dmiller

godmadegirl1983 - - - thanks for the come back there with your opinions on the topic. I'll have to disagree with you on several points. Number one: I don't see ANYTHING I did as wrong. Question for you here (if I may?) :) Let's say you're interested in learning more about (for arguments sake) a view held by a political party and you see a bumper sticker on a car in front of you in traffic, espousing the "merits" of that party. Suddenly you have a supporter of said party handy for you to ask questions of, and get some first hand knowledge, rather than rhetoric spewed from other sources. Wouldn't you (as an interested person in what the bumper sticker promoted) follow that car (if you could and had the time to do so) to ask questions of the person driving?? That's what I did, and that's what I think anyone who is interested in any "cause" promoted by a bumper sticker might do in my stead. Now - - - I figured that wasn't her Jeep. AND - - - i never knew she was "terrified" as you claim. She was smiling when she and I were talking, and (as previously mentioned), she offered her hand to me first in parting. If she has personal problems, don't lay that on MY doorstep, eh? You (and others) are judging my actions from the CES/STF viewpoint of me being "an ex-member stalker". Excuse me if I have this wrong, but this is the perspective that I'm reading given the comments received so far. Nothing could be further from the truth (GOT TRUTH?). I find it amazing, that folks who weren't anywhere near the area, NOR were there when she and I talked able to offer such competent/ succinct/ and glib replies as to what actually happened. Ya know - - - I'm surprised (really - - I am) to hear that she was so "terrified" of both myself and the situation. She sure as heck didn't show it when I was talking to her. She was both an amiable and friendly person to talk to (although clueless about JAL and CES), and if she was "terrified" (as has been said a couple of times now), she sure-as-hell-hid-it-well and though I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I would have known if I was causing discomfort. I'm tired of explaining my actions to those who don't have a clue, but love to speculate about others. What I did was strictly for my own info, and for my info only. She looked comfortable there while we were talking, so DON'T tell me I'm a predatory monster of some sort for being curious about a "ministry" I used to support monthly. Oh - - - I have one more thing to add that you (godmadegirl) probably don't know about me. I've been a partner for CES for many, many years, even though I no longer choose to support them. Do you need a back tape from 1990 to 2007?? Perhaps you need a copy of one of the many seminars they've offered? I've got them all, AND - - - I specifically made sure my "partnership" for CES went directly to the Biblical Unitarian site, and also the Truth or Tradition site. Given my past support of the ORG, can you blame me for wanting to know about them (these days)? I've talked to DG/ JS/ JAL/ MG/ Jeff/ and KG when I had questions, and I got some very nice/ sincere/ heartfelt answers that were a whole lot of smoke, with little substance to the "fire". suffice it to say - - - I've contacted the "higher ups", and had gotten nowhere fast. You may be involved with CES (these days) and if you are, I hope you're happy with your choice. I have no use for them, given my past involvement. And - - - if you're hearing she was "terrified" there in the parking lot, someone's blowing smoke. And it isn't me.

OldSkool - - - You are ALWAYS welcome at The Way - - - errrrrrrr, uhmm, Grease Spot!

