dmiller

Shaz -- you're family. That's enough. :) Proud to help (with no patting-on-the-back). ;)

I got my house in 1980. Paid $23,500 for it. If it were to sell today, I might get $80,000 for it, and I wasn't around when twi suggested the crap they propound, about being out of debt. By the time they did, I was already out of debt, but I would have flipped them the finger, if they tried to tell me what to do with my finances, living situation, etc. I looked to them (at one time) to teach the Word of God, NOT TO TELL ME how they thought I should manage my check-book. As Ed Abbey once said ----- "I p!ss on them all, from a considerable height." :B) :B) :B)

Good link, in the original post! :)

And you are a better person, for actually checking things out for yourself. If you listen to the likes of us, and DON'T check things out, we become a *cult*, just like twi. Kudos to you for looking behind the scenes, and not just accepting *surface value*, about either us, or twi, but looking to see for yourself. :) David

Hmmmm. We have been saying the same thing, all along. This from Tom, says it all. We are trying to discuss, and you are trying to lecture. Step out from behind the pfal podium, and have a discussion, won't cha?? But then again -- we've asked you to do that for years now, haven't we? :(

Shucks -- I can face them, believe some of them, and toss out some of them as well. What I don't believe -- is that they are *God's Word re-invented*. Nor do I believe that anything in print (from vpw) should be held as doctrine, nor do I think that Jesus will descend from on high, teaching from pfal. Do I face, and believe some of what is written there? Yes. Does my rejection of some of them mean I am not *facing them*?? No. On the contrary, it proves I am facing them, and making a valid judgement. :)

Mmmmm!! Nice weather, music, bbq steaks, and drink ~~~ PARTY TIME!!!!!!

Shaz -- Happy belated. :) Hey -- your birthday doesn't show up on the GS Calendar, so how wuz we suppozed to know? Revelation???? :blink: :blink: Regardless -- I sent in a donation for the Doc. (if your left hand was sprained -- does that make you *all right*??) (sorry -- bad joke, eh?) :unsure: God bless, and good luck. Hope you are feeling/doing better. David

I could drive from here to california, listening to this!! This is road music! Black Ice *Black Ice*. What a great name (for this time of year).

Ha! That's only part of the story. ;) Back in *the days* (when there was a prolific amount of wow's up here), they all showed up there on Wednesday nights, to witness. From what I remember, most twigs met on Tuesday and Thursday nights, with a branch get-together Sunday mornings (least-ways our twig operated that way). On any given Wednesday night, purt near half the crowd was made up of wow's, and bible was the discussion going on all around, while we all swatted out our Bluegrass music. Hey -- the wow's knew a good thing when they saw it -- it was a helluva lot more fun to witness there, rather than at the mall! One wow family co-ordinater got ticked off at me, cause our jams were more popular than his twig was. Hee- hee- hee! (No surprise there --- eh??) ;) We all pick around a big round table, so we can see and hear what the others are playing, and he called our jam session a big *circle jerk*. He got reprimanded pretty heavily by the branch leader for criticizing a good opportunity for all the others to witness, so he shut up after a while. :) That was all before Geo was here in town. George -- didn't you come here as a wow-vet?? I seem to think so, but am not sure. That was a whole 'nother crew of way-folks that graced the halls of Sir Ben's on Wednesday nights. The wow-vets also hung out at Sir Ben's, and reguarly talked bible with the patrons. One patron in particular (he still comes down there today), was Roger Cragun, who wrote a book called: THE ULTIMATE HERESY, THE DOCTRINE OF BIBLICAL INERRANCY. I remember him, and several of the wow-vets getting into it about the inerrancy of the Word, and the deity of Christ pretty hot and heavy. :) Roger still shows up these days, and he and I do the same *dialouge*, from years past (neither of us have changed, in that respect). Although I do have to say, that both he and I have learned to agree to disagree with each other. The more things change, the more they remain the same. :)

Who shot jfk?? I might be able to answer that, when I know who actually brought down the wtc. (there is a conspiracy theory about that one, too.)

Greasy Tech -- Pm me with a snail mail addy, and I'll send you everything I have from the 1986 era. You may or may not find it useful, but it's your's if you want it. Ps -- I think I sent Pat all I had on the clergy meetings. If you can put all of it up here for easy persual, I think it might be a good thing. I have lots of letters from one clergy to another -- from that time period. I'm not sure how relevant those may be, given how things have turned out over these past two decades. That would be your call. :)

Geo -- the road (Superior street) is still there. It''s between the *grassy knoll*, and Sir Ben's. :)

Ps -- a friend of mine (from southern Indiana -- who lives up here), showed up with his bagpipes. He played a few tunes, and true to form, there were kids there -- all right in front of him, drinking in the music, while most of us adults were covering our ears, cause it was so loud.

