Ham

"Whoever wishes to blame or attack me is entitled to do so. I regret I didn't have enough experience to totally control the movement. On the other hand, with our constant struggle, this had to be done together with others in the communist world to stop Kampuchea becoming Vietnamese. "For the love of the nation and the people it was the right thing to do but in the course of our actions we made mistakes." Yep. Several million "mistakes". Those are the words of Pol Pot. And in the end, it was not much more than "I regret I couldn't fully control the movement"- or rather, "the PEOPLE made me do it". Denial, to the end.. even from the leader of the cult..

I have read some of the junk people have written. To me, the attitude of "well, boys will be boys" is reprehensible.

Def, quite true, and they did it in broad daylight. I wasn't thinking of going back as far as Cambodia- but the enormity of that was about the same as that of the Jewish holocaust. One point something million human beings, tortured and murdered. Maybe we have not learned the lesson, yet.

It would be fitting if Martinpuke had to spend the rest of his days as a janitor in one of those dreaded holocaust museums..

But what gives this denial phenomena such a "cult" appeal? I think that it is a matter of trust. Anybody that has enough of an "open" mind in this regard, to even CONSIDER that people can be so devilish, are a threat. A threat- no "implicit obedience". Another threat- questioning orders, or the logic or sense of ANY dictate from immediate or higher superiors. Its your job, just to JUMP. I honestly think the bastards are loaded with the same stinking spirits. Same tactics. "Well, Loy wasn't THAT bad. He did give us da verd.." Same frigging denial.

Politics aside. So Arabs claim land was stolen- and I don't EXACTLY agree with the notion that we owe "them" a living or anything quite like that- I don't think that is really what its all about. Hitler named his enemy. If he wasn't stupid enough to write it down in Mein Kamf perhaps we would not be talking about this. The "enemy" was, in HIS opinion, LESS THAN HUMAN. Most of his men completely agreed with him. Just a little side note, Martin Luther practically believed the same thing. At this point, I don't quite know what to think about that. According to Hitler, The Jews were genetically inferior. The Jews were not ONLY genetically inferior, their genetic nature made their character UNREDEEMABLE. The Jews could not be trusted. The Jews were the CAUSE of Germany's trouble. Under Hitler's regime, the Jews were driven from public office, they were driven from their homes into ghettos, they were SYSTEMATICALLY targeted for destruction- the "final solution" to the "Jewish problem". This is documented. Not to mention the horrific medical "experiments" performed on them. I guess Hitler thought they were good for something. Ptooie. Don't tell me the "solution" was gonna be a slap on the wrist, and a hearty "well, behave yourselves, boys". History records something far worse. On the surface, I see how such an account can be hard to believe. Hard to believe, indeed. I STILL find it hard to think that people can be THAT evil. But I can think it. "Modern" times are no better, except perhaps we take action a little bit faster. We've had, what- at least two similar attempts in the last twenty years to eliminate an ethnic or unique group of people. Apparently, evil does not like to change- it likes it here. "They" would just LOVE for us to "just get over it".

Hey, no problemo. Probably good to remember some stuff anyway. At least it doesn't hurt, at least like it did. A lot of the self-righteous @$$holes probably have a few suprises waiting for them in life though.

Catcup, I think Wa**a*e and Mr. he who speaks fondly about his vegetables are first cousins..

Just a little point- ALL water contains large clusters of molecules. Its called hydrogen bonding. If you add something that mixes with water, such as ethanol (burbon or scotch), the mixture STILL consists of large molecules, as the water bonds to the alcohol nearly as readily as it does to other water molecules. The forces between the molecules from hydrogen bonding is what keeps the molecules in close proximity (liquid form) at room temperature. If dissolving oxygen in the water breaks it up into smaller units, there would logically be less bonding between the water molecules, as a whole. The whole point- if adding oxygen does what they claim, the water would no longer act like water.

Sincerely, thanks for your contribution Catcup. You may say that this one hit pretty close to home for me.

And you, "Rev." can eat three meals without mixing bread and vegetables, drink water for "miraculous" energy, you simpering idiot, don't even think of claiming MY failure as some kind of victory, or vindication for YOU. Just wait you SOB. Just wait and see what happens to you when YOUR wife decides to quit taking your .....

