dmiller

Maybe, maybe not. He did master the *hook* though. --> I too remember seeing him in the B-ball uniform at one of those way functions. Don't remember any caption that said he was a star-player, or anything like that though.

I've heard it mentoned. Let me know if you locate a copy. It would be an interesting read.

True. With both children, and vulnerable adults. Restraining the child in order to protect her from injuring herself or others is one thing (and there is a ton of paper work that follows after it is all over), but to actually tie them, or lock them in a room will get you *free* room and board at your county jail. Some folks have what is called a *Rule 40*, which is a specific method of how they are to be *taken down*, if need be. This is signed off on by the state, the social workers, the MD's, etc. If a person needs to be taken down for violence to others, the floor is always where they go, and are held there for 3 minutes minimum. This happens on an individual basis, and is not the overall way things are done, and certainly not in the case of a 5 year old. I don't think the cops should have been called either. Since she was calm when they arrived -- they had no business putting her in cuffs, or even being there. As soon as she was calm, the person who called the police should have let them know to return to their favourite doughnut shop, where they could file a *no report* to their headquarters, and all would have been much better than it has turned out to be.

Shellon -- exactly!! Who showed up? Any pics of *before and after* drinking? Did you all have *too much fun*? How did it go?? :D-->

Sharon -- where are the gas pumps?? --> Oh -- I know, too much *snow* to see them. :D-->

Ambassador One was sold???? Who's got the Motorcoach???

That was being discussed about 6 months ago, and the general concensus was that he got it from a comic book. :D-->

Sorry Oldies -- no I can not give percentages. I'm not a guy who follows *math and numbers*, but I do listen to the heart, when it is spoken. That being said -- I have gone to a few meetings myself, and this is what I know from when I did attend. The folks that I have met who were there, blamed (mostly) themselves for getting into the situation they found themselves in. The reasons for *becoming* an alcoholic were many, and varied -- yet no one (to my knowledge) ever blamed the breweries for the situation they found themselves in. For whatever reason -- it was always *life circumstances* that drove these folks to where they ended up at. So to (un-scientifically) answer your questions -- I guess I can say that 100% (myself included) accept personal responsibility for the rut we found ourselves in. When looking at *therapy* groups like AA, or others -- I see that talking about the evil days, the controlling days, and the helpless days, does a person good, if for nothing else than to get it out of the individual person's system -- so they can move on and enjoy life. Twi is no different. If one has been hurt, abused, given their life totally to it, found themselves in the gutter as a result, an outcast from society, an enemy to family and friends, and all alone in the world abandonded by those that should have loved them most -- to me, percentages do not count, just like AA. The hurt is there. The rejection is there. The personal self-esteem is destroyed. You don't even want to get out of bed in the morning, and face the world -- cause you realize what a F***-up you are. THE ONLY thing I meant about talking things over, was just that. If that means re-hashing ancient history, so be it. Whatever works for you, or I personally, is what works. Period. Numbers and percentages don't work here -- there is only one number that works, and that is number one -- me, you, whomever. We are all number one to ourselves, and we all owe it to ourselves to do what needs to be done to rid ourselves of whatever particular *disease* is infecting us. If talking about the *old days* (regardless of addiction) helps alleviate that problem -- I'm behind it 100%, regardless of percentages.

ps -- when I first get here, it is fast. The longer I stay, the more *sluggish* it becomes. Guess that is maybe my puter, eh? The reply window always shows up quickly for me.

Act2 -- probably not, but that is a festival that I have heard only good about. Thanks for the links -- Am going to check them out now. :)-->

The North Shore Drive along Lake Superior To Grand Marais (an artsy-folksy community) is a great week-end trip, but is probably too far away for you. When I lived in Indiana, I would *get lost* on purpose in The Hoosier, driving along back country roads, never really knowing where I was, until I came upon a town, and then could see where I was on the map. :D--> Nashville Indiana is close enough to you, and the tourists probably aren't there yet like the droves that appear during summer, and peak color season in the Fall. My personal favourite get-away for a long weekend, is the Great River Road, that runs along the Mississippi River between Minnesota, and Wisconsin. The towns and the scenery can't be beat. It's been a long time since I did the trip, but I still remember feeling I had stepped back in time, and nothing was worth being in a hurry for anymore. :)--> Ps -- after you click on Great River Road, click on the *road map* link, on the left side of the page. I started it in the Onalaska/ LaCrosse area.

It's slightly better here on this end, Paw. I've never run into that "site can't be found" thing though. When I get a chance to log on at work, it is lightening fast, but they have cable there, and I am on dial-up here at the house.