Bill -- where to even begin???!!! :) Sir Ben's is actually a 1931 Pure Oil gas staion, that has been renovated into a tavern/sandwich shop. The two windows with the red awnings you see (on the right), were originally the garage doors, leading into the service bay, the pumps were out front (by where the front door now is, and the window with the red awning (on the left), was the office/ waiting area. The building is at least 75 years old, and was turned into a *sandwich shop* in 1978, the year I ended up here in Duluth as a WOW. The grass you see (in the first pic), is above the I-35 freeway tunnel right in front of Sir Ben's -- and that tunnel threatened the establishment's existence, back in 1981. A guy by the name of Jack Arnold, bought the dilapidated (now no longer *in service*) gas station, back in 1977 (thereabouts). He had ulterior motives, since he was on some sort of planning commission, and knew the freeway was slated to go through there, and also knew that the gas station was slated for destruction. Short of the long of it is -- he bought it, turned it into a sandwich shop, then hoped to sell for a profit, once the freeway came through. What he did not plan on, was the local greenies, and their hearty disapproval of the freeway, and the many years of legal battles that ensued. By the time the legal battles were ended, he had a viable business up and running, and had changed his mind about selling for a profit (realizing he had the goose that laid the golden egg), and was willing to get them one at a time, rather than all at once. Enter me and my friends. :) I stopped in there for a cup of coffee, taking a break from looking for work when I first moved up here, and his wife (Betty), dropped by my table (Yea -- I was reading the Word!), to thank me for stopping in. She found out I picked, and invited me to invite my friends to come down and do *jam* sessions there. I had no friends here (at that point -- who picked), but it didn't take me long to find a cadre of bluegrasser's up here, and I repeated her invitation to to me (to them), when they were wondering where we could all get together publically, and pick. Well -- we started picking there in August of 1978, on Wednesday nights -- and it became so hugely popular here in town, that public tide against the demolition of Sir Ben's swelled to the point, that the state finally relented, and allowed it to stand. It took some work to get to that point, but suffice it to say -- it was accomplished, and that is where we all still pick today. Yup -- we were playing Irish, Old-tyme, you name it tonight, and it was a true treat. One of the 8 fiddlers we had there tonight, was a young lady who is now a college student, and first showed up there when she first was learning fiddle, many years ago. Her mother (in attendance then), was in attendance tonight playing penny-whistle, along with the 4 guitarists we had, the two bass players we had, the 3 boudhran players, and the 2 mando pickers, and one cello player! The neat thing about Sir Ben's is -- even though it is a tavern, kids are allowed there, if accompianied by their folks. There are countless kids who have come and gone (through the years), to sit and learn a style of music offered by us, and not many others (up here). Ours has always been a *kid friendly* jam*, welcoming everyone from rank beginner, to experienced adult. (Quick story -- you might find it amusing ----) I went for a loan, to buy a new car. Haven't been in debt for around 20 years. The loan officer said -- *Hey!! You're Dave Miller. The fiddler from Sir Ben's!!". My consternation must have showed, because she followed up with -- *You were one of the one's that let me sit in with my viola there in Sir Ben's when I was in grade school!!" :blink: Like I say -- we've been at it for a while, and yes -- I'm feeling pretty old, recounting all this. Rhino -- that building has more stories to tell, than you could ever imagine, even if most of them do start about 27 years ago. Where-in-the-hell-did-the-years-go???

Oh -- here is the view from the *front porch* you see in the Sir Ben's pic. :) (this scene is at the photographer's back, as he took the pic of Sir Ben's.)

We'll be playing music here tonight, full force. :) (I better get the fiddle in tune -- there'll be about 30 others picking there tonight). Sir Ben's is a small place, but we've been doing music there for nigh on 27 years now. Tonight, we will actually have to kick out some of the patrons, so we have room to *wield* the fiddle bows.

Haven't voted yet, because they both work about the same for me. It does seem to take a bit longer to get into live chat (for me), but I like the smilies there better. Once Hap explained how to set personal settings, I like the fact that I can just log into Flash chat, and everything is set up already. Both are pretty good, but so far I lean towards flash chat. Will flash chat be shut down for a while so the *new* live chat will be in exclusive use, for *choice* perusal? I went to both of them the other night, and folks were only in the flash room.

OH NOOOOO! That must be where Robertson get's the *demon inspired* rhetoric he's been spewing lately!! Naw --- they went to the good Pat R. (Roberge) -- up in Vermont. ;)

I wasn't there either, but I have a set of the meeting notes (given to me by a friend who was there). It was November 1986. Coupla years ago, I sent them to Pat R., and you can read the notes HERE AT EXCULTWORLD.

Happy St. Pat's Day to you too. :)

Have a good one, OE!! (Ayuh!)

Twist and shout ~~~ so be it.

Shucks -- that there seems QUITE *cut and clear * to me. (You go and twist it any way you want.) If you want us to read docvic's words *as written*, please don't forget to include these as well.:)