Ham

Some do, yes- on a regular basis. But not my club- we did one about five years ago. Nice weather and all, maybe I'll bring up the suggestion at the next meeting..

Another thought about this- if THEY don't take care of it, the kids will either inherit it, or flee. Cripe, for their own offspring they have a debt to take care of this.

True Coolwaters.. couldn't express it, could we? I think maybe some confuse anger with sin, or seething rage. Of course the latter may be appropriate at times.. "just renew the mind", ptooie. I kind of put that in the same category as "just get over it". Now there was a LITTLE anger. Not too shabby, heh heh. I kind of like this forum, because the anger is controllable. Not in a bad way, but you have to think about things a little more before you type.

Yep. And I have had my share of that. And it still comes up. And its too hot to hold on to for any length of time, have to do something.. Any more, I think I get more angry at myself when I remember some of the stupid stuff I used to believe and do.

Well, its hard to convey tone sometime. Concerned would be more accurate. Or funny sometimes. But not wrathful or full of seething rage.. It concerns me. The old leadership owe it to themselves as much as they owe it to us to at least try to straighten out the mess. And this stuff will hang on and linger, for YEARS. Sneaking out in the cover of night, and trying to open up your own shop (ministry) will not fix it. Don't read into this I think this of all the offshoots. Many I know of took efforts to seek out those that were hurt. Others chose the other route- they went to do their own thing, and just wished the embarrassment associated with some people here would just go away. Some of them hurt so many folks, they couldn't remember them all. That's a real problem in itself.

I would not say flamed to be quite accurate. Or that a refocus on Christ is the wrong thing to do. What would HE want us to do? He is the one that taught to not bother giving an offering until things were reconciled between brethren. Then offer your offering.. In a lot of ways, what I see here many people seeking to be- reconciled. Here we all are. And TWI knows where we are at. The hand has been extended. So far, I see- no reconciliation. Just a hearty "go be warmed", "just get over it"..

You may read anger in these posts, but it is not there.

So, what did you do in God's name? Myself, I acted like a royal foot towards about ten of God's people. For this I have apologized, to those that I could. In my earlier days of great religious zeal, my actions in another circumstance very likely directly resulted in the separation of a man and wife. And my immediate and upper leadership approved of said action. I asked for forgiveness from one party, and they seemingly forgived. To the other, I have never seen again. This still bothers me to this day. When I REALLY came to my senses, it bothered me a whole heck of a lot more. One good thing though, nothing like this will happen again, on MY watch. One guy I threw out of twig, and still don't know if it was really the right thing to do. Haven't seen him for years, or know where he is. But I'd be the first to admit I was a royal foot in the situation. To these people, I would never say "just get over it, you got da word after all.." Never. I accept full responsability. Take what I did and muliply it by a hundred, or a couple thousand- I can't imagine what life must be like for loy. Personally, I think it must be prescription medicine that gets him through life day to day..

Sadly, that is the only way some people can live with themselves. I'd rather face the music than to go off and hide somewhere, artificially induced into thinking somehow everything will really be OK.

No, that was what was drilled OUT of us. We were "instructed" to NOT focus on people, but what they were calling "the word of God". Don't focus on little personality quirks. Fine by me. Don't focus on the color of the skin- I whole-heartedly agree. Don't focus on EVIL- let it run its course while I sit back and do more retemories- we've got a real problem. Evil was covered, or moved around. It wasn't a matter of focus, more of damage control Some situations, people had to get to the point that they almost died or worse before the focus was shifted in the proper direction. Some died. And it STILL didn't get very many people's attention.

How easy is it to blame the constant scrutiny on those who were wronged. They are just venemous, or full of bitterness, or not loving, or etc, etc, etc. It was YOUR FRIGGIN fault. Mine too- I did my share of unmitigated evil at times. Sometimes "I'm sorry" fixes it. Sometimes, it will never be fixed- and you have to live with it. Like it or not.

