sky4it

Never did like the group really. Some guy by the name of Allan Canter was preaching TWI stuff in 1976 that is how I ran into them. He had left TWI, and was out preaching the stuff on his own, I was in high school. He divorced his wife and it was all wrong. I moved to Minneapolis in late 76 went to college. The old pecker himself (Victor Paul Weirwille) showed up in Minneapolis at a big convention, I think he had a patch over his eye, had cancer. I met a Pastor at the college i attended his name was Pastor Lodigs he taught biblical Greek. Lodigs fought TWI with me, they were a cult. It was a confusing time buy I never joined. They had a real pretty young gal who married some TWI guy who was going Word over the World. I knew her before she met TWI and after. Cant believe she married him and went. Really nice girls a few years older then me, dont ever know what happened to her. He was in charge of campus ministry at the University of minnesota.

nice piece Rocky

My little TWI Story: Here is what happened: I took PFAL from splinter group of people who were in TWI and started there own fellowship. I had deep misgivings about TWI. I went to Golden Valley Lutheran College in Minnesota, they are no longer in existence. During my education there, one beautiful woman who was a store clerk married a guy from TWI Campus Ministry at the University of Minnesota. I didnt even know she knew him until she was gone. Another beautiful girl (she was georgeous) was heavily recruited by TWI. During that time I went to one Twig meeting and saw VPW at a Minneapolis way convention. and knew the Univeristy of Minnesota Campus way guys, at the U of M. There was a Pastor who taught Greek at Golden Valley Lutheran College, I took 15 credits of Biblical Greek. HIs name was Pastor Lodigs. So we fought TWI, me and Pastor Loddigs with doctrinal stuff. It wasnt tough, there many holes in TWI sermons. That is my little TWI story Paul D

interesting...... hey bramble where are you

Hi Rocky its been a while almost 10 years i think if you see bramble say hi to her from me, her account doesnt take messages.

Thank you really very much it would be nice to talk to Garth 2000 again also Really appreciated

hi I havent been around for 7 or 8 years and I know this is not the spot for it but I was looking for Bramble wondering if she ever stops buy I miss her. me

Thank you for the welcoming response Roy. Your always polite, that is a real nice attribute. Keep up the good work, I am sure someday God will kindly reward you.

Pardon my turkey Kimberly, I read you on that one. That was a nice swan dive. Mosquitoes are not here yet. Have you ever turned off the lights with one mosquito in your room who will not quit? It sounds like a little tiny wennie 747 going off in your ear. And then repeat. After you hit yourself 10 times then you can go to sleep. I think that is probably why I don't mind getting hit once in a while. Nobody beat me up , as much as I have myself. because of those squitoes. Again Kimberly very nice swan dive. That is kind of how those squitoes come in, like swan divers. Sometimes when your on a motorcycle in Minnesota, the Mosquito when your mouth is open, goes right in your mouth then down your stomach. Its weird feeling swallowing a mosquito. so no, I do not think mosquitoes should be protected by Peta. Trust me on this, they are not on the endangered species list. In Minnesota the mosquito is the state bird. I go up to big turtle lake sometimes in the summer. The mosquitoes are so bad on the lake at night, it is really hard to go fishing. And the loons in the spring have there little baby loons on the lake. But they cant fly. So you can get real close to them. But the mamma loon gets mad if you get to close. When the sun goes down, the loons start to sing, and you can hear them for a mile. Here is a quiz for you Kimberly. What animal walking on the ground that doesn't have wings does the mosquito most resemble. there is two answers maybe three. if you get one right I will give you a C+, if you get two I will give you an A.

