dmiller

Doesn't this quote belong in the Politics thread?? --> --> This is the best description I have heard of Democrats yet!! :D--> :D--> :D-->

Roy -- say it ain't so! :(-->

Evan -- :)--> Irrelevancy is where you find it, and I suspect we all have our own fields that grow "bumper crops" of such. In the over-all plan of Salvation, yes -- I will agree that it is irrelevant if 2, 4, 10, or 20 were crucified with Christ, just as it is irrelevant to Salvation if Peter denied Christ 3, 6, 9, or 12 times. The fact that others were crucified with Christ, and the fact that Peter did deny Christ is relevant, since those two instances were included in scripture. While the fact that these two instances (numerically speaking) may or may not be relevant, it can be a moot point, while the real issue is being ignored. To me, the main issue is the integrity of the Word - plain and simple. Too many folks will see discrepancies in certain verses, and toss out the entire bible, because of those verses that do not match up. In this age of skepticism, it doesn't take much to discredit anything, and if the explanations of 4 crucified, or 6 denials, or 2 entries into Jerusalem, or 3 Suppers, or the 2 genealogies can help a person see the over-all relevance, and integrity of the Word --- then I am all for it. I don't go out "preaching" 4 crucified. Never have, and never will. A verse often quoted by John Schoenheit on the CES tapes is Proverbs 25:2 Proverbs 25:2 -- It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter" God expects us to work to find truth. Most do not want to do so. Most want it handed to them on a silver platter. Most shun the "work ethic" involved, when confronted with inconsitancies. To have an answer for those problematic verses handy, is invaluable, but not the main focus, to be sure - for those who have questions. Now -- I better shut up, or this will be so lengthy, that I will be an author "engaged in an interesting exercise in contemplating his novel". :D-->

Oak -- your quote is HERE, from the "Filthy Lucre" thread. :)-->

Ex10 -- he will be ready for that pool, and some sweating -- after he leaves here, and headed your way from Minnesota. We've already had snow up here. :(--> Nothing on the ground yet, but snow none the less. I just wish I could come with him, on his journey south! :D-->

Steve -- yep -- I know he stole those nuts, and didn't stumble on them. (I was trying to be kind -- mea culpa!) Raf -- For what it is worth, my favourite version of the bible is still THE COMPANION BIBLE (kjv) by Bullinger. I have several other versions here at the house that I look at frequently, yet I always seem to gravitate back to Bullinger. He has so much more (included in his notes), than any of the others I have here. And even though he has a certain doctrinal stance that I do not agree with, he offers much more than others do. I take a look at his various appendixes, and even though they are not "God-breathed", they certainly afford more than the average "commentary". The fact that information (taught by twi), was out there for many years previously -- is something I can latch onto, and take a look at, and not discard -- and just because vpw found it also, doesn't invalidate it. When I ignore twi, and vpw, I still see 6 denials, and 4 crucified as a very real, and viable entity -- given the greek words used. There are many folks out there who are smarter than I am, and I'll let them put their reputation on the line -- making all the claims. As long as their works are published, I'll take a look at them, and consider myself lucky to have the opportunity to do so, and make an informed choice. :)-->

Speaking of twi being "glory-grabbers" -- who was the guy who was a sales rep for Martin Guitars?? He donated a coupla Martins to Way Prod. -- and it was made known to us poor peons, that Martin never endorsed anyone, yet they chose to do so in the case of twi, never letting us know that it was the rep who donated the guitars, and not the CFMartin company itself. That happened back in '77 of so (not sure of the exact year), but twi was sure glad to add one more "feather to their cap". -->

I am finding it ironic that twi couldn't rest content ("knowing they had THE WORD"), and had to have endorsements on top of it all!! :D--> I remember Collins, and Gahagan -- trotted out on stage at ROA, as if somehow their prescence validated twi, and vpw. -->

Good link. I like to go to the Think Tank as well. Somehow, their arguements, and various positions come off as pretty anemic. -->

And -- I'll go it one further. :)--> If words mean anything at all, then looking at the greek words for "other", "robber", and "malefactor" have got to be taken in context with what they meant when written. "Allos" does not mean "heteros", nor does "lestai" mean "kakourgoi", just the same as "agape" does not mean the same as "phileo". Docvic was a "blind squirrel", who stumbled on a "nut" of truth, and just because he taught it, doesn't mean that it isn't so. 4 crucified with Christ makes absolute sense, as do the 6 denials from Peter. Looking at time, location, people involved, and greek words used (in the Word), it is evident that these teachings are not just some ranting from a small town preacher who hit the "big-time", but rather something worth considering, if you have any consideration for usage of words, and their meaning.

