Ham

Yep.. on a practical level, I really have nothing bad to say about them. They seem to be reluctant, in my opinion, to fight or debate about anything religious- they seem to dislike the efforts of anybody that would want to dictate their beliefs, or lack therof..

Sounds like just my kind of group, heh heh. Have to be serious about something, I suppose.

Oh yes, money. There was a SMALL note in the program saying, "yes, we do need some to do the stuff we do, but refrain from passing the basket during the service, if you wish to give, stuff a little in the box in the back"- that was a little different.

Right before I got out of der vey, the last communion service I was at they had some kind of "personal prophecy" over certain people. I thought it was kind of creepy.. maybe some of Loy's "new light".

Heh heh heh heh heh.. well, it would be one service that you couldn't call "boring".. the congregation would probably never forget, or forgive you for that matter, heh heh.

Exie, not me, in a million years..

Yep- Galen, I have heard messages in prophecy that really seemed to hit the mark, others, about sharp as butter or lard. I never felt completely comfortable, in the manner we were instructed to operate it in the ministry- or even in offshoots today- but I think it may have been the best according to the word that anybody knew, or knows. I know doc got a lot of the information from some guy in florida- I would be interested in seeing the source of his material someday. But I don't think that the way we did it was necessarily sin. Corinthians does put it practically on the top of the list of one of the things to aspire to do, correctly. Love of course being the greatest. Just seems of all the manifestations, or "gifts" if you will, prophecy has the majority of danger signs hung on it. If you don't have the real thing, I don't think it means the guy is necessarily "puzzessed" or anything, but speaking presumptuously for the Almighty can't have too positive of an outcome.

Interesting though.. now I finally remember- the same denomination here, it may have been even the same church, about ten years ago maybe- they had a highly advertised seminar about "Shaminism in North America" and the fundamentalist groups got SO upset. They acted SO suprised, outraged, and even flabbergasted- that their "brethren" were even capable of doing this. From what I had read previously about the group, I could hardly see how anybody could be "suprised" heh heh. The sign in front of the church says it is a LIBERAL church- yes, in large capital letters. Not to say it in a mean way, but liberal is, liberal does- I honestly don't see how the local ministers would be so "caught off guard" or something.. This group seems to be pagan friendly likewise. I don't have any real plans of joining or anything, but- if they let me run nekkid in the spring solstice or something, I might consider, heh heh.

They seemed to be pretty smart though..

Yep.. I kind of got the impression that they left the concept of worship up to the individual. In a strange way I was impressed that they didn't offer the moon in a twelve part series the moment I walked in the door. One old guy there said, "so this is the first time you've been to a univeral universalist church.... most people don't like it" !!! Funny, but brutally honest..

Galen, good stuff- but in a way, that gives me a few more questions than I had before. Maybe that's a good thing.. but, what is the context of this grouping of "prophets"? Is this just a little "twig" meeting somewhere out in the middle of nowhere at some disciples house? Or is it a much larger gathering? Obviously there are more than five prophets present- three speak, "others" judge. Not impossible I suppose, but to me it would be out of the ordinary to have five prophets running amok in a little local fellowship somewhere.. Plus- I've been thinking about some of the instructions we got about prophecy. Here its not "if any man should speak" like with tongues and interpretation- here they are specifically named, "prophets". I remember ole doc's instructions, that this is "the best guidance" we have for operation of "the regular" manifestation of prophecy- I kind of question this now though. Just some thoughts- any answers?

And to say the least, it was "educational". The first thing I will say is, they seemed to be very nice, loving people. In no way am I making fun of them or anything. They seemed dedicated to- well, I just couldn't quite figure that out. I was on my way to "twig" this morning, and lo and behold, it apparently was hijacked and relocated to a completely different city. I was always curious what the unitarians do with their spare time on Sunday AM, so I thought I would check it out. The experience agreed with all reports I have heard plus some... My first impresstion, they are not sure of what they REALLY believe. They believe that God is, or God isn't. Or they believe God is actually nature. Or the earth, the sky, etc.. No miracles, truth not necessarily found in the bible, and that it was a myth no better or worse than the stories about Hercules. My next impression was that they would almost die for you to believe and voice whatever you wish- provided you are a nice guy about it. There seemed to be no middle of the road here- It seems that to them, anything goes, any belief OK- that the only standard for faith and practice is their own conscience, ONLY. They claim to hold the value of an individual over or besides the fact that they believe, or don't, or what. The person doing the sermon almost boasted that they had perfected the process of blasphemy into a real artform.. But they are actively involved in the community, do good stuff, doing unto others like they would have others do unto them. I think they were trying to practice the gospel without any kind of doctrine- I think I left more confused than when I came, heh heh.