Hello all. :) This is for those who read my story of being in Bloomington, In. and seeing a "GOT TRUTH?" bumper sticker on a Jeep and followed the resulting firestorm in that thread. There were some accusations, insinuations, and speculations made about me and my intentions, so I'll clear the air right here and now for those that care to listen. My intentions (when I first saw the bumper sticker) were nothing more than to follow the vehicle to talk to the driver about the current state of CES. Sorry - - I don't like the STF name, so I'm going to refer to the ORG as CES. Anyway - - - I was hardly "pursuing" the vehicle as some seem to think. For those familiar with Bloomington, the Jeep passed me right by Cascades Park (north end of town), and went through town to the hospital, then turned west on 2nd street heading towards the Highland Village/ Walmart end of town and pulled into a Quiznos sub shop parking lot in a VERY public area. I had NO CLUE as to whether the driver was male or female, nor did I care. If they were advertising CES on their car's rear bumper, I figured they might know something that I didn't, thus my interest in a bit of "first-hand-information". Is that asking too much?? When the driver parked and got out of the car, (I'll refrain from using names here - - - Sorry about that Billy D and Paw!) She didn't even realize I was there until I said "Hello!" :) (with a smile in my voice). She walked right toward me realizing there was NO THREAT. As Linda Z pointed out, I'm a tall guy and EVERYONE is short to me and I like to put folks at ease when I talk with them so - - - - - - - I did then what I always do. My left foot went out in front of me, my right knee got bent, to where I'm more on "other folks" level that way. Plus - - - I make it a point to keep an "open" stance with hands/ body language/ etc. to put others at ease. Maybe this is unorthodox behavior to most of you, but I've found that being 8 or so inches taller than most, is intimidating and I like to alleviate that as much as I can when talking to others. If i were to meet someone like Michael Jordan, the opposite would be true! So - - - I was hardly being aggressive, nor did I know her from Adam (or Eve as the case may be), and she volunteered the info that DG was her father. I asked a few simple questions STRICTLY about JAL and CES and his departure. Nothing more, nothing less. No animosity, merely looking for answers. And - - - I find nothing wrong in following a car through town that has a bumper sticker on it, advertising a group I'd like to ask questions about. Following a car advertising a group/ ministry/ whatever/ hardly constitutes "malicious intent", eh? Unless it's by an ex-CES guy following a CES sticker. This next here is for Billy D: I had no knowledge of her history. She offered (immediately) that DG was her father, so I had no idea she had just moved back to the area. You mentioned that I "greatly upset and scared her" by the encounter there in a public mall parking lot. Did she tell you that?? We were both laughing and smiling at the time, and she offered her hand first to shake mine when we went our separate ways. I had NO intentions of "grilling" whomever the driver was about CES. The only question on my mind was about JAL, and that's ALL I asked about. I neither "peppered" her with questions, nor was I "aggressive with animosity". I figured that if DG was her Dad, she must be in the know. I see now that was an egregious assumption on my part, and for that I apologize. My "chip on the shoulder" (as you call it) is for CES, and it grows smaller daily since I figure they are going to do whatever they want to do, and keep their "faithful" in the dark I have not yet (nor do I ever intend to) take it out on individual members. That would be uncool. I hope this explanation of that day in Bloomington satisfies your (and all others here's) questions/ accusations/ etc. I meant no harm. Yes - - - I am proud of myself for being able to follow her all the way to her destination. Traffic in Bloomington is horrendous, and I almost lost her several times! So - - - now that I've (hopefully) explained this a bit better, I hope you understand. My original post was in answer to a question about the BOD of CES. Had I known that my post would cause all-sorts-of-fire-and-brimstone-responses, I might have thought twice about posting what I did. But - - - this site never changes. Even the best of intentions/ posts will always get called into question. Have yourself a great day, eh? David P.S. - - - - The last CES function I was at was the first "Fall Festival" (or something like that) several years ago. There was a guy on stage who did a song about peanut butter to wild cheering from the audience. Was that you Billy?? Or was it someone else?

Well what do you know - - - I come back to this thread after posting on it (about) 6 days ago about a mere bumper sticker and my interest in what was going on with CES/STF, and to my COMPLETE surprise find the firestorm that ensued as a result of my telling you all the story. Maybe I should have worded it better. In order to NOT further detract from this thread, look for a new topic on the subject. Thank you. :) David

For what it's worth - - - this site NEVER reached for me. I came looking and found both it and answers I'd been looking for for years. Have you any other asinine observations to make, or do you want to quit while your ahead?? The ball is in your court.