You might find it interesting, that I ran into a preacher years ago who was very much like Dr. Weirdo. This particular guy, has never been involved in TWI at all. They are similar is this one respect: Neither VPW or this guy ever met a bible verse that was complete unless they inserted themselves into the bible verse. But that is where there similarities (as far as biblical interpetation end) VPW method was to infer nobody could “rightly divide” or understand the bible without his guiding hand and that of his “biblical research team.” This other guys methods are far different. One time he was giving a teaching on Hebrews 2:14. (Look it up if you want) Anyway he focused on two phrases in there, “partakers” and Jesus who “took part”. By focusing on these two phases he basically massacred the entire bible verse. Basically he just tells great big long stories about himself, to let you know what a take partaker and “took parter” in the gospel he is. (Just like Richard Dawkins he is a great story teller.) Then when he is finished he polishes you off, by letting you know that God doesnt like people who want to be the “big cheese.” Since I was sitting in small group of people who were listening to this screwball, I couldnt for the life of me understand who he was referring to as the “big cheese.” Then it donned on me that if you questioned his oratory in any way, that is what being the big cheese was. After I was fortunate enough to get away from this dude, I started thinking how comical it was. This guy actually has like these weird facial contortions when he is preaching, it was like he was having a seizure when he was delivering his message. After he got warmed up his head would start to gyrate; somewhat like a bobble head doll. It kind of reminded me of an old Elvis clip, they way Elvis used to shake his hips. Then if you asked him a question he would stop and appear in deep meditative thought or a trance like state. And it was weird because basically his whole message was about a bunch of stories. It’s actually really hard to describe unless you have heard one of his messages. You kind of feel like the message was delivered to thousands of people even tho there was only about 10 people listening. Its because he put so much drama and facial contortions into the message, that, that alone was the messages chief prevailing point. Whatever the case, after listening to an hours worth of his personal stories, I will never have the same view of Hebrews 2:14 again, not ever. The content of the bible verse is too establish as fact, that Jesus Christ took on a body of mortal flesh that was in all respect like us, with the only exception he had no sin and was blameless. When this guy was finished that fact was basically massacred because his entire tone of the message was to establish the HE, this guy, was the only clown in town who knew what that was all about. That is just the opposite of the bible verse. The bible verse is there specifically so that we can relate our own human weaknesses, with that of our saviour Jesus Christ. The bible verse it there to let us know that we can relate in our humanity, easily with Jesus Christ. You know there are deceivers and then there are deceivers. If somebody has got the goods they don’t have to convince you of there personal wherewithal. If you have the goods the bible says your suppose to live it as an example. Nothing more, nothing less. Personally, I am glad it is just that simple, so that if I were to let a charlaton run me around like this clown, well the reason is within my own insecurity. The only reason people like this ever have a chance of succeeding is that people are insecure in there own beast. Then screwballs like this guy seize on that insecurity to bolster themselves as your self appointed know it all. Never by example alone, but by grandiose messages that have no content of value.

Thanks for the compliment waysider, appreciated, and too you also erkjohn.

It has been pretty well documented by some people in here, that VPW cobbled together teachings from other writers,preachers and so forth. VPW simply repackaged what these people said, into his own workable format. The important thing was, they provided material which was acceptable to many religious organizations, many things which were pretty acceptable stuff. But when VPW added his private touch to these things, he did it to massacre certain bible versus, to cleverly manipulate and control. Its also interesting that Wierwille took scholor EW Bullingers work along. Some of Bullingers work was complex, interesting but very difficult to assimulate. Its also fascinating that Wierwille backloaded the bible, by casting doubt on some bible verses as to wether they were in the originals. (Some people might find it interesting that the same material is a feature from a Professor (cant remember his name) who also has highlighted the same material in a book recently to cast doubt on the bible also.) Former TWI people who have kept there faith, might find that intriguing because the book caused quite a stir amongst some believers, because people thought it was new information when it has been out there for a long time. But Dr Wierdo added some weird stuff like the 4 crucified with Christ, (as if it mattered) and then the he didnt believe in the Trinity stuff. Its my opinion, it was all deliberate, because VPW didnt want people who wouldnt think and do what he wanted around him. The four crucified with Christ stuff, provided a nice litmus test as too who would believe the Quack Doctor. I think its also fascinating, that Dr Wierdo was clever enough not to mention his weird sexual appetitites except to his closer ups, or perhaps only when he was discovered. In that way the rank and file, and the ones on lower rung, would never quite have enough reason, to know what he was all about. (Even to this day, who knew what about certain things is pretty much an individual question.) But Dr. Wierdo was clever enough, to know he couldnt make his cult run without: 1) some well established material which people couldnt question and 2) a FEW things that were really off the wall nuts, just enough to DISTINGUISH himself from every other religious organizion. Pure Savagery.

