jardinero

Our one and only assignment was in the Tempe-Mesa, Arizona area. We stayed there after POP cuz our oldest was in school and most of the believers had left en masse. We continued to "play twi" with D*ve St*ndage being the head of state and all the other leadership in tact except for a few smart guys like Simon. Then when Dave systematically got rid of all the other leaders so he could have the big piece of the pie (I just want to be "full time ministry" - - I've never wanted to do anything else) (yeah, like have a real job) --> we left the state and went back to Calif. Since my divorce, I've moved due to job offers, but now am staying put til the youngest son finishes high school. J.

George said: Really, George! But damned if I can remember where I left my keys last night ;)--> J.

Not that I ever noticed it much when I was in, but it's very interesting to me now that none of them say anything like "leading others to a knowledge of Jesus Christ" ...... Come on, everyone sing along now: "Open my eyes that I may see... Glimpses of truth Thou hast for me..." J.

Bob and Robin were in the Family Corps with me (and Tonto) (hi Tonto!). They are both definitely the real deal. Wonderful people. It was very clear early on for them when the arrived at RC, they DID NOT like the taste of the koolaid. J.

Watch out, Paw - - she may have on her boots! :)--> Happy Birthday Shell! J.

Hi David: Thanks for re-posting that. "True teaching is not facts about the Bible, but true teaching is always that which leads to a deeper understanding of God, which is the way in which we come to know Him." It's taken some of us longer than others to work through some of this stuff and come to that conclusion that they were false teachers and to see the connection between the wrong teaching and the wrong behavior. Nice to see you again :)--> J.

O.K. I saw it too, and although I thought it was a little long (matinee - - I must have needed a nap) - - I thought Leo was very good also. Raf, also thought the congressional hearing scene was great. Best part of the movie, IMO. J.

Maybe more people would sign on the line for "retraining" if they gave them aerobic points for jumping through those hoops! ha ha ha - - I'm killing myself again! J.

Tonto, yes he IS exhausting. Not to derail this thread by getting into a side conversation with Oldies, but I do want to point out the following from my own business experience - - and I just share these as EXAMPLES of the type of responsibility (i.e., Oldies, ACCOUNTABILITY) a board member or manager of a corporation has. 1) As a board member of a nonprofit organization, I have a fiduciary oversight responsibility as a board member. Should I fail to excercise proper oversight and there is some sort of financial fraud or other mismanagement of funds and a lawsuit follows, I can be named in the lawsuit even though I've not necessarily been involved in the actual fraud or other wrong doing - - including being just plain stupid :)-->. 2) As a manager in a corporation, when an employee comes to me and complains of discrimination, sexual or other types of harrassment and I don't report it to Human Resources for his/her permanent employee file and see to it some action is taken (that's my accountability in the matter) - - I can be named in a lawsuit and held liable for damages. Ditto with safety regulations (like OSHA) when I fail to enforce them with my employees and someone is injured or dies. Just wanted to bring that up..... J.

Simon said: You're very right there, Simon. I'm sure most of us can tell their own stories of the number of times the "organization" failed to take on any responsibility when "our believing" (or lack thereof), "our spirituality" (or lack thereof), or just plain maturity levels didn't measure up. God, of course, never lets us down. The organization wasn't to blame. It was "the fear in the heart of that mother!!!!" crap that caused it. Almighty God certainly can't protect us when we have all that BS going on in our minds!!!! Brother! --> J.

Thank, Raf. It's been so long ago now. Yeah, that musta gone over big with the locals. J.

Oh yeah, yeah! Now I remember. JCING! of course! I could vaguely remember the pic of him nailing something to the church doors, but couldn't remember the occasion. Oh yeah, he was very triumphant! Geesh! --> Thanks, Alfie :)--> J.

Wow, Socks. Cool pic!!!! Is that duct tape on your right knee holding those pants together???? J.

Last I heard, home base was Oakland, CA. He may be listed. J.

Mark said: Mark, when I read this, I got a flashback of the number of times the Martin Luther movie was shown - - who DID stand up to centuries of "Christian" thought when he nailed his 95 Theses to the doors of Wittenberg. What I remembered was - - and someone here will have to help me with this - - didn't vpw nail his version of the 95 Theses (or something representative of them) on one of the anniversary dates or something????? I'm remembering something along those lines which, of course, set him up like Luther - - a historic figure standing against the paganism in Churchianity. --> Any one remember? Alfie? Evan?? Hope??? Ferris?? J.

Thanks, Abi. Good info on what's not compatible. Wordwolf: I installed SP2 last night as Igotout suggested. Will I have to uninstall and re-install it once I download a firewall? Thanks for the other helpful info. I'll check out the link later :)-->. I do clean out the cookies, cache and history periodically (been doing it monthly), but will do it more often now. The problem started when my son had a party and one of the jr. high boys got on my computer and on a porn site(unbeknownst to me or my son, but we caught him on the site). My son knows to follow all the security measures we have in place about staying off the Internet from home except for school work sites and checking floppies for viruses, etc. Anyway, it's been a long haul getting it cleaned up and I thank you once again for all your kind assistance :)-->. J.