Hey there Jeff. How be ye?? :) I remember once (back in the mid 1990's - - - I think it was around that time), I was at Victor's house when I was invited there by JAL (who called me "out of the blue") to let me know he was doing an "informational meeting" about CES there. It was (to say the least), a VERY interesting "teaching session", since JAL, Victor B. and another guy named Greg Pharis taught at that weekend meeting. JAL was teaching about a bunch of stuff (highlighting the AOS film and the mistakes found therein. Greg Pharis was teaching on "Personal Prophecy", and Victor taught on how the church was really the bride of Christ, and not the Jewish folk like docvic taught. Talk about a cluster- f***- mishmash of teachings all in one weekend, and we were supposed to believe them all?? HA! The only reason I showed up was because the Old Time Music group (The Wild Thyme String Band from here in Duluth Mn.) that I was picking guitar/ mandolin/ and fiddle for was doing a square dance nearby and I had the time on my hands to visit the "meeting", and was in the neighborhood. Add JAL's phone call (out of the blue) to that, and I decided to show up to see what was happening (those days). It was a cluster **** of a meeting because JAL didn't recognize Pharis' claims that Jesus is God (though he WAS trying to learn how to do "personal prophecy" from Greg while Greg totally "dissed" both JAL and Victor for their beliefs, while trying to promote his own, and Victor had that smug attitude of "You're in MY HOUSE, so what I say counts"! Too many egos, and all under one roof vying for the attention of those of us who happened to be in attendance. Maybe you were there too, I don't know. JAL finally severed his association with Greg Pharis (so I heard in an email from JAL), because of Greg's insistence that Jesus is God even though he hung on to the personal prophecy thing. I'm thinking he (JAL) cut ties with Victor B. because of his insistence that the church is the "Bride of Christ". Greg cut ties with both Victor and JAL because he saw them as "heretics" (my word describing the situation) who wouldn't see things as he did, and Victor decided he was right, and all others were wrong. You Jeff, can tell me if I'm right or if I'm wrong since you were closer to the "moment" than I was. But that's my recollection from (about) 15 years ago and the River Road Fellowship. Now - - - I've got a question - - - (if I may). You mentioned Mike. When I was a newbie on the computer (back in 2003 or 2004) and when I was on AOL I got an instant message from a guy named Mike, about PFAL and Minnesota. There was a phone number attached, and since I was gonna be up late that night anyway I decided to give it a call. Turned out it was from your area there in the Minneapolis region, and I ended up talking to the guy for a coupla hours or so about PfAL/ docvic/ teachings/ etc. He mentioned that he was up from 6 AM to midnight, so he could be there for "his people", and also described his home there as "the ranch", designed to look just like the "headquarters" over in New Knoxville, Ohio. He also told me how to get hold of 88 CD's of every one of docvic's teachings from someone in Colorado. I wasn't interested in the CD's of docvic, but we kept on talking anyway. He (when we got done with the phone call that night), said something about "Call me. Ask for Rev. Richter (I think that was the name), anytime". I'm only asking this, because what I experienced many years ago sounds eerily familiar. Am wondering if I talked with one of the River Road Fellowship folks when I gave "Mike" a call that night in answer to that IM. I'm guessing I did. Maybe you don't know the Mike that is such a supporter of docvic, and the pfal class, and the "integrity of the word" written in the way magazines here at the GSC. Back when this site had a different format, private messages were much different than they are now. The GSC Mike and I talked a lot, and I passed on to him "Rev. Richter's" phone number. It was a match made in Heaven. The two of them couldn't agree more about "stuff". Sorry for disrupting your thread here. Thought to mention a couple of things and ask a question, since you would be the one to answer best. :)

Double post. Sorry!

