dmiller

There you go mentioning tapes again. Why?????? Everytime one of us does so, you relegate it to the gutter --- Saying only WRITTEN PFAL counts. WHEN are you going to make up your mind??? <_< <_<

Hey -- can you quote me *chapter and verse* from pfal on that?? Sounds like you are ready to accept the premise, with no *documentatiion*. ;)

and when I said this --- I did forget to mention the teaching of something that was truth, vs. the personal agenda of the teacher. (which we all know vpw had going on -- agenda -- that is).

If I may -- I would like to clarify something here (that has been brought to my attention in PM). What I said here --- refers to Tom Heller, and NOT to Tom Strange. Sorry for the mix-up. :) David

I hear that. :) Now -- I need to get out of here (the house), and get the Sultan's of Swing CD. I'll find it at either Walmart, or the Electic Fetus. ;)

ChattyKathy -- fer what it's worth -- I have heard Socks and Ted talking about Joyful Noise as well, and their (combined) involvement in it. And that doesn't include the quote you provided. :) Uncomfortable? -- yea -- it must have beeen for a bit, but rest easy. ;)

Hey there, Hopefull. God bless, and Happy Birthday. :) Thinking of you today, and wishing you the best. David

Raf -- Nice poem!! You're a poet, And you know it, and also your feet show it. (they're *longfellows*) ;)

Ok -- I can do that. :) Instead of eating fish and spitting out bones, let's just say I took in what was good, and got rid of the refuse. Since I am in accordance with SOME of the beliefs taught in twi, and since MOST of the beliefs I am in accordance with are found in off-shoots, and since SOME the off-shoots (so far) have not seen fit to micro-manage, I have no problem with off-shoots, and prefer the teachings I find there -- over those found in community churches -- (although I have gone to a few of them as well). I'm not denigrating community churches here by any means. I have heard many a good sermon at a few, and the folks there were stellar. Genuine, caring, friendly, and given my experiences at these places -- I would attend again. So -- in essence -- it is the teachings offered by off-shoots (minus the *iron-fisted* authority evinced by twi) that is *attractive*. They are offering *fish* -- (food for thought) -- twi offers *bones* -- skeletal remains, worthy of spitting out.

Sure --- it was taught in twi. ;)

Is that *ALL* without exception? Or *ALL* with distinction??

Gear Aquisition Syndrome. :)

HAPe belated, Hap. :)

Simple --- we ate the fish, and spit out the bones. :)

An astute observation, Tom. I was wondering too. ;)

Well -- if ya can't *love them into living* ~~~~~

Hmmm. So if Einstein says E=MC2, and he was a dirty old lecher teaching this to young college girls, while getting paid to be a scientist/professor, then according to the quote above his stated *truth* of E=MC2 would be carnal, shallow, and a cynical approach to the scientific community. Eh??

Socks -- a G.A.S trip?? ;)

Hey there Revvel. :)You bring up some good (and interesting) points. What I am having trouble with, is the way you interchange the word *rapture with *return*. Granted --- the Return was taught in the OT, and certainly the Isrealites looked to that as their *Hope*. They knew of messiah Ben-Joseph (the suffering servant), and messiah Ben-David (the conquering king), and that was what the return was to them --- deliverance from all their enemies. What was NOT taught in the OT, was the rapture, so I don't see how you can inter-changably use the two terms, to describe one event -- (which is what I am seeing -- though I could be wrong.) The church (as we know it today) was a *non-entity* when the OT prophecies were given. The Church (started on the day of Pentecost -- in the book of Acts), had a distinct beginning. therefore it could NOT have been prophicied about, before the day of Pentecost when the folks there first spoke in tongues. Docvic called it the Mystery, but others have more properly labeled it the Sacred Secret. Secrets can be revealed, mysteries remain unknown. If the rapture had been a valid *topic for prophecy* in the OT, then these verses would not be true. Signs are looked for by those who expect the return. Signs will not be signalling the rapture. A unique ending, to a unique administration, that only God knew about. The church (started on the Day of Pentecost in Acts), had that unique beginning, and so it will have a unique end --- the Rapture -- not spoken of in the OT, just like the *church of the Body* wasn't spoken of. No one knew about it back then, so the Return has to be a different occurrance. I am of the opinion that Jesus was not God, therefore He Himself, did not know what was *in the books* (so to speak), and only spoke of what He read from the OT. Nor (IMO) did He know about the Administration of Grace, so when Jesus spoke of the return -- it obviously couldn't have been speaking about the Rapture, of which He had no knowledge of (at that time). Good thread!! :)

I don't listen to *rock and roll* much, but I love Dire Straits. :)

WAV What a beautiful melody. :) Who was that?

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)