Ham

Still no results. Nope. Nada. Zippo. Ah, but I finally see it ALLUDED to. "Spiritual understanding"- biblically a sound concept, but here, it is so subjective, so vague. "Well, you really would not understand". Try me. Really. What happened to the claim of abundance IN ALL CATEGORIES? "Well, he really didn't mean that. What, you greedy or somethin? After all, results are not guaranteed". Let me see if this helps: repeat after me: "working and reworking PFAL did __________ for me" "I learned __________" "I saw some concrete, tangible results. They were ___________" I was honest enough to fill in those blanks with my posts. Surely, it cannot be that hard. What's the worst that can happen? Maybe my dumb a** little "unspiritual" brain won't get it. Maybe I already have had said results, a thousand times over. Maybe not. Or are we like the "swine", and you refuse to cast your PFAL "pearls" before us? Maybe they are not the "pearls" you hold them to be of high esteem? Not trying to be mean, just a little honest here- just trying to figure this thing out. So far I see all talk. All words. That's fine, if you can do anything with them. "Well, I've got faith- and lots of it- (sorry, PFAL says "believing") Wonderful. Let's see the works.

Lets see.. Here we have a class, adding approximately 20 plus years of unparalelled zeal and conviction to understand and apply- in an honest manner- and STILL fails miserably- somehow still has to be the greatest thing since canned tuna. Good grief- I still have not heard you weigh in with your "results". I gave mine. Pretty "personal". Show me what it did/is doing for you. The lack thereof suggests to me "no results". Have you started cleaning out hospitals? It has happened- but let's see you do it the PFAL way. Let's see YOU jump over the moon. Oh, maybe I just wasn't jumping just proper. Don't think so. I jumped every stinking way you could interpret that thing, in most categories, and STILL it did not work. Please explain. You tried a "new" method of jumping? I've tried and seen them all. To suggest I did not "take it seriously"- well, I won't reply. I "gambled" practically my all, my fortune, my sacred honor on that thing. Others gambled far more than I did. My posts are not loaded with "confusion". To think I did not "get it right" is ludicrous. If its THAT hard to "get it right" its not the word. I did not coast on "partial knowledge"- I road the stinking thing as IT ran into the wall. Really.. show me the results. Go ahead- ride "the train"- let's see where it takes you. No documentation- I HAVE to assume- no results. Nada. Zip.

Maybe I didn't state it clearly enough.. They don't even have to do a REWRITE. Wouldn't even need to "solicit" any more "blessing" letters. Just shuffle everything around, change the names, and oila! "New" magazine. They could do it with a quarter of the "staff". Still would sell it. The innies wouldn't dare quesion it- "I thought we worked that for three months in a row". Sure, they pay a pittance now, but they could do the very same thing for a quarter of a pittance. Heck, it works for classes and the "new purvailing series" books.

I kind of see your point. I also sponsored several folks. I think the real point is where the upper ups associated some kind of commitment to GOD being the same as a lifetime commitment to the MINISTRY- come "hell or high water"- well, looks like both of those "came".. The idea that God is supposed to BE the ministry.. seems pretty off kilter to me. I kind of see Skyrider's point- this "lifetime of commitment to the ministry that taught you da verd" was a rather short leash, indeed- people are not dogs- shouldn't treat them like that. Come to think of it, most people treat their dogs better-

I kind of thought that this was like the last big election too. At the time, I was hoping that the LEAST competent guy got in. That'd put a balance to things.. *'s record showed incompentence and ineptness without bounds- perfect qualifications for the office..

Doesn't suprise me. It took them over sixty years to figure out that beastiality wasn't all it was cracked up to be..

Very very interrresting.. I find the odds of finding the mention of this fellow on this forum rather astronomical. This guy ran across my path. Lived two doors away from me. Seemed to be a "nice guy"- just couldn't stay away from dope. Couldn't function in society without something to "take off the edge". Couldn't hold a job. He was in prison over HALF of his life- all from piddly little crap- nothing violent- at least that I know of. I think they TAUGHT him how to "work" the system. All he knows how to do- only skill he's got. Now he's over forty.. sad. Probably going to die in prison. Even seems intelligent- just no motivation to have to do anything. I think if he did not go back to prison, he would have stepped up his efforts a notch and gone with violence. At least my opinion..