This is one of the most beautiful tunes I've heard in a long time. The older I get, the more I appreciate "contemplative music". This fills the bill nicely. To be able to pick like this and ruminate about life at the same time would be Heaven on Earth (imo). You pickers out there most likely know what I'm talking about, eh? <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Thanks for that Factfinder. I kinda got the same impression (again) just last week when I was in Bloomington, Indiana for an extended stay there. While driving through town, a Jeep passed me ( a NICE Jeep with oversized tires/ chrome wheels/ body lift/ etc., etc.). As the Jeep went by, I saw one of these bumper stickers on the rear bumper: Not having anything better to do at the time, I followed it all the way through town so as to talk to the driver and see if they could tell me anything about what the heck was going on (these days) with "da ministry". Long story short - - - The Jeep pulled into a Quiznos sandwich shop on the far end of town, and the driver got out. I pulled up and parked next to it, and as the driver walked away oblivious of me (even though I had been following it for 4 or 5 miles), I had to say "HEY!!!! Hang on there!" She (it was a she), turned and looked surprised at being talked to. I mentioned I had seen the bumper sticker on her Jeep, and was wondering is she was a member of STFI?? With a detached voice she said: "Oh yeah. My Dad is Dan Gal!agher." She said her name was *a**ie (or something like that, I don't remember now). Nuff said for me. So, I asked her about the "departure" of JAL and what was up with all that? I got a blank stare. I realized I was going to have to do the talking. So I asked if John left because of personal issues, or if it was a doctrinal split between him an the "rest of the crew" there. I got the same vacant stare, and then she said, "Oh yea. I think it was a doctrinal thing between them all". After giving a one sentence answer to direct questions and offering nothing else, I figured she was more in the mood for a sandwich and not questions. Realizing I was getting nowhere fast, I bid her good day after telling her I used to be a CES/STFI partner once a while back. She smiled, didn't seem to recognize my name (that's O.K. with me) and headed to her sandwich shop, and I wondered if I'd been "had". Either - - - she was being deliberately vague with me, or she was REALLY and totally clueless about what was happening with "da ministry". I couldn't imagine DG's own daughter (if she really was involved) not knowing what was going on. Perhaps she bought into the "smoke screen" facade. Either way - - - It was a scary proposition to try and figure out, especially if I was actually gonna have to choose between the two options. Factfinder - - - for what it's worth back in 2007, I was a partner with CES/STFI and the sh!!t was hitting the fan internally there then and they were saying NOTHING about anything that was going on. Guess it's hard to teach "old dog's new tricks, eh? I see them as "close-mouthed today, as they were back then. I was supremely p!$ed off that I (and all other "partners") were kept in the dark about what was happening as if we didn't matter at all. Which - - - - in essence is the truth, unless you count the money that was funneled into the "Org". I'm sure you're familiar with the old "mushroom" definition, eh? Even though I had been a "partner" with CES, I didn't get a damn clue about what was going on there, until I read it here at GSC. I fired off some emails to Graeser/ Lynn/ Shoenheit/ and Gallagher and actually got responses from all of them - - - but only since I was asking. I'm NOT going to post those emails I received from them here, but suffice it to say - - - each one of the laid the blame at another's doorstep rather than their own. I don't remember who said it (if I recollect it was a twi luminary), but the saying is as true now as it was spoken then: "YOU CAN'T POLISH A TURD". (edited for spelling)

Ironic. This topic is being discussed on another website. I'll post it here for you. :) "Hello. Wrong: I played Bobs banjo. Right: I played Bob's banjo. The most common mistake is the use of an apostrophe to indicate a plural noun. Wrong: 5 banjo's for sale. Right: 5 banjos for sale. Wrong: I drive car's for a living. Right: I drive cars for a living. Rule 1. Use the apostrophe with contractions. The apostrophe is always placed at the spot where the letter(s) has been removed. Examples: don't, isn't You're right. She's a great teacher. Rule 2. Use the apostrophe to show possession. Place the apostrophe before the s to show singular possession. Examples: one boy's hat one woman's hat one actress's hat one child's hat Ms. Chang's house NOTE: Although names ending in s or an s sound are not required to have the second s added in possessive form, it is preferred. Mr. Jones's golf clubs Texas's weather Ms. Straus's daughter Jose Sanchez's artwork Dr. Hastings's appointment (name is Hastings) Mrs. Lees's books (name is Lees) Rule 3. Use the apostrophe where the noun that should follow is implied. Example: This was his father's, not his, jacket. Rule 4. To show plural possession, make the noun plural first. Then immediately use the apostrophe. Examples: two boys' hats two women's hats two actresses' hats two children's hats the Changs' house the Joneses' golf clubs the Strauses' daughter the Sanchezes' artwork the Hastingses' appointment the Leeses' books Rule 5. Do not use an apostrophe for the plural of a name. Examples: We visited the Sanchezes in Los Angeles. The Changs have two cats and a dog. Rule 6. With a singular compound noun, show possession with 's at the end of the word. Example: my mother-in-law's hat Rule 7. If the compound noun is plural, form the plural first and then use the apostrophe. Example: my two brothers-in-law's hats Rule 8. Use the apostrophe and s after the second name only if two people possess the same item. Examples: Cesar and Maribel's home is constructed of redwood. Cesar's and Maribel's job contracts will be renewed next year. Indicates separate ownership. Caesar and Maribel's job contracts will be renewed next year. Indicates joint ownership of more than one contract. Rule 9. Never use an apostrophe with possessive pronouns: his, hers, its, theirs, ours, yours, whose. They already show possession so they do not require an apostrophe. Examples: Correct: This book is hers, not yours. Incorrect: Sincerely your's. Rule 10. The only time an apostrophe is used for it's is when it is a contraction for it is or it has. Examples: It's a nice day. It's your right to refuse the invitation. It's been great getting to know you. Rule 11. The plurals for capital letters and numbers used as nouns are not formed with apostrophes. Examples: She consulted with three M.D.s. BUT She went to three M.D.s' offices. The apostrophe is needed here to show plural possessive. She learned her ABCs. the 1990s not the 1990's the '90s or the mid-'70s not the '90's or the mid-'70's She learned her times tables for 6s and 7s. Exception: Use apostrophes with capital letters and numbers when the meaning would be unclear otherwise. Examples: Please dot your i's. You don't mean is. Ted couldn't distinguish between her 6's and 0's. You don't mean Os. Rule 12. Use the possessive case in front of a gerund (-ing word). Examples: Alex's skating was a joy to behold. This does not stop Joan's inspecting of our facilities next Thursday. Rule 13. If the gerund has a pronoun in front of it, use the possessive form of that pronoun. Examples: I appreciate your inviting me to dinner. I appreciated his working with me to resolve the conflict."

