dmiller

And then there is --- I'll believe the "graffiti" on the wall! :D-->

"Don't worry, be happy!" :D--> :D-->

Same thing goes for the "former members" who taught you. :)--> YOU study to show yourself approved to God, a workman etc., etc. (2 Tim. 2:15) Don't get discouraged because man, or an orginazation has let you down. --> GreaseSpot is a great place to ask questions, and get answers, as well as to just "unload" the excess baggage from years past.

Hooner -- twi taught some good stuff, and some bad stuff. As in any other situation in life, sift out the good from the bad. Excess "baggage" gets heavy after a while! ;)-->

Can't state this for a fact, but I am willing to bet that vpw "fell under the spell" of motivational speakers such as Og Mandigo, Napolean Hill, Zig Ziglar, and W. Clement Stone. They all promoted "possibility thinking" -- "think, and grow rich" type of stuff. My guess is that vpw took what they offered in the "natural" realm, and put a "spiritual" spin to it, because every last thing he says about "believing equals receiving" is word for word from what these guys said. I used to work for one of W. Clement Stone's companies, and every day we started out with "affirmations" to get us into a "Positive Mental Attitude" (PMA). Sound familiar??? Believing equals receiving. --> These guys, and their "doctrine" are probably still be prominant in the sales arena (I left that a long time ago, so I don't know), but they were big time back 40 or so years ago, and I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that vpw plagarized from them just as quickly as he did from Stiles, Bullinger, etc., etc., etc.

That was for you Hooner. :)-->

"Telling" God to do something, is a result of "believing". What are you believing in? Your ability to believe? Your knowledge of the promises found in the Word? A class that tells you that "focused mental gymnastics" will get you what you want? Hmmm. "Asking" God to lead/deliver, is a result of prayer. It is true that He is willing, and able to deliver and -- (imho) the only thing you have to "believe in" is His ability TO DO. Prayer simply means "to ask". To dictate is not part of the equation. The knowledge of the promises found in the Word are essential, because they show God's ability/willingness to do what we need. Not only that, but they are also in the past tense, meaning that they have already been accomplished through Jesus Christ. Praying to God, or to Jesus Christ, asking for these promises is not the same as the "believing" that twi propounds. Daniel prayed for 3 weeks straight (read all about it in Daniel 10) before he got an answer to his prayer. Did he finally "believe" on the 21st day?? No. Look at what held up the "answer to prayer" (vs 12-13). Persevering in prayer is NOT to be equated with the twi version of believing. As far as that goes, I doubt that prayer even enters the twi mindset when deliverance is sought. A short "prayer"/"mantra"/"call it what you will", and then it is up to you, and whatever brain cells you have left that are functional. --> Oh -- did I say the knowledge of the promises in the Word were essential?? The only real promise you need to know is that God is your Father, you are His child. And just like an earthly father, God is willing to move Heavan and Earth for the son/daughter who asks, instead of dictating demands.

Wayfer Not! -- That says it all! :)--> :)--> Sorry if I offended you, as that was not my intention. Reading your post, I don't think I did, because you're offering excellent "arguements" for disliking the song. I was/am looking at it from a melodic viewpoint vs. the words and the heart of those doing the singing. I agree -- singing in twi was more "ritual" than anything else. We were at the meeting, 'cuz we had to. We sang, 'cuz we had to. Everything done was 'cuz we had to. Little room for us to actually do the "inviting of God to come near" (as you said), since all was planned. Unless it was done while one speaker was exiting the podium, and another was making their way to it! :P--> Twi left little room for personal devotion.

Wayfer Not -- you must not be a "picker" then. :)--> Melodies transcend the words that accompany. I see the melody first, and words second. Were you to look at "Farther Along" as an instrumental, and ignore the words, you might find it pleasing. "Farther Along" is a hit at fiddle contests where it is required to play a hymn along with the breakdowns, walzes, schottiches, and tunes of choice. With Farther Along, you can move along the fingerboard from 1st to 3rd position very easily. (For those of you who have no idea what I am speaking of, that is low to high on the neck of the fiddle). If you want to trash the words, so be it. The tune is a classic.

