Ham

I don't post. Even now. Its actually my evil twin, steals my computer. Muahahahahah.

But all in all, I think they learned a few things- the offshoots that is. They still do have something to sell- but not high pressure, anybody who's anybody's had da class, one size fits all product like PFAL and it's offspring. More like, "we have something that may help". Lots more honest. No or far less stupid, unreasonable claims- at least on the advertising end of the organizations. The ones I have had experiences with, this is the case. If you want their classes, fine. If not, that's OK too. No second class citizenry if you don't. That's kinda what I meant when I said that TWI wouldn't last three seconds after the bell rung. They wouldn't. Anybody who's anybody- at least that could- have left- and a lot of good folks ended up in at least one offshoot I know. TWI wouldn't last a minute..

Hey.. it'd be just perfect for one of those "celebrity deathmatch" things..

Crispy.. hmmmmmm. Just a couple of secs in Raf's "domain" oughta do it..

But, really- what are you trying to do? To SELL it. I've even seen some folks get a few results from some parts of it- myself included. I just wouldn't call it "miracle soap". You know, soap that'll do EVERYTHING. Perfect soap. Soap of the ages.. Soap that'll give you anything, or everything- guaranteed. The trouble with all this, I have never seen any of this kind of soap live up to its claims. "Darn people were just too dirty, its their fault". I did not make the claim. I'll accept the claim- now let's see it DO something. The best advertising is done with demonstration. Words are nice, but lets see what it can do.

That's OK- describes me pretty much exactly. It took me over twenty years to figure out that there was something wrong with the concept of owing my all and all to a stinking "ministry". Took me about five years to figure out that the guy who could just plain scream really loud was not necessarily as spiritual as he claimed. Call me slow, call me simple- probably a pretty honest assessment. Actually, in my "witnessing days" I found it TOO EASY to dismiss these kind of questions. Too easy to think "small minds want results". "We do not see then believe, we believe THEN see the power of God.. etc, etc". No results? You must not be "believing". Real convenient excuse- just never can be the product- we want to be able to sell that. Easier and more convenient for people with problems to dissappear in the night. There were times I "believed" and good stuff happened. There were times I "believed" and some real bad crap STILL happened. Results- isn't that what its all really about? What's it really doing for you? Ole Doc did say one thing: "If you say you can jump over the barn, and you can really DO IT you're not bragging". Unfortunately, I did not see him jump over very many "barns". Half of the doctrine issue is practical. How do you PRACTICE it? Legitimate question. I showed you my "results"- and PFAL contributed a small percentage. Some worked. A certain percentage of PFAL resulted in catastrophe. Show me yours. Show me what it did for you. That of course was the real deal that was supposed to get people in the class- even back then.. tell them what it did for you. I'm not bitter, I'm not "....ed off", I'm not even slightly ornery at the time. I'm not even in particular trying to pick a fight. All I'm saying, with all the mastering, all the study, all the etc., if it works, if it is worthwhile, you've gotta be seeing some results. What are they? When I was a first-class witnesser, I could dodge quite a few questions fairly well back then. I remember giving some pretty lame claims- "well, I finally have peace of mind", "I finally know who I am in Christ" or "well, I can understand some of the Bible that I previously did not". All so vague, so subjective.. some folks thought I was more peaceful if I'd just take a couple demerols or something. ` People would say, "If you can DO the miracles, why am I not hearing about it?" It's really an honest question. If you can, by "mastering" the materials, believe to do the function of a Prophet- where are the results? No healing ministry in your area? Why not "master" the healing section in your advanced class sylabus and have at it? March in the hospital, and clear it out? Mind you, I am not questioning God Almighty- I know He can heal- I know he can energize healings- but I am questioning PEOPLE. By the way, ever even SEEN a healing ministry? You wouldn't miss it if you were deaf and had both eyes closed. Kind of like God says, "lets just take off the gloves- forget the "rules", have at em' kid". Literally- "cleaning out the hospitals". Kind of like Acts- the healed when the SHADOW of Peter hit them. No "bragging" there, he pulled it off. Same with Paul in Acts 19. Doesn't happen very often. My point- can't "educate" yourself enough to do it. Can't renew the mind enough- can't work hard enough. Can't "master" it- either got it, or you don't. Either God's given it to you or HE hasn't. It's GRACE if it happens- and it's GOD'S choice. Absolutely not guaranteed. I don't have big enough of a brain to figure out why. No results? PFAL must be highly over-rated. Like a nice catalog- you can drool over the pictures- but alas, you lack the wherewithal. I remember when I was a kid- kind of "geeky" I'd admit- I DROOLED over the Edmund Scientific Co. catalog. That's OK I guess- but it didn't get me the stuff. If I got that high power laser, I'd a probably just shot my eye out with it anyway.. If you read back a little- you'll find what I found that worked, and what didn't. I'm probably nuts for posting some of the stuff. But its my life- learned a few things at least.

OK.. If Steve! is the good, Raf is the bad, all we need to figure out is who is "the Ugly".

And more importantly, now you can spell it properly!

Heh heh heh.

