dmiller

What I figured, Paw. Bu thanks for the heads up, regardless. I guess anyone who's going to argue about one word defining a "class" (such as has been in evidence), isn't really worth spending time answering. And that's only one of several "youthful indiscretions" made. Hey there Heckler - - - Since this is your welcome thread (as you've pointed out), You could've just said "HI! I'm new here!", and let it go at that. Plenty of other forums here on the site to start a discussion on, if you choose to do so. Good luck and God bless.

What gives?? well, I'd guess part of "what gives" is the age difference between you and I. When I was growing up, "dealing" with something meant to confront it and defeat it if necessary. I guess words don't hold the same meaning (these days), that they used to, eh?

America "dealt" with Japan back in the 40's. By "dealing with", we also defeated.

Pond nailed it. Read her two previous posts, and you have CES/STFI in a nutshell.

OK - - - I've read though this thread, and I guess I'll toss in my 2 cents worth. First and foremost, I have no problem buying a book, musical CD, etc., (be it from Amazon/ individual author/ CES/ or whomever. I figure if an author "did the work", spent money to get it published and spent money to promote it, it's worth it (should I choose to buy it). Now, having said that let me say this. CES has gone above and beyond and transcended the "pay as you go" policy for the work "produced". Once was a time (1987 - thereabouts) when the folks running the Org (CES) traveled around the country because the folks in the areas around the US wanted to hear them talk about twi, what was going on behind the scenes that were unknown to most of us who hadn't a clue as to what was going on, etc. Seems like that soon escalated into a "new teaching ministry" which was producing books/ tapes/ websites/ and STAFF to make sure the supply met the demand generated by those going out to "spread the Word". CES was slowly turning into another twi with all the twists/ turns/ and idiosyncrasies one saw from the parent ORG twi. Suddenly (in my IMO), it wasn't about the Word anymore, it was all about CES. Took me a few years to realize this, but I finally realized this, and I'm thankful it didn't take me longer than it did although I wish I'd have seen it sooner. As I mentioned to godmadegirl1983 in The GOT TRUTH "bumper sticker fiasco" thread, I've hung around and listened to the CES folks from the beginning up until around 2007 (or so), and I've got miles and miles of teaching tapes from them. One thing I noticed a coupla years ago was that the tapes were starting to sound (even) more and more like re-cycled twi teachings from the class. I should have seen it sooner, but when a tape from them (with John S. teaching) about how "church" can mean a buncha folks (rather than a denomination) caused me to sit up and say WHAT!!??? WHERE THE HELL-HAVE-I-HEARD-THIS-BEFORE???? Ces used to do some righteous teachings, that actually made you think. Their websites (Truth or Tradition and Biblical Unitarian) get a lot of hits from folks genuinely curious. But - - - (imo) anything "new" is a thing of the past. I'm reminded of the dog returning to it's own vomit, a pig wallowing in the mire, that sort of thing. I've seen the "money thing" become a bigger and bigger issue with the folks there (running CES). The only correspondences I ever got from them (when I used to "partner with them", were requests for money for this, money for that, yada, yada, yada. I suppose folks like Tzaia and others who were more directly involved could add more. But - - - don't anyone here expect a response from anyone there at "headquarters". I'm thinking that the song by Simon and Garfunkel (Silence is Golden) is their theme song.