Geisha: Don’t go leaving now, people need you here I read your posts Geisha and I know you mean well. You have so much to offer Geisha and you know so much. Like when you told Garth that he was acting like a Christian, that was priceless, only you Geisha could have said it just like that. Besides that Geisha I am a big time Geisha fan, and I am not a fan of too many people. WG has been really hurt by the Calvinator, and she despises that they make her feel like she has to be a Calvinator or she is all wrong. She’s is right to be upset. WG isnt upset at you she upset at the Calvinator, because the Calvinator all about words and deceiving people. So you stay around now Geisha people need you here. If anyone should be leaving it should be me, because I said enough already. WG is a very gifted person too. She’s really smart and gifted at somethings. Puts yourself in WG shoes, imagine if after TWI you had the Calvinator appartus bouncing you, you would be upset too. Plus WG is very careful with people to say the right thing, so you need to stay and we need all to help WG because she is a gifted speaker and knows what she is talking about.

One of the most beautiful hymns ever wrote and sung, by Rebecca StJames, pretty much sums up what I believe.

I tried telling you this on at least one other occassion Garth, but I think you werent reading what I wrote and you were more content to read what I wrote to poke holes in it. I will try it one more time, to see if you can see it more clearly: Uhh Stop sin no, cant be done because man has a free will to do whatever he wants, otherwise that would be slavery and God is about freedom. BTW, Garth, the Calvinists try to place Gods will (predestination) sanctimoniously in place of their will, in order to circumvent their own will and there sinful ways. But the Bible teaches man is responsible for accepting salvation, so as not to sin again. It is a one lifetime, free gift, so that sin ought to have been stopped right there. Which brings us to number 2) but forgive sin so that people will Stop sinning, YES of course, it must make sense by now. Then, somewhere along the line you missed the reasoning. You know you athiests are always so big on INGNORANCE, but you ignore EVERYTHING that doesnt reason itself out to your own self satisfaction. Who ever said that it was God’s will to make man in his own image? It couldn’t have been, otherwise he would not have been grieved after he did it. (See Genesis 6:6, And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and grieved him at his heart.) So then, you say to yourself, shouldn’t God have told MEN, not to “go for it?” He did, he did tell them not to do it. (In fact he told them if they did it they would end up dying because of it) When? In Psalm 82:6,7 that is when. (You know, that bible verse that when Jesus quoted just about got him murdered?) Are we waking up yet Garth? Do we remember now? I tell you what Garth, for old time sake, I will quote it again for you, here it is, “I have said you are Gods and all of you are children of the most High, but you shall DIE like MEN and fall like one of the princes.” You have to understand Garth that that bible verse was never spoken from Genesis until the book of Psalms. It was quoted as a direct reference as something that was spoken a long time before all of that. Why? Because the ones who wanted to be men were his children (That is precisely what the bible verse says, that they were “children of the most high”, for whatever reason they were not content any longer being children and wanted to be men, that is why, and they wanted to become in the image of God, a man, so that they could swipe, steal and take the Kingdom by force from God. That is the story that Jesus tells.) Ok then, so now lets go grab the story that Jesus tells to prove all of that, that the record is in the Bible. (Mark 13:34-36) “As a man taking a far journey” GO read it yourself..... and Mathew 21:33-38, “went into a far country”, “SO WHEN THE HUSBANDMEN SAW THE SON, THEY SAID AMONGST THEMSELVES, THIS IS THE HEIR, COME LET US KILL HIM AND LET US SEIZE UPON HIS INHERITANCE, AND THEY CAUGHT HIM AND CAST HIM OUT OF THE VINEYARD AND SLEW HIM........” Be sure to read the rest of it too Garth, it all fits perfectly together. Ahh lets see Garth, you have a book called the bible, which basically is all about justice and righteousness, and because you think it is the opposite of that your correct? That’s inexcusable. Ahh, and don’t forget Garth, the DON’T FALL ASLEEP ON THE JOB PROVISIONS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. Its all in there for the understanding. So if you put your best foot forward Garth, you will get it now. Problem