance you seem to bring. You come off as somewhat selfish and childish, unable to really appreciate what others have been through because you have no analog, no scale, no experience to really help you. I would say, from what you project here, that you have an empathy shortage in your programming... I have little sorrow left for poor, helpless vp or whoever --- he made his deal, his bargain and he received his reward; the perks, the Harleys, the free spending money, the adulation, the booze, the motorcoach, the plane, the access to fawning syncophants and toadys, the star-eyed girls, yes, some in their early teens and on and on and on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum..... Does he really NEED defenders??? I would suggest GOD get the praise for the knowledge of His Word and Will that seeped through, not a man who seemingly had no great desire to live as the servant that the Lord Jesus requires those with oversight to be...IMHO,... YMMV...

mizz vicks sorry i have not been hangin out here much lately and missed your b-day...peace, love, dove and a grateful dead tie-dye tshirt from moi... love, alfakat

I think the Cream days might pre-date wide-spread wayfer influence by just a tad, TS. "Presence of the Lord" off of Blind Faith is later than the Cream stuff, right??

been away fer a few daze...HAPPY,HAPPY, HAPPY, Hope!!! Hey, Hope, do you remember the "snake" song from our first year????

always ready to "way"-blige... MMMWWWUUUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

There is none so blind as those who will NOT to see......

ya know, excie... you are right! I think sometimes it is very easy to sit in the stands and criticize others. I believe that there definitely would have been some who would have bought in hook, line and sinker if he had liked snails and puppy dog tails and young boys... THEN we would hear the complaining and the cursing from ALL the males....but there will always be some males who just can't get TOO shook when some 15,16,17 year old girl is preyed upon cuz, you know, "lolita" and "she was akksin' fer it" and allla that.... AND THEN we are supposed to buy the idea being sold right here, out front of greasespot, that "it don't matta!" cuz GAWWDDDD talks to sinners!!....really, NO ....!!! but maybe there is a difference between narcissistic, unrepentent sinning of an "ordained of God" MOGFODAT and the sinning of your everyday Joe--or "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? GOD FORBID!" hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Hope--that "guy" rev was 2nd kork...all the first kork were in their r and r year our first year in rez, remember...

in other words, a perfect twi leader: did not let the bible get in the way of what he lusted after. I think I will skip the "charisma" and settle for integrity instead. As to "few" leaders or no, I am sure you cannot speak for a fraction of twi "leaders"--I was one and you don't know me from jacksheist. Now multiply me times a couple hundred and you have NO idea whether it was few or many. It is not a disgrace to say you don't know when you don't, UH.....

Rascal, my tc's were a married couple. The woman was opposed to staying with TWI, the man was in favor. The man, according to him, to keep his marriage together, relented and did what the woman wanted. The punchline: women have more power in TWI than they realize, or would care to admit. uhh, NO--THAT woman had more power. unwarranted conclusion about women in general. too small a sample to extrapolate, om. called stereotyping.

OM, fine, NO-ONE is disputing what you saw in NY...but, dude, that was NOTHIN'!!! the ministry went down the crapper BECAUSE that is the direction the trustees took it--PLAIN AND SIMPLE... by the by, OM----why is it you seem to treat lcm's letter as excathedra scripture???? Has it even entered your head that he might have been prevaricating??? bsing? hedging the facts?? well???

yeah, rascal, did cragghead forget about the thing about any 2 people get closer to each other by getting closer to GOD??!!?? same principle--if we both/all declare our allegiance to GOD--what is the problem??? if the BOT had been more forthcoming, maybe there would not have been all the "communication" problems that stemmed from almost 3 years of "craig, the mannequin president"...

OM--history has shown, lcm was NOT interested in loyalty to God--if in doubt, consider "Mark and Avoid"--even vp never was that brazen, that crude, that callous. Stick to what you know...you admit you DID NOT know the whole story in 88/89/90; fine, others knew far more and that is why they rejected lcm's carnal plea for "unity"....

Hope and I and others can back up Catcup on this 100% we were there and knew about RP and what happened. I knew M----a and did not know what happened on her interim year but she was changed our last year in rez--something was wrong. Now I know...this stuff and vpw's basic dishonesty and lack of integrity brought/ and continue to bring twi crashing down. And then there are a pathetic handful left, spending their days snooping at GSC and copy and pasting their pathetic little lives away..John Linder, Gary Fredericks--what little cretins you have become--YES, IN MY FRICKING OPINION!!! what's it to ya???