Hey there Roy. :) As you might know, I work at a group home that has 4 developementally disabled guys, and one of them (who is schizophrenic) doesn't function very well without taking his meds. He (along with the other 3 guys there at the house), get "reviewed" occasionally by the state, the feds, etc. to determine if they "really" need them. Well - - - Yea, duh! It's pretty obvious that they do, but for whatever reason, the government authorities that deal with this stuff have the hoops to jump through, the red tape to deal with - - - so don't let it bother you if you get questioned once in a while. Speaking of Clark (the schizophrenic gent who lives at the house there), we had to fight like hell to get him re-instated with a prescription of Clozaril which he absolutely needed, but the "reviewing board" wasn't sure if it was necessary. I remember one time when Clark didn't have the proper dose of meds and he heard some voices in his head that ....ed him off, and he couldn't deal with it. He got mad at the world in general, and in his frustration he picked up a an oak wooden desk (one handed) and threw it at the wall about 10 feet away, and smashed it totally with the force of that throw. The pic following is MUCH smaller than the one he one-handedly picked up and launched through the air. Please don't blame yourself for anything, and DO take those meds, eh?? Perhaps there will be a time when you no longer need them, but if you need them now don't neglect them. Also - - - If you get questioned about things, or are referred to a "new" doctor, just chalk it up to the Gov't. guys doing what they are required to do. I'm guessing they would rather just let you alone living as you have, but they (like the Gov't. folks I have to deal with for the 4 guys who live at the group home), have a job to do and if you're nice to them they'll be nice back to you. By the way - - - Have you heard the group Third Day? I was flipping through some YouTube videos tonight and saw this one. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>Like the song says - - - You need to travel through the Valleys to get to the Mountain of God. :)

Too true RF.

That would explain: Close Encounters Of The Redneck Kind Sorry. Back to topic.

That was B (as in B), and S (as in S) both when it was "first taught" as it is now. I hear your sarcasm, but the irony of that lie is as great as "The Law Lie Of Believing".

Rick Panyard was the southern Indiana "area leader" back in the mid 1970's. Kris Skedgell was there too as our branch leader. Panyard was around a lot since Bloomington was a "happening" town with a bunch of WOW's and a big college "market". Back in 1976 ( I'm thinking), there was an advanced grad "get together", and Kris and Rick were 2 of 6 qualified to attend from the entire state. Rick used to do some hellacious teachings on "believing", and seemed to be the all around "good-guy" who was there to "bless the family". When I first found the internet, guess what I googled immediately?? Yup. You're right. The Way. First "hit" on google (back then) was a site called "No Way Out". Lead article on it was about a "Colorado "Minister Jailed". What's been posted here is pretty much the same article I read back 6 or 7 years ago. I guess his "believing" wasn't up to snuff? Or perhaps, he was following his "father in the word", eh?

I surely don't remember my first teaching I did (I wasn't asked to do so very often and that was long ago), but I remember my last one. :) I took a quote from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance as the topic for the teaching, used some bible verses that coincided with the quote and did a 10 or so minute teaching, and was done with it. I had both the twig's attention as well as the "leadership" there that night! I was never asked to "teach" again, which was fine by me!

Honestly - - - I have another "legitimate" question to ask in response to this reply: WHAT TOOK THEM SO LONG??????? Granted, I asked questions (and received) answers a coupla years ago from ALL those in "leadership" of CES/TWI[/ STFI. They didn't volunteer any info to me (a partner of theirs from damn near the beginning) until I asked point blank, via email no less. No mailing to the populace as to what was "going on', no "Here's What's Happening", none of that was sent to me or others. As far as I am concerned ( and YES --- this is an imo), they are interested MORE in damage control, rather than anything else. Info from CES/STF isn't volunteered. Shucks - - - I gave them a portion of my paycheck monthly, and it took GSC to tell me what was going on there. I'm guessing "transparency" isn't in their "Mission Statement", eh?

Hmmmmmmmmmm. If you're not a member of the MoChat site (which is a member-only-viewing/posting-site), then how-in-the-hell-can-you-say-that-she's-trashing-GSC-and-naming-Paw-by-name there?? You're a liar, or if you're running the rum (as your screen name suggests), you've been imbibing your cargo while posting. You need to apologize for what you said. Period! This is not a personal attack. It's an observation that you spoke TOO freely, and have NO validation for your accusations. If you can't apologize for it, SHUT-THE-HELL-UP-ABOUT-THAT-WHICH-YOU-KNOW-NOT-THEREOF!!! Sincerely yours; David