is, you start telling people and quoting them the record, and they aint going to like you for it, because they want to be ignorant of the record, it’s the only way that they justify and continue there behavior. You start telling them what really happened and they will call you an idiot, a moron and everthing else. Gee, telling people the truth today, its just great fun, isnt it Garth? You know what your problem is Garth? Your problem is that VPW so polluted your reading of the Bible, that you think you know everything that could possilby jump out of the Bible at you. You think you have all of that stuff down because VPW deceived you into believing exactly that, when he pretty much said, if you listen to VPW, you don’t need to listen to anyone else baby. And the problem with that Garth, is that, it was all a whole lot simpler than VPW ever said. VPW had to, like John Calvin, be lengthy to pollute the simplicity of the message. He did that deliberately to deceive people. Another lengthy story teller, who is VPW and John Calvin like, is atheist Daniel Dennett, which I went into in some detail a few paragraphs from now. Here is one more king size King Solomon like gold nugget for thought. I Peter 2:4, “To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed INDEED OF MEN, but chosen of God and precious.” It’s well known that Christ was the living stone, the corner stone. Notice it says disallowed indeed of MEN. It doesn’t say disallowed of women. Men disallow it, because when they became a man, and.... THEY COULD NOT KEEP THE COVENENT OF WHAT IT MEANT TO BECOME A MAN. That would be all those covenents that God made with man from Noah down through the ages. Notice also the perfect word placement and format of the word INDEED. Men, disallowed the deeds (that is the placement of the word indeed) of the living stone ie(Christ) WHY? Because they cant be a man and get it right that is why. Thus, they have to disallow the deeds of a man who did it right and correct and who can be a man correctly. You know Garth, I can’t keep doing this stuff much longer. It feels like your hacking on me. If you keep an open mind and chew on the Words of God, you will understand why it is things are like the way they are. Also you have realize Garth, that aheists know all of this, mostly in back seats of where they are trying to park their dicks, that is why they cannot stand the gospel. Now I realize as a former TWI member, you are more eloquent about it, but true athiests are not eloquent at all about it. Furthermore, athiests don’t want to allow the truth of Gods word, into there collective memory, because its too painful for them to see themselves standing in Gods shoes, in his image, and not being able to do that without sinning. Thats why athiests at all times must collectively sack the concept of God. Lastly, as a man myself, it certainly give me no great pleasure to tell you this undeniable truth. The problem is Garth, some of God’s children wanted to try it, and God let them, with a warning that they would die. They went anyway, despite the advanced notice. Now God provided them with a plan of salvation, which plan of salvation, is not offered forever and ever. It has an end, and that day is approaching. I wouldn’t worry about it too much Garth, at least not yet, at least your not a female trying to act like a male whose name is Tommy Lee Jones. You have to understand Garth, that the Leprechauns and Satans master plan is too turn everyone into a man, then there would be no woman left for a good man to have. This is why the Leprechauns are so in love with other mens butts. I know that you will laugh about that and not think I am serious. But I am serious Garth, and I mean it. Leprechauns find no worth about sex if it isnt anything that isnt another mans butt. Lastly what does all this say about women? It says plenty. A Woman, who has NO urge to be a man, is the sweet nectar of this life. Pretty hard to imagine how intolerable this life would be without women who are here to show kindness and love. Now you said Garth, that stoning was “barbaric” and” loathsome” and you said it was not progressive and did not advance society. What you fail to realize Garth, is that a soceity where men are ruling is barbaric and loathsome, because men are more barbaric because they don’t want God and many of them do not want Gods plan. Simple stuff really. This will help you sort and sift it out better Garth. There actually was a plan, to subvert and overthrow Gods Kingdom. Here is part of that plan. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” They say “endowed by there creator also, to act as if this was GODS PLAN. Just because they can say “endowed by their Creator, doesnt mean God endowed upon them what they presume to have. It never was Gods plan. It was mans plan and God only went along to reveal his plan of salvation in the interim, subjecting the entire world populace to it and hoping that they would accept it. The bible says exactly that. “For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who has subjected the same in hope.” Romans 8:20 The creature was subjected in the hope, that man would accept or adopt the concept of salvation. You kind of have to read all those verses in Romans 8, to get the point. More importantly it is because of HOPE that we are saved. The bible says precisely that in Romans 8:24, “For we are saved by HOPE,” The problem is that the hopeful message of salvation is purposely rejected when men go back and repeat there lives. This is why at the end of this writing, I describe mans situation with God, at best being very precarious. Man is not entitled to a life of sin, even if man thinks that it is liberty. They say it is SELF EVIDENT, that is a lie, there is absolutely nothing SELF EVIDENT ABOUT mans entitlements to whatever he wants be listed as a liberty. The whole entire plan, was to throw the Immortal God out of his kingdom, in the name of what man called a self evident truth. It was brutal deception, from the start to toss God out of his house, and take everything he ever created and had. If that isnt evil and diabolical nothing else ever will be. The goofy thing is Garth, is that it is pretty much over. Gods not going to let them back in his house because if he did, they would try to fly there flag there all over again. He might give some of them visitation rights, but that will be about it. There is actually a reason for the seperation clause in the consitution, is about trying to sack God. They wanted the bible and God, off on the side, where if they needed him in the future they could revisit it as a viable issue. Proof? The term self-evident, is the term they used to oust God, its also the term atheists love to lie about. They lie about it because God said the invisible things from creation are clearly understood (they are self evident) see Romans 1. Here is precisely how they sacked God with the term self evident: They had a dick, and they had a wish, the wish was what they called self evident, that is too say, they can do whatever they want with there dicks because that is “self evidently” pursuit of happiness. It doesnt get any clearer than that. You say well, how do you know athiests had anything to do with the Consititutution? You know because atheists like Daniel Dennett, who wants to relegate God a role of Santa Claus, is living in the US of A. Dennett actually calls God Santa Claus, and says your deluded if you believe in him. Dennett calls God Santa Claus and you deluded if you believe in him, because Daniel Dennett cannot string together a few pages of a book that are not by themselves a delusion. Here is one of Daniel Dennett quotes from his book Darwins Dangerous Idea: “The kindly God who lovingly fashioned each and every one of us and sprinkled the sky with shining stars for our delight -- that God is, like Santa Claus, a myth of childhood, not anything a sane, undeluded adult could literally believe in. That God must either be turned into a symbol for something less concrete or abandoned altogether.” This man at times cannot string together a few sentences that make any sense whatsoever. This is why Dennett chooses run on sentences over fact, it’s the only way Dennett can hide his own evil mind. Notice that Dennett, says in pun form that God fashioned each and everyone of us, only later to discard and discredit it a childhood myth. The only reason for making a pun fly and then to discard it later, is that Dennett doesn’t even believe his own lies anymore, that is how deluded Dennett has become. Dennett, actually fosters his own conclusions by reveling in his own lies. Dennett actually constructs huge run on sentences, then acts as if he is dumbstruck by the sheer magnitude of his own intellectual capacity. While reveling in his own intellect, your supposed to be dumbstruck too by the marvelous intellect of Daniel Dennett, its sheer unadultered insanity to even try to figure out, the brain waves of a man like Daniel Dennett.