Shaz -- I had MANY of Roger's Folkways Recordings back 30 plus years ago. Sadly, I do not have them today, but I remember how well he picked. :)--> While Blue Grass is not "sacred" to me, it is the "music of preference", at my house. There is nothing finer than having the guitar, mandolin, fiddle, banjo, and bass, swatting out a tune with some vocals tossed in for good measure. twi took the term "Blue Grass" and turned it into "True Grass", because "Blue" somehow indicated a negative, --> and we can't have that can we??? PFAL 77 -- I got a chance to "trade licks" on stage with Randy De*****. Both of us picking banjo, and having a fun time doing so! Once was a time Bluegrass was an accepted form of music at twi, and they had to go and change the name to suit their whatever-ya-want-to-call-it. :(--> Their feeble attempt to be "politically correct" in the "spiritual" sense.

UncleHairy -- :D--> :D--> Saw a bumper sticker just today that said --- "Everyone has the right to be stupid, but you are abusing the privilidge!"

Where is a "Star-Gate" when you need one? :D-->

Hooner -- welcome! :)--> Raf -- I'm willing to make a donation for more cups if you run out! :D-->

Absolutely. :)--> And btw -- my apologies for making it sound like it was vpw who I was promoting. In no way do I promote, support, or extol him, or his works. The "wall" I mentioned was not vpw's take on the doctrine, but the doctine itself -- which became a big issue in 325 at the Council of Nicea.

I never heard her much, except for "God bless you, how are y'all doing" -- and then launching into a description of some function that had either just happened, or was upcoming. Should I be counting my "blessings"? :D-->

I did forget to metion the fact that Adam was created by God (but I guess you knew that). If Jesus is the 2nd Adam, (also created as Adam was), how could He be a part of a "trinity"?? Not possible, nor viable if the salvation of mankind is in question.

The O.T. is full of symbolism. Look at Joseph, sold into slavery, yet becoming the highest person in the land -- second only to Pharoah. Look at Isaac -- a son willing to do his father's will, even to death. He was the second "recorded" son of Abraham, yet the only one recognized by God as an heir. Any similarities to Adam, and Jesus here?? Hmmmm? There are other "types" of Christ in the OT that show subservience on one hand by the son, and an "expectant" Father looking for such, on the other hand. I find it hard to even imagine that Jesus is God (though that is what I was taught), given the many clear, explicit examples of a willing son fulfilling the desires of the father in the OT -- and anyone who wishes to look at this honestly -- will hopefully realize that a son may have the qualities of his father, but is NOT the one and same person. How could Jesus have prayed --"Not my will, but Yours" if He was a part of the "The Godhead"? Two distinct entities are involved here -- Jesus (man), and God (supreme). I, for one, do not care where vpw got this "theology" -- and others have expanded on the topic since I read his work -- but it is correct, and to question it, is to butt your head into a theological wall that will prove superior, and more formidable than that which your head (helmet included) will prevail against. Jesus Christ is not God, but he is the closest thing to God we will ever see -- both now, and in the here-after. And that will be because of what He has done, as a man, tempted like us, yet refusing to sin -- and going thru the agony and death that He did as a completely guiltless person for the likes of you and I, the exact opposite. The only "trinity" I believe in is -- God in Christ in Me.

Nothing more fun than doing "calisthenics or stoking the wood-burning stove" while dressed in yer best! --> Wood-burning stove? --> Is that the only heat available there (other than that from "leadership")? :P-->

Trefor -- yes. :)--> Matter of fact, one of the few times Jesus needed money, he had Peter get it from the mouth of a fish. (Mat. 17:27) And even then , it was not for Him, but to be used for taxes. :P-->

Aww -- LittleHawk!

Me, my (then) wife, and another couple were called troublemakers. The four of us came out of a Jesus Freak group, and were always asking "disruptive" questions. Didn't know "troublemaker" was an official term!! :P-->

:D--> :D--> :D--> sometimes I wonder how we even made it out of Minnesota, much less there and back!

The worst thing they did to music, I think, was to take the valid genre name "Blue Grass", and turn it into "True Grass". They butchered songs too, but this one took the cake.

Yes. --> :(--> --> Nothing against Ohio, but I grew to really dislike their state anthem!

Good question. That is another reason to show that one's giving should be a heart issue like Raf said. :)-->