"Hoosier Hospitality Is No Accident". That used to be the state motto. Perhaps it's time to revive that again, eh??

This one reminds me of me and my friends (back in "the day") living the moment. Here's Old Crow Medicine Show doing some "Dylan Grass". <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

It's been a while since I've been online here at GSC. Was in Indiana for the past two weeks helping take care of my Dad. For those of you who know about his condition (Shellon, Bowtwi, etc.), he's OK, but getting more and more frail by the day. Regardless - - - that's not what I want to talk about. My folks live about 10 miles (if even that) from Camp Vision which is run by the Stiffy group. I had some time off from doing "duties" as far as pertains Dad's healthcare while I was down there, and my favorite pastime when in southern Indiana is driving around and enjoying the scenery with my banjo/ fiddle/ mandolin/ etc., and stopping wherever i want to pick a tune or two. While out on the highways just the other day (Highway 37 north from Bloomington to Martinsville) I saw some Camp Vision signs out there on the highway with an arrow pointing the direction to the camp. I thought - - - "What the ....????" I knew where the camp was/ is, but I figured something must be going on for them to put the signs out there for everyone to see. Curiosity got the better of me, so I headed off of the main road into the hills and the back road that leads to Camp Vision (yes - - - I've been there before, and knew the way to where it was "sans signs"). Seems like every mile (or less) there was a sign directing you to Camp Vision. When I got there, I noticed a gate (with a padlock on it) that wasn't there the last time I had been there for a "drive through". Gate was open, so I drove through, took a look, turned around, and left. Back at Mom and Dad's house, I got on the computer and clicked into the STFI site, and found out that there was a "Men's Retreat" happening this weekend (with the topic being "Contending For the Faith") for a mere $195.00 per person fee. I can't give you a link for the "retreat" because it's been removed from the website, but I (for the life of me) can't imagine paying $195.00 to stay in (what I would call) primitive lodging to hear them talk about "Contending For The Faith" as interpreted by the STFI "luminaries" for a whole 3 day event. Camp Vision is owned and paid for by STFI. They don't have to pay rent for the facilities when they run an "event" there. So what the hell is the 195 bucks for??? Beats me, unless it's the old twi mentality creeping out of the background where you get a lot for offering little. Well - - - all you guys missed out on this "Men's Retreat" this weekend of October 23rd through October 25th, but take heart, eh?? You can still register for the "Silent Retreat" that's going to happen on October 28th through November 1st. For a mere 150 bucks, you can open your wallet/ attend/ and shut-the-hell-up. What a deal, eh? Here's the link, should you be interested - - - - SILENT RETREAT

Paw - - - thanks for posting that email. David

Here's a pic of the Metropolitan Stadium, that the Twins played in from 1961 to 1981. :)