I am not trying to yank your chain, OM--if I had access to a copy, I would get one to you...but I don't. Maybe someone on here does... The gist of it, at least concerning lcm and his buying into vpw's doctrine of "it's ok, if you can HANDLE it" was that he would not cop to it being wrong and, as the years would show, continued in this practice at that time and times forward, ie, 88/89 and onward. Excuse me if I did NOT want to "sell soap" or any other such hog slop with the "Mano Gawwddddd"....

well, your problem was lack of info--if you can find someone who was a twig leader in SC at that time, they may have a copy of a tape that would have answered ALL your questions. There was NO run-around in the conversation between G Matsuk and lcm, that I will guarantee you....

OM--NOW go ask somebody who knew the Matsuks in SC circa 88/89 and find out JUST what happened when lcm WAS confronted on the EXACT things you just said. THEN come back and tell me what you found out......

hey, WayGB--I sure wish ya was here!! We got a real "full-moon" shot jess waitin fer ya... in the words of the immortal Bugs, "What a Maroon!"

I believe it has to do with mike cross-referencing himself, as usual....when in doubt quote yourself...people will notice how self-important you are...

well, OM--you said it...you were unaware. The whole thing was so rotten, it was beyond repair. None of us perhaps knew just how beyond repair but many knew more than what you have said you knew. THUS, the rejection of lcm's disingenuous call for "sell soap with me". He was on the road down and he NEVER got off, OM. Connect the dots, use your head, consider the place where things were at and where they ended up. You can't be that dense--use your head!!

yay, Paw!! way to go, upgraders!

Galen, here is your use of the word majority on this thread, including context: "Dot Matrix- “Galen: I am curious, and not being mean by asking this, but I am curious.” Very well. “You seem to defend the class and VPW with regularity but you bash the corps with the same frequency. I was just wondering how that can be?” I mean to defend PFAL. VPW has been judged by his actions, and presumably will be judged by someone ‘higher’ than I. I do not mean to condemn him, nor to exonerate him. Corpse members were certainly a varied bunch. In my limited experience, the over-whelming majority(n.b.- emphasis added) of Corpse were mean nasty a$$holes. However in my 18 years, I think that I did see a few who were not. I am sure that I have seen or been in the presence of at least a dozen, who did not have opportunity to open their mouths, and thus they were very nice and possibly even ‘loving’ if only from a distance. I see no contradiction. I never met VPW, I can not hold such an opinion of him, negative or positive. I have probably seen 100 corpse over the course of 18 years, between my wife and I, we can count how many we ever knew the names of on the fingers of 2 hands, of those 4 turned out to be nice. (I am hesitant to say ‘loving’). In limb meetings, at limb offices, etc, I have seen and dealt with many more green name tag wearers, who I never knew their names, but were less friendly than a scorpion in my shorts. “Those of us who were decent people who loved God and went in the corps to serve God had to deal with the same ROTTEN corps you dealt with. I will grant you many of them were nasty, ego maniacs that caused much harm. But MANY if not most of the rotten corps were in the "inner - circle" or close to it (as they were sold out, just not brought into the "secrets" yet.)” Okay, where were those decent loving corpse? I presume they were in Ohio. If I was doing a twig, and needed something, and went to Limb, the Limb Coord (LC) or whatever green-name-tag I dealt with would usually give me a detailed grilling about what I wore, what Twig I ran, Why I needed whatever, and How dare I think that I could run a twig in the absence of corpse." *********************************************** Here is my use, with context: "another quote by Galen: "Each different place that I was stationed or lived, I usually ran a Twig. It worked out such that breifly in '83 we were within a branch, and again in '95-'97. Though most of the we were not within any branch. Living here for a few years, then moving, over and over. We could usually find beleivers whereever we were and piece together a fellowship. But none of that had anything to do with Corpse. When we did need materials, was generally the only dealings that we had with them, usually on the Limb level. My understanding has been that when sent out into the 'field' most of them were sent to limbs, and they remained within the local area around that limb office. So obviously most areas in the nation where I could possibly be stationed, there was on presence of them. "Just consider that these people involved in such things were not representative of the masses." Okay, but wasn't that 'them'?" NO, you are mis-informed completely in the manner, pre-89, in which assignments were given. Most of the corps was sent whereever, and most NOT stuck at/around the limb. Most were twig/branch coordinators--the vast majority. I personally know hundreds that were. And, yes, I knew their names..." never said anything about the majority being kind, gentle or sweet to their mamas...

Well, galen--if you can show me where I ever used the words "majority" and Way Corps together in any of my posts, I will gladly eat my words. I fear you are the one more given to hyperbole than myself....