dmiller

:D--> :D-->

Ok. Agreed. The origins were corrupt, they were flawed, and they were a "broken cistern". Now -- my question is simply this. Have you listened to any of the CES teachings? Have you logged on recently to www.truthortradition.com to see what they have to say, or have you logged on to www.biblicalunitarian.com to see what is being said about the trinity?? If you have, great. You are then qualified to make these statements. If you haven't, then don't criticize. I have a friend who wrote a book entitled "The Ultimate Heresy -- The Inerrancy of the Bible". I took issue with him about the title, and to his credit, he told me -- "If you haven't read it, you have no place discussing it." He was right, and now that I have read it, we can, and do discuss it. Same thing with you. I don't know if you have followed any of the CES teaching tapes, or if you have even heard any of them, but I am getting the impression you are making a "blanket statement" about a group, and are basing it on the "viral nature of their beginnings". I for one, have had a positive experience with CES, and because of them, I would NEVER run back to twi. Wierwille Road, and Highway 29 will never, ever been seen through my windshield again. "Flawed beginnings" don't neccesarily constitute "flawed results", as you are seemingly so quick to point out. Given some of the ********* that has happened to me in my own life, those "flawed beginnings" that have personally happened to me, have proved to be a pretty dynamic "springboard", lifting me up and out of where I was, and into something that I always dreamed of being. CES is no different. But hey -- T'is a free country.

Good to know bulls have sheets. Now -- what do they use for blankees?? Or pillows? (spoken with heart!) :)--> poor old bulls!! They need PETA behind them.

Tom!!!! This a moderated site! Don't be going asking questions like that! :D--> :D-->

I can testify to that. From limb leader in Indiana, to current status in CES, and through personal communications with him, John is now much more the servant, versus the leader. If folks can't see change in a person, because of pre-conceptions, I suggest they look at themselves, and see how they might have changed over the years themselves. I do NOT suggest that anyone is a MOGFODAT, however if someone (anyone) decides to change, and try to be a better person, that effort I do recognize, and applaud. You're right Radar. We have all changed. Hopefully, we are changing for the better! :)-->

I like Jal, cause he is just like you and I. Been there, Done that, Made mistakes, Got the Tee-shirt, Trying a new path. Doesn't this describe all of our journey's?? I think it does. We all show up, post feelings, beliefs, misgivings, etc., and expect to be accepted for what we post. So be it, and let it be for all, JAL included.

Miller comes from my paternal grandfather's side. His dad emigrated from Germany, and the name was Mueller. They changed it when they reached America to Miller.

BTW -- the "family name" is Mac Ewen, and I am on a Mac. Might be what makes the difference. :)-->

I'm of Scottish heritage, and German also. Someone, somewhere, is looking out for me. :)--> :)-->

The eleventh commandment perhaps?? Thou shalt pay aol fees. ;)--> ;)-->

:)--> :D--> :)--> :D--> :)--> :D--> :)--> I tell the truth, and I have posted it before. I am willing to pay them, but so far, (alas, sigh, -->) they have not seen fit to charge me. :(--> :D--> :D--> :D-->

Amen to that. Some churches have more comfortable pews than others. Makes it worthwhile to check them all out, programs as well as churches! ;)-->

I'm on Aol 5.0, and it works just fine. I think I must have "slipped through the cracks", cause I started on aol 4.0 (from one of those "free 45 day, 1025 hours" cd's, and have never been billed. Ever. That was over 3 years ago. I even have a different puter now, and have downloaded aol 5.0 from aol, and still have never received a bill. 9.0 might be nice, but I am comfortable where I am!!

I do not like the 12 step program for myself personally, yet it has helped many that I know and love, so I can't knock it at all. While it is not for me (I still refuse to go to a group that mentions "Higher Power", and doesn't put a name to it), both my brother, and a couple of other good friends have beat their addictions by doing just that. I know of others who believed that the 12 step was devilish, just because Jesus is never mentioned, and Higher Power could be anything, but reguardless of that, they have come to see that for some (many), folks are being helped by the program. Unfortunately, many do put more importance in the program, and consider it "the deliverer". But you made a good point about Jesus can be where He is needed, and when He is needed. If the "programs" (AA, NA, Al-Anon, etc.) can help -- more power to them. I used to scoff at them, but no more. They help bring healing into folks lives.