You "somewhat cultured" rednecks just aren't giving yourselves enough credit..

That's funny Paw.. too bad I missed it.

If some way I could pull it off.. someday, I'd "rent" a cow somewhere and "station" it in my kid's back yard. Go over early AM april the first, "there's a cow in your back yard" "Nawwwww, we know better than that..." heh heh.

"Personal Prophecy: How to be a prophet without really being a prophet in twelve easy steps". Sounds a lot like another scam I have already seen.

I think the former limb guy in our state thought George Washington played the class in it's original form for his men, with an old reel to reel tape player, as they crossed the Delaware.. Must've been why we won that war, heh heh..

Jim, I'm sure glad you're still here, too.. Your statement about the "Jesus movement" being a bunch of cults makes sense. I think we had a work of God, people really wanting answers, turning to the Lord- and then the vultures swarmed, wolves in sheeps clothing. I remember some of the way living in love stuff with doc's "interview"- how he was unimpressed with the apparent lack of discipline, or whatever.. I think the movement had an element that he could not somehow quantify.

Good grief.. and we think we are so modern. Maybe a little more educated, but just about as gullible.

Yep. "Die spiritually" kind of meant "because you intend to do otherwise with your life, and even though we don't have the remotest clue of what God wants you to do, but INSIST you jump at our every command- God wouldn't even BOTHER TRYING to spit in your direction". "Sure you're saved and stuff, but if you don't tow the line you'll wish you never went to heaven.." That was actually spoken. I finally got to the point that I figured if the Lord came back, and it was gonna be like that, I just plain wasn't going to go. No thanks. Send me to a worse place, like where there is lots of beer, schnaps, and naughty women folk, heh heh. If there is a hell, I think a lot of us already passed through it. Now it seems just like such a remote, bad, bad dream.

Community college is really a good way to go. The one here has signed academic transfer agreements with all of the big dogs in the state, except for one. Every "major" class I am/have been in has been taught by an actual professor- and most have Doctorates in their field plus some have big degees in education beside. The quality of education is outstanding, and transferrable. It's definitely a good way to go on a budget. Current costs are about $77.00 per credit hour vs. way over $200 I think- last I checked- for the big dogs.. Probably gonna really need some help when I hit the big university..

I guess whatever it took to give it the "country club" persona was a go..

Rascal, I think the real vast majority of the bad stuff came to my attention after I got out. I had no clue about the sins of Loy, Vic and crowd- or of the real horrors some ladies faced.. I think those who really knew and refused to speak really bear the blame. Sadly, that won't "fix" it either. My eyes must have been glazed over with all the stuff I saw, and did nothing.. but usually said actions were justified by some arcane teaching, "we have liberty in christ" or some such nonsense. And I trusted the friggin idiots- with my life. Suprised I still have it..

Naw, not too bad. At least it would be colorful.

Well.. good statement- don't know how well it applies. If you call twenty plus slavish years servitude to a stinking cult, like some do, sowing seed.. I have a problem. It didn't work once, and I'm not about to try it again. I LIKE the results that I am getting, at least now. I also acknowledge where I lacked results. No longer do I try to "boss" God around, trying to tell Him all the specifics of what He HAS to do. No longer am I bound to an insane thought that if somehow, by a freak of nature, and against all odds, I get every stinking detail right that magically, I can manipulate God Almighty into changing the hell about me into some kind of spiritual "nirvana"- and then have "heaven on earth" practically in spite of the Almighty. My Bible says that I have already "arrived", and that before I lifted a finger to do anything other than make Jesus lord and believe God raised him from the dead. I think TWI in a lot of ways was trying to sell to me what I ALREADY HAD. Peace with God. Righteousness. All of the good things in Christ, and more. They had no business trying to peddle what is obviously free- especially the exhorbitant fee they required. But for the topic of the thread- I think the quotations of the Bible of itself are very interesting. If you are looking for pure accuracy- and we were taught that only the word spoken VERBATIM would back down the adversary- you won't find it in how the word quotes itself. Not verbatim- and that troubled me as a young wafer.. I still think reading what is written is a valid concept. Has to be if anybody's gonna understand anything- but sometimes, the "distinctions" we think are there are not really there. Sometimes they are. Interesting- from what I remember, most of the quotations in the word agreed more closely with the Septuagint, and that's a translation, not the "original". This fact does not bother me anymore. I think even ole doc got tired of some of the nonsense- said something like "food is for eating, not analyzing".