Ham

It's love. say the word, and you'll be free.. I dropped all of my defenses once here, and got creamed.. I would do it again, if I were invited..

who is this (perhaps) poverty stricken, *man* with a message? I've had the "message" once.. it all does not depend on *me*. thats what got my attention in *mr* iams post. "why don't they believe *me*.." the vicster never figured it out.. in a cosmic sense, I have no idea where that leaves him.. but it doesn't look good.. if he had to live the rest of eternity with his unwarranted and unbridled egotism.. wouldn't that qualify as hell? just a thought..

and to you, dear friend. I say, the same as to my dear friend here.. I am not laughing AT you. I am laughing, at the absurdity of it all..

it's horrible. somehow.. I don't think it is going to be me going into the river Thames, or whatever name it is..

I dunno. Maybe we are looking for *real* people here.. it's his thread. Tell me to go somewhere else.. no problem.. John, I know you are *real*. At least I hope so..

A complete copy of the 62 page syllabus. the customary use and usages of pneuma hagion.. dechomai, lambano. Not only limited to the english word translated "receive". Pletho, pleroo.. usages of the genitive case, from Bullinger. whole pages of pfal book materials. inserted in loose leaf pages, right next to scripture.. some of Bullinger's structures. Oh, the structures in Ephesians. Copied from forbidden way material, ill gotten notes from a poor sucker, intent on leadership in da ministry.. and what else. figures of speech. Polysendeton.. asydenditon.. etc. etc.. so.. what was in YOUR bible?

I had in my Oxford loose leaf bible..a complete transcription of the 62 page holy relic.. every usage of lambano and dechomai, not just those translated as "recieve" diligently marked.. whole pages of literal "translations" by da way.. most of the intermediate class syllabus.. every reference in Bullinger's "also".. figures of speech.. maybe this needs a new thread..

I gave all that junk to one of my kids to sell on Ebay. Never happened. It was "rescued" by an offshoot.. gawd forbid, that we have da greatness of da word, fall into "enemy" hands.. very, very interesting.. I don't know about now. But the ex regarded these materials, even after they horribly failed.. as some kind of TREASURE.. really, really, weird.. explains a lot, to me. So all I have to do, to get the seven to nine syllabi, pfal books, and the rest of the junk back.. is to.. go back to "twig". no thanks. keep your ill gotten "treasure".. in the mean time. Please scratch my name off of the inside covers..

"you know, my Critics say I got my degree at a diploma mill.. well. you know, *Dr* Lininger.." oh yeah.. even the syllabus. I don't have it any more but.. wasn't it claimed to be the work of *dr* vp wienerville?

how do you know.. were you there? and that perhaps is the focal point of the error. "why don't you believe.. *MEEE.." believe what.. colonic scrubbing, with psyllium seed and a colloidal suspension of bentonite was the *way* to true spirituality? colon cleansing.. wild conspiracy theories.. far out doctrines.. drambuie and female "companionship" unlimited.. you know he really wasn't a doctor, don't you? Do you remember "Dr Bronner's" magic soap? I actually emailed them, and asked about the "dr's" credentials. and they gave me an honest reply. "no, he REALLY wasn't a doctor.." why can't old wayfers be just as honest?

I dunno. Why is it so frightening, for some, to be not any different than anyone else.. no *special* privileges .. no *special* treatment.. there are no guarantees here.. safe harbor? You've got to be kidding..

yes, and how did that turn out.. I can say one thing how that's worked out.. we have one poster here.. convinced of some kind of illusion of safety.. how many years after the demise of herr victser.. can't describe it, or define it. But somehow, it is there..

I'm still waiting for a definition of the safe harbor, or haven, that you speak of.. I understand your frame of mind. You don't feel compelled to cast your swine before the pearls here. Tell me if I'm off base..

the vicster had no more "authority" than that which he robbed others of..

Standard? What standard? The officer, yes. The vicster stole his "position". he wasn't really a "doctor", or don't you know that? either way.. he was a dick. And a very small one, at that.

amazing.. what's the reason for all the mind-numbing detail, to schedule the devil out of your "presentation"? Too bad it didn't work with some followers recent "investments"..

for me? No. Informed decision? "This type of ministry"? while I was busy eating bologna sandwiches and "witnessing" and running classes, cabinet members were freely fornicating with my sisters in christ, some with and some against their will. "this type of ministry" Informed decision? I'd still like to know what your definition of a safe harbor, or safe haven is. Apparently it was NOT safe if one was young, attractive, and female..

they probably wouldn't know what to do, after you hired them, either.

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Dr.%20V.P.%20Wierwille%22&page=1 Probably a couple hundred more..

I think this post belongs here. Really, I'm giving you a chance to explain yourself. There is a lack of communication here. It's probably the non-communication that is inherent in way speak. safe harbor. or haven. *we* know what THAT means, don't *we*. Uhhh, no. Shovel-ready manogawd(?).. surely that rings some bells somewhere.. no. I've tried elsewhere framing a few answers with multiple choice options. Any of them close?

no, I am actually trying to understand you. Maybe that is an impossibility. I've given you several chances to explain yourself. What was the safe harbor, or safe haven you seem to have enjoyed under vic's tutelage? Thirty pages on another thread, and you finally admit it was NOT physical safety or security. For any run of the mill way follower. That's a good start. We've moved one block of "what it is not" aside. What exactly WAS it? Maybe we should address the same question to CFF.. I think the worst answer I'd get is "I don't know. I'll have to look it over a little more closely.."

What exactly was considered with the exclusion? Money? Spiritual support? Friends? Retribution? Thankfulness, for years of support? An apology? "nothing" is pretty vague..

it's the same here. I used to be johniam as well. I was obnoxious, carrying a bible.. Now, I'm just obnoxious. I understand him. The frustration, trying to reach da world with da word.. thinking practically any other belief originated with the devil.. or devil spirits.. thinking I had *practically* all of the answers. Or had all the tools to squeeze them out of the bible.. but on topic. I find the offshoots dogma very distasteful, a poor, sour, half-baked recipe. But to me, that does not make them "bad people".. until they turn abusive and controlling like.. CES. One "crisis" after the next.. no real care for the consequences to the ordinary followers.. and others running STUPID programs.. where a devotee can be sent packing in the middle of the night, at the sole discretion of "those charged with oversight(?).."

I still waiting for an explanation of this little statement as well. "Shovel ready" "man of god????" Except for a few times pa cornered him on the farm.. past that, he didn't do an honest days labor for the rest of his life..