And you forgot yer punctuation!! :D--> :P--> :D--> Looking forward to meeting the new "lurker". We are rough around the edges, but at least we have edges! :P-->

And not only that, "word" was spread around, that you would be inviting "devil spirits" into your life, if you even read it. How's that for "covering your tracks??"

What do I want that I never got?? A return to the "good old days" that disappeared so quickly. They were here one moment, then gone the next. Even having Geo back in town, and him hiring me to help with a roofing job. The "good old days" were here briefly, but disappeared so fast, it was almost like they were never here. I would like to see that happen again, whether or not twi was involved. They (twi) went their way, and left a lot of us in the dust. I guess I got all I could from twi. Good friends, good fellowship, and good memories. The only thing I could have wished for more than all of that, would be a lasting relationship, and that never happened. Oh well -- the memories remain.

Thought you might think so.

Hiya Tom !!!! you said: If you don't use a "Rolodex", you don't work at a group home like I do. we've got a BIG, FAT, THICK one on the office desk, with all the conservator phone numbers, all the doctors (dental, physical, psychiatric, ENT physicians, not to mention the guardians, spokespersons, social workers ------ Gawd!!! I'm getting tired just listing the titles!!! I guess I can just say -- Yer Lucky!! ;)-->

Searcher -- Sorry bro, didn't mean to de-rail here. We were "micro-managed" too. :(-->

"Limited exposure, with 18 years involvement??" Hmmm. OK -- I'll take you at your word for that, but I will also have to agree about the hierarchy espoused by twi. I was never corps, but did get into University of Life. Because of that fact, others looked up to me as one who "could of been Corps", but had sufficient reason to not enter the program "at this time". --> Did that make me any more "spiritual" than "Average Joe Believer"?? In their eyes it did, and I gotta admit, for a while I thought so too. Took me a while to realize that I was saved by grace, just like "Average Joe Believer", and that my "standing with the "ministry" of twi was a whole lot different than my "standing in Christ". Unfortunately -- yes. The caste system is still there. And twi did it's best to "alienate" folks by labels, and did so very effectively. I currently work at a group home where I am "staff", and the guys that live there know it. I am in charge, yet if need be, I have to wipe their butts when they go to the can, since some cannot do it for themselves. Wish I had that sort of training in twi. "Here you go Son, you're a leader now. Be a good servant." Instead of teaching the "servant" mentality, twi taught the "lord it over others" mentality. Corps, WOW, U of L, LEAD, etc. It wasn't enough to be "Averqage Joe Believer", you had to be a member / grad/ whatever of a certain pogrom to excell. Woops!! Did I say pogrom??? I really meant a--hemmmmm program. --> Nuff said. As Man of 1K Names says "The lessons repeat, until they are learned".

I "blanked out" once on a cross-country ski trail. Arms and legs kept moving, I stayed upright moving over the course, and after a bit, I knew where I was, and where I was going. It never happened again, though I wondered about what had happened later on. Got back to the truck ok, and got some nourishment in me, and skied the trail again, with no further occurrance. so I never gave it a second thought. I think Zix is right about the low blood sugar, cause I think that is what happened to me that day. Once I got something in me, I was fine. But if this is a "happening thing' with you --- YOU have the rolodex with the Dr.'s phone number -- right?? :)-->

Got both your letters. The folks at the copy place are gonna be busy!! :D--> :D--> :D--> Have a whole lot more stuff here I am going to have them copy, other than just the 37 page letter. Should be a trip down "Memory Lane". -->

You're right Oldies, I have a copy of it here at the house. It is 37 pages long, written (dated) Feb. 26, 1987, and signed by John and Pat Lynn, Tom Reahard, Ralph Dubofsky, and Robert Belt. If you are interested, my e-mail addy is in my profile. I can have copies made, and send you one. Put Oldies, or Greasespot, or something like that in the title so I don't delete your letter. :)--> (can't believe I still have this thing, but I do.)

And for the record -- I used to be a firefighter with the Forest Service. I'm not "blowing smoke" about this here.