Yep.. it'd take a real estate "miracle" heh heh. Maybe some poor sucker could buy it and move it one brick at a time somewhere. On the other hand- maybe they could auction off one brick at a time on greasespotcafe.com. Maybe a little mean- just a little "ornery" this morning, heh heh.

Soooo Mike. Where are we with this? Where are the results? Enquiring minds want to know.. still.

Well, only one thing I could say: If you have TWI in one corner, offshoot in the other- TWI probably wouldn't last three seconds after the bell rung..

Steve! You've got a little work ahead for you "big guy", heh heh.

Now I know where to send my Christmas wish list to..

As viciously as Loy attacked the offshoots, you'd think that they must have had something right.

"Da prevailing" choir.. good grief, rather listen to Sgt. Peppers- "Twenty years ago today, Sgt. pepper taught the band to play.."

Probably have to stuff the back 3/4 of the place with "blow up" people.. I remember my name was in that book.. probably not any more.

Well.. what more can one say. But if they were, somebody would be saying, "my, we have a lot of sailors at twig tonight"- heh heh.

It is PRINTED in my syllabus, and it was TAUGHT. But the previous post- as strange as all this may sound, I would not trade the experiences in life for anything. First of all, there is NO WAY to change it- I have faced that. I have heard kids talk.. "well, I would want a STRONG husband, one who can do this, do that, one that can renew his mind, one that can.." Cripe. Find somebody that can love you.

Unrealistic claims, unrealistic expectations- a lot of it was good, but a lot of it- well, whew. In my opinion, anybody who swallows it hook line and sinker just hasn't lived life. "Promotes harmony in the home" - I guess its time to work this one over. Bull- frigging- dang. Sorry for the cussing.. Sure, some things work OK, but. Sure did not save my marriage. I don't blame God, or the Word as such. But I think we had some real unrealistic expectations. Maybe not everybody has had the same experience, but I know what happened to me. Why I am posting this, God only knows.. One day you will wake up and find that you're a tenth the man you thought you were- or your wife will- especially if you've bought into these unrealistic claims. Honestly. Some day you or your spouse may finally face the fact that you can't fix everything. You can't always jump over the tallest devils with a single bound, that you can't stop every natural disaster in history, that you can't deliver anything near this kind of expectation. They will wake up, and finally figure out that you are just plain miserable at times. They will find that at times, you can just be downright devilish. You may wake up one morning, and find out that she is not the "submissive" wife that you though she was.. and that she just won't take any more "dang". Myself, I thought that was the neatest thing. Crap I did not know I was even giving out. Sometimes, they find that you are about perceptive about what's going on as a brick- and its still not necessarily your fault- just the way you are. Some of us need our attention gotten almost with a two by four sometimes. They may find that you still can't communicate like they'd want you to in some categories. Cripe, I don't blame her for leaving- I know who she was married to! Neither do I condemn myself.. I am only human. It's real easy to sit on the sidelines and claim the "God-breathedness" and "accuracy" of PFAL.. Real easy to MAKE the claims. Real easy to DEMAND others to live up to them. Its WAY too easy. When I ask for some results, I have a few good reasons. I bought into the greatness of it at one time. Ignoring doctrinal objections for a minute- some of it worked OK- but sorry, in a lot of practical details of MY life, it failed, miserably. Want to blame me? Somehow, that I "failed" PFAL? Go ahead- I hope you don't have to walk in my shoes.

Yep.. I had some situations like that- sometimes giving no answer was far better than the one "leadership" gave us- but even when I did- can't condemn myself. I was just a little bit ignorant too- even with all of the study, all of the "mastering" of the sacred materials..all the classes. Looking back in the "good old days" I see times I wasn't much better than "a brute beast"- but thank God I've forgiven myself, thank God I've changed in a FEW categories. But for me, what it took to really purge the "cancer is devil" crap was for it to happen so close to home for me. Suddenly, I was confronted with a few facts and truths that othewise I'd probably never figured out. Really gave me a chance to "take out the garbage". My kid "possessed"? Not in a thousand years. Despite doing the best I knew to do, it STILL HAPPENED. We prayed. We read the bible. We read and attempted to apply what we learned the best we could- including PFAL. There was no fear, no fear that my family would get sick, no fear that I'd lose anybody in my family.. no fear. I was- and still am (at least somewhat- maybe more realistically now) "the Confident Believer". I still believe God heals.. seen if happen first hand, just not the way I would have thought it should have been done. Sure taught me some stuff.. but I wouldn't wish this lesson on ANYBODY. For those who still hold to the "accuracy" of PFAL.. Still think cancer is a devil spirit? Think you have the magic formula to fix everything? Go ahead, keep your friggin error- keep your illusion.. but it sure is not practical or realistic. I hope you don't learn this lesson the hard way- I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

"Rocky, give him the left, the left!"

"The words whey"- how to read between the lines and milk it for all its worth..

But the number one question of the day: Raf- got "the marlboro man" against the ropes still?

Has happened- I wake up with the thought, "my God, what are you doing to yourself???" heh heh.