True -- but where did they take place, and who was involved?? ;)--> John 18:17 place -- the door without, upon entering at the house of Annas -- and the questioner was the porteress; Mat. 26:70 place -- in the hall, in the house of Caiaphas, and sitting -- questioner was a certain maid; Mat. 26:71,73 place -- out on the porch of the house of Caiaphas -- questioner was another maid, and bystanders (two more accusations). There are 4 denials right there, 3 in one location, and another in a different location. Care to wager that there are two more, equally substantiated?? :D--> I'm betting on 6, not 3 -- regardless of what docvic taught. Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut, and that (imo) is an accurate description of vpw and his so-called "research". :)-->

I have to ask about #4 also. Never heard that one before. As for numbers 1 and 2, there is more than adequate proof in the Word that they are true, despite docvic's "endorsement". Number 3 is the most interesting to me. I always did think vpw was wrong about this, and it is his own teaching that condemns it. He taught that the devil can come up with nothing new on his own (right?) -- yet in the next breath he taught that the new birth (ie - born of seed) was hidden from the beginning of time, and not known to anybody. Now -- if the advo can only copy (and cannot come up with anything original), how is it that one can be born again of the wrong seed, before it was available to be born again of the right seed?? If the original "born again by seed spiritually" first became available on the day of Pentecost, and if it was something that no one but God knew, how is it possible for the adversary to do so centuries before God did it?? --> If the adversary can only copy, then new birth was available before Pentecost. If new birth was first available at Pentecost, then it was not available as "seed of the serpent" back whenever. I for one believe that those in the OT (who were really evil) could of been sold out, but I don't believe they were "born again" of the wrong seed. If Acts was the first time for mankind to be born again by seed, then it was not possible for it to have happened back in Genesis, on the reverse side of the coin.

May all your dreams come true! :)--> HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

It's a replay!

Romans 8:28 : "We know that in everything God works for good, with those that love Him, who are called according to His purpose." (Oxford) I don't think God had anything to do with his firing at all, but was able to work in the situation, despite the firing. :)-->

Oldies, you must be hungry by now, after all these pages of "discussion". I just baked some brownies, Am using the best chocolate, extra sugar, going with the "sinfully" rich and creamy frosting, using extra eggs, and oh yes -- am adding 1 cup of dog poop to it as well, but it is just a small portion of the entire recipe, so it won't contaminate the whole batch. If you believe your statement above, I'd like to serve you some home-made brownies.

I was wondering about him the other day, myself.

Thanks for all your hard work !! :)--> :)-->

Heh heh heh. :D--> I can only speculate, but if I'm right, Congrats!!

:D--> :D-->

More great photos. Thanks. (Was that a Holy Spirit pin on Oak's left pocket flap of his jacket?) :::::::::::::::: DUCKING!!!! :::::::::::::: :D--> :D-->

I was trying to get in too. Sorry to hear it. :(--> Good luck on the new one.

WordWolf -- actually, Geo may be able to help you with the $200.00 question. He was here in Minnesota around '83 or '84, and if I remember correctly, he was with a wow vet family. He might remember the cost of the class then. Good luck. :)-->

Actually, no I cannot. I guess I am equating this situation to others I see happening, and am just figuring that this will end up like so many others. Let's just say I am speaking hypothetically, since the trend towards "change", inevitably spirals downward (imo). Take the laws about porn. They get relaxed. Next thing you know, child porn is in there, and being touted as "just as right", as adult porn. Take the laws about felons denied the right to vote, yet these days -- they are being defended by some as "their vote is being overlooked". When "absolutes" are removed from our society, incongruous substitutes take their place. Sorry to say it, but it is true. It has happened time and again, over the course of the years, and recently -- has been manifested in the removal of the 10 Commandments monuments, perhaps not on the property in question, but certainly in the thought processes of those affected. I do not know for a fact that some other monument will be erected in the place that the 10 Commandments used to occupy, but given the fact that the "downward spiral" of "political expediency" seems to usually have something to fill the void, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if some sort of "politically correct" monument would be found to be placed on the grounds -- if for no other reason than to say --"We told you so, an now we are rubbing your nose in it." My political views are (or should be), known by all who come to GreaseSpot, and I have no love for the liberal viewpoint. I will fight to the death to defend that right to express an opinion, but I don't have to agree with the opinion. Nor do I agree with those that are (these days) taking sledge hammers, and wielding them at the foundation of what I consider to be us -- ie. -- read U.S. I do not see a "politically correct" monument erected where the 10 Commandments used to be, but given the crap we are being fed by the liberals, and their insatiable desire to have everything their way, and "damn the torpedoes" -- it would not surprise me one bit, if it came to pass. God Help America!! :(-->

Now ya got me thinking about it. I was WOW in '78-'79, and the price then was $100.00 (I think). I remember it going for higher, but that was when I didn't have to go door to door, asking folks to give hard earned money to an outfit in Ohio, for a dubious class on power for aberant living.