Well, I justed voted for *. Moved em up from six to eleven percent. Maybe that will partly fix the poor things ego.

But it could have been a whole lot worse. I could have gone on staff. Really.. If its anybody I have compassion for, its some goodhearted folks that have REALLY given their all and all- I can partly imagine what its like. Fifty-some years old, and put out with no or little savings, no retirement and no marketable job skills- besides what they did to Mrs. Wierwille- look what they do to other long time staffers. Where is the promise of abundance then? "Sorry, results not guaranteed. We've given you da verd". And of course it is "biblically" justified- "they were just not darn committed enough to da one true household" or some such nonsense. I knew somebody that was tossed out of the corps just because the limb guy thought she was "ugly"- and I kid you not. "Just looks worse and worse, must be a spurt in thar"..that was one reason given for the mark and avoid sentence. So out you go, to figure out your own health care and retirement- if you ever will, or ever even CAN retire. I have about a ten year head start from what some of these folks have been given. So much for taking care of the elders in the church. I don't see how some people can survive this- mentally, physically, or spiritually. Some don't. Maybe they oughta just go back and "master" PFAL. Forget that the stinking thing is tattooed in there almost permanently. Couldn't "leave it" if you wanted to. I am still spitting up the same stuff. Unless somebody has some real concrete evidence otherwise, I still think that in a practical sense, it failed miserably- at least to the extent of the claims.

Yeah, double post. I killed it..

Cripe- at least I got a LITTLE out of PFAL. You'd have to really work this one over to find much..

Makes me wonder why they even BOTHER publishing the thing. Same bland stuff, same old worn out trough for "God's people" (God have mercy on em" to weed through to try to get SOME nourishment. They could save a lot of costs- just "recycle" old way rags. Same stuff anyway- nobody would know the difference.

Sorry, normally not this grumpy.

One more thing.. these "failures" I listed are just the tip of the iceberg. There are pages of crap I just don't have the stomach to go over again. Show me the results.

Oh yes- the bible- it was an oxford loose leaf type- cost me about $120.00 bucks, and that was in the very early seventies. If I can find somebody to scan it I'll post a picture of a sample page. I think that falls under fair use as far as PFAL is concerned..

Yep.. I still have to admit I got some good out of it. Still won't call it miracle soap.. Funny, after over twenty five years I feel like I'm finally heading in the direction God really wanted me to go to begin with. Just pray I live long enough to do it- I've already outlasted the life span of most of my ancestors. So.. what did PFAL do for me? bestides the good stuff, and I will be among the first to admit that there is good in there- but I reserve the right to take out the "garbage"- No, I was not corps. But probably about as close as you could get. I wasted years of time and effort I could have spent really bettering myself. Untold hours of working the details of PFAL in the books and anything else I could get my hands on. Listening to the SNS tapes over and over. Ignoring what God had in mind for me all along. I spent too many years in a second rate job, so as to be able to have the "freedom" to help- help run classes, help with local fellowships, give, give, give. Don't get me wrong- it was not all bad. But the constant working of the materials, over, and over, and over again- never made me more spiritual. If my life depended on it, I could not just rise up and "turn on" the function of a prophet, or the function of a healing ministry if it was needed, or the function of anthing I was not. All the mastering, all the "believing" did not help me get it. Years perhaps not entirely- but mostly- wasted- spent trying to be something I was not, something I would never be. What "suprises" me is I even believe in a God after all of the stupidity. A lot of people were less "fortunate". So where am I now? Unless I win the lottery, I probably will never be able to retire. Where's the big promises of abundance? I should be filthy rich. I find myself desperately trying to dig myself out of the hole I've put myself into. Yes, I did it- but at the encouragement of others. Obviously, "mastering PFAL" is not going to be the way out. I have $800.00 in the bank. That is more than I had last year. Thank God I don't "owe" $120 of it to some stinking cult. Maybe you can see how this "if you just return to PFAL and master the principles" kind of sent me off the deep end. The Dr. Seuss stuff was kind, compared to what I really thought of doing. I have joked with friends about putting an add in the Sunday paper, "forty-some year old college student, seeks adoption. Well mannered, housebroken.." It's a miracle that I don't go into fits of depression. It's a miracle I have the will left to try to dig myself out. All that said, still don't feel sorry for myself- most of the time, anyway.. and there is light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not writing to solicit pity. Just an honest assessment of what all this ministry stuff did for me. In a lot of practical ways, PFAL did not live up to its claims- led to disaster. Mike, when I ask for results, I have a few good reasons.