Perhaps, Rumrunner - - - you could provide some sort of proof of your statement I quoted from your post above?? You're making (imo) a fallacious statement that requires an apology to both Excie specifically, and GSC in general. The ex-JW board that you mentioned that Excie is a member of (as I am also), is a "Members Only" board so if what you say is true, you must be registered there too, eh? I've NEVER heard Excie mention ANYONE by their real name there, and neither have I done so. I've yet ( and I've been a member of MoChat since it's inception) to hear Paw's real name name mentioned there on that site. Yup - - - there's a bunch of us there that know it, but common courtesy rules there and those who do not give out their real name, are never mentioned by their real name. When referring to posters there at MoChat, it's a given that it's the screen name is used; and NOT a person's real name. So like I said - - - Put up, or Shut up. You, RumRunner (if you are a member of the MoChat site) will have access to it, unlike any others here who are not. Please provide a screen shot of the posts she made naming Paw by his real name. If you can't do that - - - then your allegations are just so much smoke out of your @$$. I'll chalk it up to Global Warming. If you can do so, I'll apologize. But as it stands - - - I think you made a personal attack on a poster here without validation.

The 11th hour, of the 11th day, of the 11th month, of 1918 was a day in history. "While most know that Veterans Day honors those who have served in the military, the meaning behind its exact date (November 11) may not be so familiar. Here's the backstory: Back in 1918, in the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, a stop to hostilities was declared, ending World War I. An armistice to cease the fighting on the Western Front was signed by the Allied powers and Germany. President Woodrow Wilson immediately proclaimed the day "Armistice Day," kicking off the annual commemoration on November 11. But over the years, with veterans returning from World War II and the Korean War, Armistice Day became Veterans Day — a day reserved to honor veterans returning from all wars. But 11/11 still represented the end of the Great War in the public's mind, and the date stuck. In 1921, unidentified dead from the war were buried in Arlington National Cemetery in Washington, D.C., Westminster Abbey in London, and the Arc de Triomphe in Paris. The tradition to honor those killed in the war but never identified continues every year in the U.S. The ceremony is held at 11 a.m. at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Arlington National Cemetery. Congress designated Veterans Day as a legal holiday in 1938." Thanks to all veterans who have given their utmost for this country, both living and deceased.

Here you go, WG. :) <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Good one waysider! I refrained from asking "How did docvic change a light bulb?", but given the great responses here - - - I'll ask anyway. Question: How did docvic change a light bulb? Answer: He didn't. He just held the light bulb up, and let the room revolve around him.

I got my first computer (unwanted by me and used) in 2003 (June). It took me until December of that year to discover the internet. When I was offered that computer, I remember saying (quote)"What the Heck am I gonna do with THIS thing!!"(end quote) How times change, eh???

Well, shucks. What can I say. Sure wish prez Barry O. was a member of this site. We could'a all been invited for a beer (or something). Clay, for what it's worth, newbies show up here more often than not (just like I did about 5 or so years ago), with no clue how the Search FUNCTION WORKS. Hell - - - I still don't know how to search for a particular subject "of interest" to me. So the new folks ask questions in the forums, just like I did. And guess what??? Questions get asked, and questions get answered - - - even if it's gonna be a "re-hash" of an old topic. I"m gonna be polite here, just like I try to be to be to anyone I talk to here as if I were speaking face-to-face. Seriously - - - I (occasionally) let my feelings about certain subjects get in the way of "productive posting" on this site, and others. There's been times I've had a beer or two too many, posted something and hit ENTER, and read it the next day (with regrets). I'm not accusing you of that, however (IMO) you need to back off a mite. Folks (well - - - a lot of us) have been here for a few years. Some longer than others. Not sure how you feel about it, but it is refreshing for me (at least) to see the folks who have time/ and time/ and time again (and I can now include myself in this group), come across the unending questions from those who have just escaped twi, and it's clutches. Perhaps you want to look at it as us (I include myself) in wallowing in the S.O.S, and I (for one) can see where you're coming from, but I'm here to tell you that that isn't the case. I (for one) won't be giving you the "one fingered salute", however I hope you realize that talking about things are healthy. Some folks need to go to a shrink about it, and others don't. I'm one of them there that don't. Even so, I'll not deny the "need to talk" to those who feel they have to to get to whatever point in their lives they want. Even though I feel that a waste of time (imo), it works for some folks. For some, this site is both therapeutic and healing. It's always cool to allow folks (any and all) an avenue of of release and escape, should they desire it. Hmmmmm. I don't suppose you're a banjo picker, eh?? If you REALLY want to see redundancy/ heated arguments/ and an endless rehash about "stuff" such as banjo tone rings/ bridges/ necks/ strings/ submerged wood/ factory floor rims/ etc./ google Banjo Hangout. Hey - - - You have a good day. I hope you take what I say seriously, since I wish you no animosity. You have a right to your opinion just the same as myself, or anyone else here. It's my imo that you need to re-think things. But you do what you want to, eh??