Radar -- you devil, you!! :D--> :D-->

Oh -- and a short ps here --- you never know who all will show up for the party!! :D-->

Yes -- it is her 50th, and yes, I heard it in the chat room! :D--> Hope -- Have a Happy One. May you be blessed with many more. :)--> David

Cowgirl -- David here, with what I hope you see as an honest answer to your question. :)--> I've read the entire thread, and now may I say this. Don't ever say the above quote, in an AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) meeting. The speakers at those meetings have had the *worst* experiences, and are called on to speak about them all the time, because of that reason. The constant reminder of where they all once *were*, makes all in attendance thankful for where they now *are*. They (those in attendance) see the great difference that is evident in their lives, because they chose to be alcohol free, and the reminder (for each of them personally) of what they used to be like is a powerful incentive to never, ever return to what they once were. Imo -- twi is the same (in a sense) -- in that we were duped, taken for a ride, whatever you want to call it, and speaking about our (collective) experiences from twi 1/2/3, helps the healing process, since we are all examining what we once were, versus what we are now -- just like the folks that attend those AA meetings who discuss how bad they were, how down-trodden their life was, how hopeless things seemed, and how they now have a promise of a future, since they have left that which has debilitated them. Twi is a drug as powerful as alcohol. It messes with the mind, causes you to do things that you know are not right, yet you do them anyway. In my humble opinion -- discussion is good. Even if it is re-hashing the old *injustices* that happened -- it gets it out of your system, and then you can move on. It works for the folks in AA to see how *bad* they were at one time, and to re-discover their freedom. Let's let it be just as *re-habilitating* for us, as well. :)--> David

The benefits I received from twi were not perceived -- they were a reality in my life, and still are (to some degree) even today. When I found out about all the atrocities "behind the scenes", that is when I made my exit -- all the while thinking that it was not God who was wrong, but the men that claimed to be speaking for Him. God NEVER led anyone to the *good* side of twi, or to the bad side. I am not claiming that this *ministry* was God's work, but the Word that was taught drew many thousands to it (myself included), and plain and simply -- docvic screwed it up by indulging in his lusts, and addictions. Even though I NOW know about the incredible mountain of crap that happened, and the incredible amount of personal hurt suffered by many, I can say -- Yes, it was worth it -- for me then -- but such would not be the case now. AND --- the only reason I can say so, and still feel justified in answering that way is because I heard the Word taught there, regardless of the men who had a *$h!t-for-brains* lifestyle, ignoring the Word they taught. And may I also say -- I was one of the lucky ones -- I managed to escape the big hurt, the abuse, the name-calling, etc., but even if I had been one of those defamed, spit on, tossed out, called demon-possesed, on and on -- I would say the same thing for this simple reason: God and His Word still mean very much to me, and what I know now -- I learned a lot of it there. Would I go back? No. Can they offer any offer of reconciliation that will make me think better of that outfit? No. Did they abuse their positions of *spiritual authority*? Absolutely. Can I speak well of them today? No. Are they still shiftless, and conniving? Yes. Are they looking out for the interests of their *congregation*? No. Even with all the negative connotations I have about twi, I can still say I do not regret having spent time there for this simple reason: I do not equate twi and their practices with God and His Word. They taught me some of the Word, and for that I am thankful. It's too bad they had to taste the *forbidden fruit*, and be banished from the garden like Adam and Eve. When I left twi -- I did not leave God, or His Son Jesus Christ. I left twi, and all they represent. I am grateful for what I learned from them, but also ashamed that I was once part of what I now know them to be.

If twi is set on *building* something and one attempts to *fix* the discrepancies -- it will only be perceived as an attack. There isn't any criticism that they (twi) would consider constructive. And regardless of the good some try to do by working from within, all they will reap are slandering lies and false accusations -- as they are being tossed out the door, abandoned by the very *ministry* that they gave their heart and soul to. If I didn't know better -- I would say that twi originally coined the phrase: MY WAY, or the HIGHWAY.

And -- HCW -- I will (respectfully) disagree with this statement, since acknowledging mistakes made in the past, and trying to rectify said mistakes made, does not constitute thinking along the same patterns, one formerly engaged in. :)-->

And imo --- in His day and time -- Jesus was most likely considered a *cult* leader as well.

If you want a "what if" scenario -- ask the JW lady why she will go to a communinion service, and when both the bread and wine are passed her way, and she refuses both, say "How come you you pass both the plate, and the cup on to the next person, without taking a wafer, or a sip of the wine?" I was at one of those sevices (once), and it scared the hell out of me, when I heard the reasoning behind it.

The link did not work for me. :(-->

It is physically impossible to lick your own elbow. . . . . . . . (Ya tried to lick it, didn't cha!!) :D--> :D-->

Psalmie -- Good to hear you all made it safe and sound, and are settling in. :)--> (I don't know though -------------. That roof on your house looks a perfect home for a big flock of Doves!) Or is that the "woods" you were talking about? :D-->