Looking back, I can say that since we were hitched together with vey doctrine and practice, that there WERE times that "they" were really able to work us over. What a blind idiot I was..

Here is a link to some science I would call the "real deal". Enjoy if you know chemistry or physics.. it really blows the jackasses "science" out of the water. http://www.remember.org/History.root.rev.html http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-...enial/blue.html I think about the only reply from the deniers to most of this is "wah, wah, wah, you're not playing fair.."

But I think I have the anwer to that. It inspires HATE. No longer are "they" watching YOU, "they" are watching "them". You might say it has "cult appeal".

Yep. Why bother.. Just another juicy tidbit for us to "circle the wagons" around. In a way, as far as the group is concerned, the bizarre belief is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that you band together and defend it to the death, supporting those who were gracious enough to give you a few crumbs of "truth".. Makes me wonder why ole vic would choose such rubbish for us to tie our wagons to. Lots of better causes, like "the earth is flat" or "they never really went to the moon"- some have found these pretty effective.

So much for "conventional" Way marriages..

Funny though- I found out what SHE was really like. A real "redneck" at times, but I thought it was kind of "cool". Anything better than the roles determined by Vey personnel was an improvement. I turned out being a forty-some year old hippie. Sorry, just can't fight it any more, heh heh.

Groucho, this describes me pretty much exactly. Everything we did was ministry related. When we were finally out, she found out what I really was like. It scared the he** out of her, and I can't hardly blame her either. My marriage only lasted about four years outside of TWI. I think she thought that she had married a monster. Who knows, maybe she was right. No common interest (the ministry) and it was dead. Twenty five years, and it was over.

Yep. I heard all of those arguments, and more. "Well, they REALLY weren't Jews to begin with" Of course that was genetically disproven. "Well, lots of other people died in the camps. Jehovah's witnesses, Homosexuals, etc., etc." That's nice. But so what? How in God's name does that justify murdering ANYBODY, no less targeting a specific group for utter destruction? I don't get it. Even in my Vey days, I had doubts about what Loy and Vic said about the holocaust. I think I said "uh huh" and just "held it in abeyance". Should have run like hell. I think people can't fathom the enormity of it. Maybe that's one reason the deniers attack the credible, first hand witnesses of the horror. It's hard to ignore somebody's personal story.

Pure Evil.. and I think the closest second to that is to deny it ever happened. Or to say that it wasn't as bad as all that. Or.. on and on. It may be a "bitter pill to swallow"- but I think people are far better off knowing what happened. I remember "good" ole loy trying to "protect the hearts of OUR young people" in these regards. Sure doing them a favor, I'm sure. If it hasn't already, some day the truth will hit them in the face. That's not protection- that's just setting them up for ridicule, embarrasment and shame. Nothing wrong with getting sick about something, if it is appropriate.

Probably no way he could reconcile THAT with his theology..

Belle, I hope you got them back again. I "dumped" about two hundred vinyl albums, half of which would probably be worth a fortune today. The CD's versions are really nice though, they don't skip. Amazing what we did with "secular" stuff. Had more going for it than the little second rate "religion" we were in..

Happy Birthday to you, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Oakspear, happy birthday to you. Hey, what's good for Exie has gotta be good for Oak.. Happy Birthday.

My other related thought on this is: why do some people find it so EASY to believe this? The evidence that there was indeed a holocaust is staggering. You have SO much to explain away. The pictures, the tattoed numbers on the few survivors, the medical "experiments", the camps themselves. The tons of HAIR. Had to come from somewhere.. The warehouse fulls of shoes. Somebody had to once wear them. Sure, loads of other people died in the camps and in the war itself, but they were not as a class singled out for destruction. Of course, that does not make their deaths any less significant. How is it that it is so easy to disregard all this and more, on the word of a jackass that can't account why there is no cyanide in almost seventy year old, weather beaten bricks? I did research on this for one of my college papers. Even the victims often discounted the reports, until it happened to them. I think it is a far more comfortable belief, than its grizzly alternative.

Happy Birthday to you, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Exie, happy birthday to you. Best I can do,you'll have to provide the melody.