So - - - How many Wafers does it take to change a light bulb??

(Click the pic above for Guy Fawkes (bonfire night) in Great Britain) Then there's my misreading Guy Fawkes as "Grey Fox": <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>I'm glad the two events aren't held at the same time. If I had to choose between the two, I'd have to go for Grey Fox over Guy Fawkes.

Thanks for that Waysider. I remember the "God said it/ I believe it/ that settles it" saying from eons ago. I also remember the tirade ole docvic went into about the middle phrase (I believe it) as well. But - - - until you mentioned it here, I never connected the "lack of believing" he espoused in that rant, versus what he promoted in the class. Your memory's pretty good! Docvic did say exactly what you're reminiscing about, and made a big deal about it at the time too. ;) I've said it before (MANY TIMES ON THIS SITE), and I'll repeat myself once more (if the poster populace will indulge me): THE "LAW OF BELIEVING" IS THE MOST INSIDIOUS TEACHING OF TWI! That one teaching ruined more lives than anything else they taught (imo). The "Law of Believing" as taught by good ole docvic in pfal is a crock-of-$***. Always has been, and always will be. As much as I disagree with the folks in CES (these days), they did a mighty fine teaching about 15 years ago (in the mid 1990's), about how God honors His promises. The upshot of the teaching was "God can do what He said He will do." If I recollect correct the teaching basically said that God had the ability to do what He promised, and that had NOTHING to do with whether or not our "believing" was involved. Thanks again Waysider. You just helped me "connect a coupla more dots" in the twi "puzzle". :)

P.S. - - - When I first read Geo's post, I thought he said Grey Fox rather than Guy Fawkes. Grey Fox is a different festival and celebration, isn't it? Guess it's time to go to the ophthalmologist and get a new prescription for glasses, eh?

Hey there Mstar. Are you going to fire those symbolic rounds from a banjo, or a rifle?? ;) If you've got a banjo/ rifle like Sabata, you coud do both I guess, eh? I wouldn't be worrying yourself too much about teabaggers. Buncha folks wanting to have their opinions heard, yes. Violence and burning in effigy or reality?? Nawwwww. I don't think so. Leastways not up here in Minney-soda, and I tend to think the rest of the country is the same way. It's frustration with a dictatorship-type government that's supposed to be representative. I doubt (highly) that there any "teabagger plans" to haul a bunch explosives into Washington D.C., or anything like that. Hey - - - did you catch the skit SNL did a while back?? They're "getting it" too! <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYnMYZDsrJM&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYnMYZDsrJM&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYnMYZDsrJM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hey there Billy - - - not sure if I should fall asleep here or make some popcorn while waiting for you to address me and my questions about your insinuations you directed to me. Are you REALLY sure you aren't a part of CES?? Your lack of response to direct questions suggests otherwise. :) My take (these days) is that CES is TWI with a new set of initials. Oh sure - - - they started out with the "best" of intentions, but before too long they (CES) "morphed" into the very ORG they thought they had escaped. SSDD (I think that can be understood by anyone with a half a brain tied behind their back). And as far as pertains the "meet-up" I had with the young lady in question, you weren't there and I was. So - - - will you answer any of the questions I asked of you?? Or, do you care to answer any of my comments about what happened when it happened?? I'll wait on your response, but neither anxiously nor with baited breath. I have the feeling that I'll get the "party line" should you choose to respond.