Well, you can't. What happened has happened. You did what you did. They did what they did. Like it or not, It is etched indelibly in history. And in the memory of living people. The good, the bad, and the ugly. If its bad enough, its etched in the history books for all the WORLD to behold. Why is it that those who performed some of the worst atrocities want those who it effected to "just get over it"? "It wasn't so bad. You actually got some good out of it.." You screw over thousands of people, or even just a few hundred or less, and it is not going to go away. Unlike what we were taught in the advanced class, God is not going to seal your past to the point that nobody can go back and get "the goods" on you. I think this was perhaps ole doc's fervent wish that HIS past wouldn't come back to bite him in the foot. That would violate the principle of reaping what you sow. My opinion of what "just get over it" really is saying: "Heck, I may have made a few mistakes.. but you people are embarrassing me. We can't change things, you should quit bothering me, just go away quietly, and live in peace.." Ptooie.

You screw enough people over, and thereby ruin your reputation- those kind of things are not going to go away. I don't think its people spewing venom, its just life.

Good for them. Glad to see something good happen. One thing though- if they were involved in Der Vey as an abusive leader in the past, I think they need to recognize that those effects of said actions are not going to go away. Like it or not.

It is hard to wake up someday, and discover what a grade A, unmitigated, foot that you have become.. it happened to me. I was an foot in training. And I was learning it- from the best. I could be pretty good at it.. even "professional" about it at times. Maybe that's why I can spot one a mile away now.

Either way, they are accountable. If not to God, maybe in a legal way if "something" happens to the guy. I pray not..

On a more serious side, this has actually been the most painful for me. No joke. Some crap I have corrected. Some I have been able to apologize for. Some, I may never get over, or get it fixed.

Let me assure you sir, I know my finger, and it is hardly "bony" :)-->

Sure I'm "thankful"- but this deep truth, good grief- its simple enough for a pre-schooler to understand. Not that that's a bad thing though. Says a great deal about the intellect of current leadership. They can't even get that one right.

Don't entirely agree, maybe partly. I think its more of like carrying around a forty pound club, patrolling an evil, pathetic, abusive thieving, lieing, cheating and stealing prairie dog town, just waiting for one of the lousy SOB's to stick its head up and promote just one bit more of their stinking, lifeless, useless, and actually harmful poison to the unwary good prairie dogs on the other hill. Hey, I know its not the dream job of a lifetime, but somebody has to do it.. Viceral hatred is just going a little bit too far. Maybe just a LITTLE bit.

Not true for all here. Some actually hold a glimmering of hope that the lousy SOB's will finally wake up someday and do something right.. So far it has been not so many- a couple of high leadership "defected" but that's about it. They need someone with enough love, balls, and an iron stomach to go in and clean the place out. A real takeover, a real coup.

I don't wonder. No need to- there really is nothing to wonder about. Nothing new, same boring, drab, lifeless stuff. Hasn't changed in years. Same methods of bait and switch, same abuse and intimidation, same stupid doctrine- perhaps more legalistic and controlling than their forefather, but nothing really new, at all. Same programs, different names. Just worse than the ones they had before. They NEED to change, and in a major way, and don't even know it. I would LIKE to see something NEW come out of that organization. Something good for a change. But I'm not holding my breath. I'll admit though, it is amusing every once in a while to watch them try to ressurect their boring, drab, lifeless stuff that hasn't changed in years into some kind of new light.. Kind of the philosophy of build a better mouse trap and they will come.. but the people of the world refuse to come flocking to their door. Wonder why.. Three vice prezzes instead of one- whoopie. Just another vain effort to "revitalize" their sad, sad religion. Big stinking deal. But its amusing. They really think this little move is gonna breath some fresh breath of life into that hopelessly dead carcass. I think the people that HAVE changed are here- and other places outside of that pathetic existence. Even in the offshoots.

But I am not trying to paint them all with the same brush either. J*hn L*nn's organization- disagree with them doctrinally, practically, or not, one thing I think could be said- they are VERY meticulous about where they get their material from. They document thoroughly. That's the impression I get from some of the stuff I have seen coming out of that organization. They still think they carried a gold mine of goodness out of der vey though..

Well, I have. But that was not even quite a suggestion, just a point. Some establish their heritage based on what they think they were taught by veepee- fine by me if that's what they want to do, but the body of doctrine they embrace was developed by a more than a handful of other people. Why continue the plagiarism, when you can have a fresh new start? Not a criticism, just a point.

Belle, when I went to visit my brother this year, the yellowtail flowed like water.. I think they have a two finger limit. If they hold up two fingers, and you can't count that high, you've probably had a LITTLE too much.