Good question, Andy. :) Yes, they used to play outside. Not sure if the climate has changed that much (over these years - - - but RumRunner might disagree!) The thing about the weather (and open air baseball) up here is, lot's of folks make plans for a certain weekend, to go and see a game and will travel great distances to see it. I've gone to two or three Twins games (planned in advance to take the folks who live at the group home I work at), and we traveled 175 miles (one way) to see the game. One of those games would have been cancelled due to rain, if it hadn't ben for the Dome. When we left Duluth, the weather was fine in Minneapolis. When we got there, it was raining cats and dogs and the game would've been called for rain (if not for the Dome), and our trip would have been for nought. That's a typical story about folks (such as myself) who travel from "out-state" Minnesota to the big city to see a Twins game once or twice a season. Another aspect up here is the temperature. In the early season and in the late season, it's downright COLD here. Can't imagine sitting out in COLD weather for 9 innings. :o When we did get down to the Dome to see a game or two, I will admit that I "lost the ball" myself when it reached towards the roof of the Dome. Perhaps the interior of the Dome could be a different color than white. That makes sense to me, but so does a roof over major league sports here in Minnesota. :) (edited for spelling)

I don't usually frequent this forum, but I just HAD to see what folks here were saying about the Twins after yesterdays win over the Tigers. :) What a game, eh? For two nights in a row, the Dome rocked with full capacity crowds to see the Vikings on Monday, and the Twins on Tuesday. Worldwide viewing of the Viking/ Packer game on ESPN was 21.8 million folks watching Brett work against his former team of 15 years. By doing so, he became the first quarterback in history to beat all 32 NFL teams. Anticipation of that game ran VERY high here in Minnesota. By Tuesday, the football field had disappeared and a baseball diamond replaced it. There was a massive pile-up of fans outside the dome getting their will-call tickets. Ironically, had this game been played outside (instead of the dome) it would have been called for rain, which was coming down in torrents during the game. As it was - - - it went on uninterrupted all the way to the 12th inning. This was the last baseball game that the Twins will ever play at the Dome. Next year the new Twins ball park is supposed to open. No Dome, no roof, no nothing to protect from the "elements" up here. Baseball is nice outside, and the new ball park is configured for the sport (unlike the Dome), but the weather here is too finicky to ignore a roof for major league sports. Anyway, enough about the Dome. Speculation and discussion (up here) is running rampant, about whether this team is as good as the 87 or 91 teams who took the Series. The Twins went into the last couple of days two games down, and came out on top. Perhaps they can continue, and perhaps not. We'll see, eh? ;) (edited to add a picture of the new Twins Ballpark)

Hmmm. If you went directly to Bullinger, shouldn't there (also) be an "Also" in there, somewhere?? :blink: :blink: (The cartoon taken from) - - - - - > > > THIS SITE. (edited to add second cartoon)

Far cry from AC 79, eh?

PBR is not much different than Budweiser, and little more than "water with a kick". As someone once said: "Take me out back of the stables where the horses p!s$, and I'll show you where that beer REALLY comes from." Mixing Guinness with "domestic beer" is a travesty.

Was he "flicking" drambui, errrr, uhhhhh - - - "holy water" at you?? :unsure:

You are assuming (of course) that the very first time I spoke in tongues was a result of session 12. That's B as in B, and S as in S. Docvic's "class" was - - - well, I'd best not say. Even on this site. A charismatic Catholic fellowship I attended previous to twi taught all the same stuff - - - for free. To answer your other "where were you" questions: JFK was assassinated when I was in 6th grade. I was at work busting my a$$ when the towers fell. I was at a music camp in Morehead Kentucky, when man first stepped on the moon. We were learning and discussing theory concerning keyboards and the music thereof, though those who played wind or stringed instruments were welcome at those sessions also. :) If you want to know the truth Waysider - - - I never did give a ratz a$$ about where docvic was or what he was doing while I was spending my money taking classes, or "this or that" offered by the Org. I find it immaterial/ and redundant to speculate now. I mean really - - - - Who gives a $h!t. Just say he was drunk, and let it go at that. That would be the truth 99.99% of the time.