I'll tell you how I THINK some of them justify it. It's cuz they confuse GAIN with GODLINESS. There's so many of them who still have MOGdom stars in their eyes... ... or who haven't worked an honest day in their lives and want to figure out some scheme to "live off the abundant sharing" or "I just want to be full time ministry", as some put it --> (though I have to admit that there are a number of them who's coffers are low and have had to actually do some part time jobs). But, I'm leaning towards concluding, Excie, that for a number of them it is a WILLFUL ignoring, deception, or sin (haven't figured out what to call it yet) that many of them have not set the record straight in the guise of "not speaking evil". That, IMHO, is perpetuating the evil. J.

You know, OutandAbout - - I was like that too for a while, but I heard too much over a period of time, that I just KNEW something was rotten in Denmark - - but I never could put my finger on it. I too, dismissed the married Limb Leader coming on to me when I was a new grad who lived alone and he just happened to want to stop by to visit and made completely inappropriate conversation with me about my physical attributes. I dismissed how vpw made a pitstop in the coach to visit our little twig, but the single, interim 7th Corps gal who lived with us, rode with him the 4-hour trip up to the Bay Area for some big event we were doing that year. I dismissed the other stories we heard of vp with the early corps women - - how COULD people talk about the MOG that way!!!!!!!! geesh! I dismissed the "rumors" I heard about the married Limb guy, who's secretary lived with his family and the number of times visiting people either walked in on him, or saw him coming out of her bedroom or heard his children off-handedly mention he wasn't available to take a call because he was napping in "Mxxxxx's" room (why they would say that, I have no idea - - that's just how it was relayed). ....and there's a number of more stories like those Tonto mentioned above (we were the same year in residence) (God, I'm glad we were at LEAD for that pajama party!). I'm still shocked too, outandabout, that it went on, that it was so "casual", that none of the "leaders" addressed it and that I was so naive (I never can remember how to spell that). I think one of the reason all the splinter group Wierwille-worshippers can turn a blind eye to it is they think that since no leaders ever addressed it - - it surely couldn't have been happening (although I know some of them know differently). It's just a case of those of us who are "out of the Word" speaking evil of their hero(s). I'm so thankful that I stumbled upon Greasespot when I did so I could connect the dots and not so easily dismiss all the "coincidences" and see the mounting evidence that this was really an evil little organization that hurt hundreds, if not thousands of people over the years. That kind of group I want NOTHING to do with, nor any of it's "offshoots" when they refuse to have any Godly sorrow and set the record straight before God and the rest of us. J.

Well said, Dabobbada. And Sky - - according to vpw's own theology, the more powerful the individual, the "bigger" those damn deceiving spirits had to be to hook ya! J.

Oh God, Hammie, you didn't do the double espresso again this morning, did you??? J. ;)-->

Thanks Steve. I'll try that. I did run Spybot in Safe Mode over the weekend, however there's got to be something else going on, cuz as soon as I get on the Internet (even to somewhere safe like GSC), Spybot find some other items other than DSO Exploit. So for the time being, I'm running it before and after each computer session. Norton quarantined a Trojan virus on Saturday, so I'm going to try all the above good advice (and links) and will report back if I'm still having probs. Thanks for chiming in :)--> J.

Don't stop now, Hammie - - you're on a roll! :D--> J.

One more thing. About a firewall. Which do you suggest and how do I install it? Thank you again. You all are wonderful! J.

Thank you all for responding and I apologize I am slow in getting back to this - - just had a very busy weekend. Abigail: It was reading about your problems that got me to post for more info. I think there's some good info below. CM: Thanks very much for the links. I will read up on the Microsoft tools. The problems I was having (prior to installing Spybot) was caused by a virus (which Microsoft after months of phone calls finally helped get it removed). Then I had a hijacker problem which kept us from being able to use the Internet (which is why I was absent from GSC for a few months). I still have something I'm sure, because right after I use the Internet now (just for email and GSC - - nothing else), I run Search & Destroy and it'll find other stuff (don't have my list with me now). When I run it a second time, it just finds the DSO Exploit. Wordwolf: Thanks for the info. Very good info for me. How do you delete the old System Restores????? Galen: thanks for the link. Looks like a good one. I'll check it out tonight when I get home. John: I'm running on XP Professional and had not added the Service Pack 2 because a couple of IT guys at work were hesitant about it. But you're saying I should. I am using dial up right now (I switched from Broadband after months of non use with the problems, but am ordering DSL this week. I do use the latest version of Norton's, I have Spybot Search & Destroy which I run before and after we use the computer each time and I use Mozilla Firefox as my browser. Any other suggestions? THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR SUCH HELPFUL INFO. I could not bear to talk to another person at Microsoft (particularly the screeners in India and the Phillipines). J.

Wow! thanks for posting that, WW. J.