dmiller

Planet earth is more than large enough for me. ;) (but that was interesting. Thanks!)

Shaz -- you put it Sooooooo much more succinctly than I could! Moryan -- listen to Shaz. ;)

While in twi, I believed in the *Law* of believing, but later realized --- that it was the absolute most insidious, evil, doctrine they ever promoted. Anything that happened to you was YOUR fault, and they couldn't be blamed. Mind control has been promoted by many successful salesmen, and marketed. Docvic copied them, and promoted it as a *Law*, with scriptures attached. The *Law* of believing is the flatulence leaving the south end of a north bound horse.

Yup --the link initially took me to some biology/medical page! :blink: :blink: Seeing there was nothing about *surgical precision* concerning guitars, I thought i'd better see if I could *remedy* the situation. :) (Ps -- Nice touch he has there!!!) (PPs -- I took the hit, and am at the top of the page this time.)

Moryan -- God bless ya, and the thinking cap you are wearing. :) Twi has *hijacked* MANY folks from real life, and true vocational asperations, and funneled them into the *ministry* instead. When I was in twi (1975-1987) the pressure wasn't as great as it is now. But it was there -- to serve the ministry first, and yourself second. It's more prominent these days. Twi lost a lotta people back in 1986, 1987 (me included), and their money coffers are not what they used to be. It is to their advantage to urge folks to stay within the confines of twi, and do as they (twi) mandate to insure survival. Take a deep breath, and do what you have to do. Wishing you the best. Mr. Hammeroni --so good to see you again!!

The first link didn't work. Meebe this one will ---- Jeff is amazing!!!

The Scripture according to Socks ---- (Cough!!!) My fiddle calls, and my guitar gently weeps. I need to *minister* on the home front here. (taking care of local needs, don't cha know!) ;)

Moryan -- find a new girlfriend. If she won't change, life will never be peaceful between the two of you. I know it's hard to trust words on a screen, but please listen. As long as she is in twi, that *group-think* will be the ruling denominator in your relationship. Nothing wrong with an affiliation to a religious group (imo). I was raised Catholic as well -- and I know the pressure they put on their parishioners. I was in twi, and I know the pressure they put on their followers as well. Both make demands, but twi is definately the worse of the two. Twi makes inroads into your personal life, and demands change -- according to THEIR standards. Catholicism makes many demands also -- but they aren't as intrusive, nor do they spy on you to see if you are following *doctrine*. If she won't leave twi, find someone else. Your (happy) life, and sanity depend on it.

Naw. Who knows who else that might include?? ;)

Trust Bob and Tom to come up with something like that!

Well --- for the record, I'll reiterate what I've said before about CES/STF. I'm a partner with them, as I send a small monthly donation to them. It's always been my choice to do so as I wish -- with no coercion from the *office*. I have never been to a CES fellowship, with the exception of the first *Fields of Grace* festival held in Bloomington, since it coincided with a visit I made to my folks there. Like Raf, I've seen the teaching quality going downhill on the tapes sent out. Like Raf, I've wondered about the move from what CES was, to a full blown church. I held my peace about it since I'm so far away, and have never been directly involved. The only news I get from them is via tapes, or the Sower magazine. And those two mediums of information don't detail all that is happening. The TRUTH OR TRADITION and BIBLICAL UNITARIAN sites are something I can support. But I won't support *dreamology*, or whatever it is called. Reading those two PDF documents make me sick to think that that's what's going on. Like I said -- this is the first I have heard of ANY of this, and it's mind boggling. So Captain Crunch, Billy D, Jeff (the supply guy), thanks for your input. I also (Bullinger) will be waiting for the election in January. What is going on now has to be stopped. David

<<<------------- Reads Garth's post and You lost me after the word *crutch*. (Will listen to your comments on the rest of the post from Billy D., should you be so inclined.) :)

Captain Crunch -- thanks for those documents. Things are starting to make sense to me in all this mess.

Mr. Hammeroni --so VERY good to see you again!! :)

Hey there Thomas ---- LET THE MUSIC BEGIN!! :)

I couldn't answer about staying in tune longer, but just because they are *pegged* at a different location (not on the saddle), the tuning process should be same, wouldn't you think? Even if the string has more *length*, it still needs to go to pitch.

I heard that on a sns tape once. If I recollect correct (and it WAS docvic speaking), the claim was made that he (docvic), Billy Graham, and Oral Roberts were going to team up. Billy Graham would be the evangelist; Oral Roberts would be the *healer*; and docvic would be the teacher -- or somethng like that. I do remember him lumping the three of them together, then saying it fell apart because he refused to *compromise*. Docvic and *no compromise* in the same sentence?? Oxymoron.

A twi Underground Railroad for escaping slaves headed for freedom!!!! I like it!!

Socks (and Jonny) -- This is the FIRST I've heard of this myself. Never knew it was being *promoted* or even talked about. :blink: What an eye-opener. And eye-opener's aren't conducive to dreaming, eh??

Jeff -- thanks for the info. And Captain Crunch --- thank you too. :)

Hey there Dan. In answer to your question -- Yes I would. Now that they have the new web-site with the *all about them* link, I would think that it should be updated to current news in a timely fashion. JAL (from what I understand with my limited perspective), was confronted by the ENTIRE BOD, when he did something they didn't feel was right several years ago. Nuff of that -- I only bring that up because It wasn't a one man decision then, like these latest allegations seem to be. And yes -- if CES is gonna be true to what they have seemed to be in the past -- I would expect nothing less. I have no use for another control-oriented org.

PS --- no I won't e-mail them. I'll get on the phone and call direct. Interestingly enough -- the latest issue of THE SOWER I received was all about Biblical Leadership -- the leading article written by Dan Gallagher. I still want to know when this all happened, if it did, and why. The ball is in your court Captain Crunch. Serve it up, and deliver. If you have facts, let's hear them --- I'll listen if it's something besides "It's commonly reported".

So when did this happen?? HERE'S THE LINK TO THE CES/STFI BOD. Jeff quit?? Hmmmmmmmm (if it's true). I didn't realize one person had the authority to fire others (if that's what happened). John S. lives at Camp Vision there in Bloomington. Wonder if he is next? So where did you hear all this? I'm all ears for FACTS.

trying the video one more time Well it works, and it doesn't. :( HERE'S THE BABICZ SITE that shows these guitars in greater detail.