Too polite. Tell us what you really feel, heh heh.

I dunno- I read the Mike posts for a long time before considering saying anything. It seems that debating the doctrinal "irregularities" go nowhere. Have all the info on your side, all the logic- does no good. I thought I'd try something different- examine the practical side. If it's so great- show me what it's DOING. Show me the results- none to date. I showed mine- some not so pleasant. Explain that away- I was a "master" of PFAL. Crap still happened, deliverance came, but not the PFAL way. Some things, I could NOT fix. I hope it helped somebody.

OK you two rascals that voted for the valium, well, you know who you are anyway, heh heh.

Anybody want to call old Joe a girl, well, we've got some issues, heh heh.

I chose the name "Mr. Hammeroni" as kind of a play on words- "Italian ham radio operator"- but I'm not Italian.

Yep. I am a ham radio operator. Use morse code all the time. That's one reason I chose the last avatar- looked to me like young Joe Walsh when he was in James Gang..he is also a ham radio operator- WB6ACU. I always messed around with radios and electronics, but got involved with the local radio club here shortly before exit from TWI. Nice bunch of folks.

"Gotta work PFAL"- God may have told YOU, sure did not tell ME. Maybe YOU didn't "get it". I did- way too much.

The only thing that "suprises" me is how long it took to say "enough is enough". Honestly. How long I hung around that stink-hole. How long I justified lack of results. How many times I kept going back to the same miserable trough trying to get some real nourishment. How long I either ignored or stood behind doctrinal and practical error. How long I accepted the blame for lack of results. No more. Some gleaned some good out of this thing- no fight with them. I managed to get some good, but I'm still coughing up junk. Ptooie.

Still.. what results? Perhaps you were not a zealous as I was. In our classes- we read the materials. We worked the books- while we were going through the class. More times than not. Honestly- I could tell you the difference between how Doc handled "needs and wants parallel" in the book AND the film class. I remember even the stinking jokes- even the ones he chose not to put in the PFAL book. We worked over even the most mundane, insignificant crap- people counted how many times he said "Christ in you" in session five- trying to attach some mysterious significance to each "occurence". We debated endlessly why he was justified in omitting "ye think" in John 5:39. In the film class, he really stumbled over that.. almost choked. But there it is, all in it's glory in the written materials. This kind of handling of God's Word is STILL a stumbling block, but not to me anymore. I went as far as to write the entire PFAL book, RHST and more in minature form in my bible. I still have it. The sixty-two page sylabus also forms an appendix in the back of my bible- word for word, charts and all- hand copied, exactly to the letter. I went as far as to take the sylabus, and bracket the verses listed that Dr. only quoted, not directly read. I worked that sucker up and down, inside and out, day and night sometimes- year after year- and a lot of times it STILL did not work. Still. Still at many times, bad stuff happened anyway- believing or not. Sometimes good stuff happened out of the blue- no believing involved. Sometimes good things happened because of God, and because I "believed" and because of what I learned. And life is the same today. I refuse to even open the thing anymore. No more. Got insufficient tools? More honestly- some of the "tools" were not "tools"- they did not work. I remember the tools- some of them I wish I could FORGET. "Fear is believing, it is believing in reverse..." Some of it was good.. other parts were skewed beyond any recognition or pattern of logic. There were times I got some real CRAP and I DID NOT have fear. So.. WHAT results? Honestly- honest question. I showed you mine. Some were OK, some stunk. And a lot of the stuff is pretty personal. Show me yours. What (and I mean in a concrete manner) did it do for you? What is the present "mastering" and labor doing?