(This is precisely what Dennett said, that the concept of God, is “not anything a sane undeluded adult could literally believe in.” If it is not sane to believe in it, why on earth would Dennett want to discuss an insane thought? Because he knows that God is true, that is why. So he has to revel in his own disbelief to impress everyone) Would somebody get this guy a straight jacket? I have never actually seen someone who can do that and get by with it in public, that is how bizarre Daniel Dennett has become. And to see someone who can actually talk that way holding a Professorship at a University is something else. A Holloween and cape and gown act has arrived at the University of Tufts when Daniel Dennett came to town. He does it because he wants to cheat God, he does it for a show and so he can be a big shot. Daniel Dennett simply does it because he believes it will work, and he can win and he can call all the shots on what God should have the right to and what God should not have the right too. If this were not true, the United States of America wouldnt so much as allowed Daniel Dennett and his tribe of evolutionary lying tale bearers, to put a sole of his foot on the ground of the USA. The United States of America allowed it in the country because they wanted, what Daniel Dennett and his evolution animal patrol had started, they wanted it completed. Daniel Dannett’s chief method of operating against God, is to try to sound smarter than God. He does this by repeated long sentences, which are constructed in a way to confuse and deceive the reader. It’s deliberate of Dennett to do this. Dennett beleives if he can sound smarter than God, well then he has beat God. But that is not the truth, The truth is what the gospel says about the record itself. The bible says that it is so easy to understand, a child could understand. (Remember that bible verse, out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou has perfected praise?) It is that way purposefully, wonderfully, so that no one can claim ignorance and miss it. They wanted to rob the bible and God of every last soul God ever had. And that’s good and honest reason for the cult called Athiesm anyway. Somebody gave em a cult nickname, they call em Darwiniacs. Ahem, I salute the person who did that. Oh and don’t forget, Jesus Christ destroyed the idea of death 2000 years ago, when he prophesied dying on a cross, “It is finished.” What was finished? Well sin was suppose to be finished of course, unless men wanted to KEEP ON SINNING. 2,000 years later, nothing has changed except that those that wanted it that way still have there boots off in other womens houses and are still a sinning, and they are going to be left behind, as in left behind to there own deception and there own country and booted out of Gods kingdom. I am even hanging on to that bible verse, spoken by Jesus just before his cruxifiction that lets me engage in just enough of my own barbarism., you know the right kind of barbarism the kind you do to protect yourself. You know the kind of protection a person such as myself needs when you cant get protection any way else. You know this one here: Luke 22:36 Here is one that might provide a little comic relief: You know Actress Sharon Stone, her last name is Stone after all, perhaps she will do a fly by and let us know, if carrying around a handle like Stone has been a major insult to her all of her life. I personally doubt it. When you look as sweet as she does, reality is that her name probably is only an insult to any guy who thought stoning was all that difficult. Hey wait a minute that sounds like me. I guess that might mean she would want to hire me to protect other men from her name. Ahh at last a job I would like. To the darling Actress Sharon Stone, it’s a Nelly Kelly Dilemma thing, yeah honey, and I want a chance to miss you too: “No matter what I do, all I think about is you, even when I am with with my boooooo,,,, yah know I am crazy over you..................... And its more than you’ll ever know, its for sure, you can always count on my love forever more.............................. Thats what happens when you love baby, its pure poison. I hope guys don’t go getting all frustrated over the music, Its not like I posted that song by Nellie Its getting hot in here so take off all your cloths, in here, now that would have been just plain wrong. The skinny or the upshot of the entire matter written about here, is that man’s position with God right now, right at this point in time is very PRECARIOUS. It is precarious because man is engaging in behavior that God never created or intended him for. That is why there is all the uncertainty surrounding mans eternal existence. The problem is in telling this story of the truth, if I don’t tell it just right, well then, I have to tell it all over again, to make it make better sense. So I added some onions and cheese on it, to make it more palatable, more easy to understand. I did that only only only so that the real truth of the what is really going on will be more easily read, more easily understood, more easily tolerated. Hope all of this helps.